Confirmed with Link: MTL/WSH/CHI Lars Eller for two 2nd round picks. Two 2nd round picks for Andrew Shaw

[scrubadam]

History tells us that we needn't wait until October. We've waited until October every year since MB took over and it's been the same thing over and over.

If MB doesn't add forwards by October I will join you, but until then I don't see the point in posts acting like its point final here that MB is not going to do anything. Honestly its posted here over and over again a million times.

Two 2nds was a high, not astronomical, price to pay for a guy who the Blackhawks had no chance in retaining. And to be clear the two 2nds from WSH will almost certainly be lower than our lost picks this year, not to mention 1 and 2 years later, respectively. It's not a wash as far as the picks go.

2nd rounders are 2nd rounders. 5 or 10 spots up or down big deal. It's the ultimate nit pick for people looking for something to complain. We traded 2 2nds and got back 2 2nds. I trust MB and Timmins and they probably didn't like this years 2nd round. And 2017 and 2018 when we are picking 2 and 3 times fans on this board will be all happy that we have those picks.

I don't see this as an Eller vs Shaw trade. They aren't similar in playing style, positions etc. MT wanted DD, not Eller. MB wanted "Shawzie" and that's that.

It's been documented that MB has been trying to trade DD for like a year now. Bottom line was Eller got 2 2nds, while DD wasn't getting that. I don't doubt if WASH said we will give you 2 2nds for DD that MB would of done it.

MB did want Shaw. It's the player her identified and he got his man. To make sure he didn't lose his picks he moved Eller to get those picks back. Eller was a good player I would rather move DD than him, but he never lived up to the hype he had when we traded Halak. All those years ago and PMG was right that Eller is nothing more than a 3rd liner. He has no rings, he is 28 years old and is prone to go long times of no scoring. Outside of his size I don't think he really brought much to MTL and I don't think he was happy with how he was used. He isn't taking AG's or Pleks spot and he isn't a winger so its 3C and he has been on record of wanting more offensive opps.

 

[Miller Time]

Yet MB comes out and says he is not trading PK. Been saying that since the end of year presser. Yet still on this board we had a 40 page thread about how MB is trading PK and its all a ruse and dragging his name through the mud.

Sorry disease seems to be on this board. If people will go so far to misinterpret MB's words to fit a specific narrative don't know how I can not say most of the complaints on this aren't painted by a biased hate against MB.

If MB doesn't add another forward then complaints can be warranted, but like the PC thread lots of chicken littles running around right now.

Heard that same line this time last year...

Remove the chicken littles & the Koop aid drinkers, and what's left is a GM doubling down on an approach that has proven ineffective... Ignoring key need areas & prioritizing focus on undersized depth players.

We didn't need an upgrade in our bottom six. Spending more cap & draft assets to "fix" an area we were already loaded in, makes no sense beyond the reality that it's the only roster area our GM feels confident navigating... Everything else remains too "hard" or too "PlayStation" for him.

Sure, hold your breath that he finally shows the balls to do the difficult work of upgrading talent areas of the roster with anything better than a reclamation project or a steep overpayment, but to ignore the realities of his tenure & dismiss any critical analysis of his work as "chicken little" reeks of mass bias.


Shaw moves doesn't make the roster better, and made the organization worse off as far as $$(unless shaw takes less than 3.5) & draft building.

Unless I'm mistaken, the goal remains to get better and/or deeper talent depth, is it not?

 

[scrubadam]

Yeah, let's pay Shaw 4.5M instead for 4 years....Same as Pacioretty...
I hate Bickell too....but that's one year of Bickell and 7-8 of years of Teuvo at a lesser Price.

But why am i surprised...MB can't do no wrong for you.

Don't get me wrong, i know exactly what and who Shaw is and what he'll bring to the table and he is a great acquisition. That being said, if it's the only thing Bergevin does this summer and don't bring a top quality top 6 forward, then MB's summer will be a major fail in my book for the 5th summer in a row.

You don't tie 4M on a 3rd liner when your team is that weak on the top 6, especially when you already have about 10 3rd line players on this team.

MB had around 11,5M after dropping Eller.....will probably end up with 7.5M now...just make it harder to get that top 6 we need.
A luxury grinder wasn't on the top of MB's list of things to do.

Before we complain about Shaws contract lets see what he gets. If its a bad contract you can complain away. Remember all the PK is being traded 100% MB is a big idiot? Well where did that go? Bouillon joining our staff?

And I do agree if this is MB's only move than its bad. He will have about 7.5 mill remaining he is not going into the season with that much cap space. He will fill at least 6 million of that. 6 million is plenty to get a top 6 forward and still leave space for the TDL.

Maybe Shaw isn't at the top of the list, but so far no top6 have been traded. Eller, Shaw, Rykel and TT. These are the forwards traded so far. Should MB have traded his 1st for Rykel or TT?

Just lots of complaining about picking up a good player that cost us a few spots in the 2nd round and Lars Eller.

 

[scrubadam]

Guess we shoulda kept Gionta. Why didn't we trade for Kruger from Chicago as well? He won 2 cups. You're over valuing this cup thing. So he's automatically more important than Gallgher cause he won two cups?
Marcel Dionne never won a cup. Gilbert Perrault never won a cup. Shaw is more valuable than two HOF players cause he has two cups. Unreal. You're right there's nothing left to talk to you about till next Friday because everything Bergevin does for you is gold. It's gold jerry , it's gold

Did I say he was more important than Gallagher or HOF players. Nice strawman. You cant debate the points I made so you make up your own. Were you one of those who twisted MB's words to think he was for sure trading PK when he completely said the opposite over and over again?

It's a fact that Shaw has 2 rings. That experience is important. We were missing that last year. No one on our team has a ring. It's not the only reason we have Shaw but it adds to his value. I would rather have Shaw and his 2 rings and 24 years old than Eller and his 0 rings and 28 years old.

I have criticised MB plenty, but I am not going to bash over nothing. He got a decent player and it barely cost us anything. If he signs him to an outrageous contract or doesn't get another forward before October I have no reason to not complain. But I am not going to be a chicken little like most and complain about things that have not even happend yet. Just like everyone and the PK trade rumours where people were freaking on MB when he was very clear that he was not trading PK.

 

[Joannie9]

I'm so mad about the Shaw trade... We had two good second round picks and we decided to trade them for another ****ing 3rd line grinder... I've always respected Bergevin decisions but this one is a bad one... When he is gonna understand that we need some goal scorers to win ?? We can't win the cup with a grinding team...
Mitchell, Flynn, Danault, Brown, Matteau, Scott, Lessio, Byron and now Shaw. None of these players can crack 40 points...

 

[scrubadam]

Heard that same line this time last year...

Remove the chicken littles & the Koop aid drinkers, and what's left is a GM doubling down on an approach that has proven ineffective... Ignoring key need areas & prioritizing focus on undersized depth players.

We didn't need an upgrade in our bottom six. Spending more cap & draft assets to "fix" an area we were already loaded in, makes no sense beyond the reality that it's the only roster area our GM feels confident navigating... Everything else remains too "hard" or too "PlayStation" for him.

Sure, hold your breath that he finally shows the balls to do the difficult work of upgrading talent areas of the roster with anything better than a reclamation project or a steep overpayment, but to ignore the realities of his tenure & dismiss any critical analysis of his work as "chicken little" reeks of mass bias.


Shaw moves doesn't make the roster better, and made the organization worse off as far as $$(unless shaw takes less than 3.5) & draft building.

Unless I'm mistaken, the goal remains to get better and/or deeper talent depth, is it not?

I can't speak for others, but for me I have been critical of MB for what happend last summer. I will admit I liked the Kassian and Semin moves at the time, but once they went of the rails I have said last summer was a mistake for MB.

So if he truly did double down and doesn't add another player this summer then I will join the chorus of complaints. Right now I don't see any top6 moved yet. If someone wanted our 1st for a top6 I don't doubt MB would of made it happen. Was JVR or Eberle traded yesterday?

I wont dismiss critical analysis, but the post I reply to aren't critical analysis they are just bashing. Not to mention its hard to take these "chicken littles" seriously after reading the PC thread.

Is trading Eller for 2 2nds bad? Is getting Shaw bad?

So most of the complaints are really around that MB didn't get a top 6 yet or how much Shaw may get paid, 2 things that still have not happend yet. When they happen complain away. Until then lets focus on the actual trade that happend and for now I think it was a good move on MB's part.

 

[Milhouse40]

Before we complain about Shaws contract lets see what he gets. If its a bad contract you can complain away. Remember all the PK is being traded 100% MB is a big idiot? Well where did that go? Bouillon joining our staff?

And I do agree if this is MB's only move than its bad. He will have about 7.5 mill remaining he is not going into the season with that much cap space. He will fill at least 6 million of that. 6 million is plenty to get a top 6 forward and still leave space for the TDL.

Maybe Shaw isn't at the top of the list, but so far no top6 have been traded. Eller, Shaw, Rykel and TT. These are the forwards traded so far. Should MB have traded his 1st for Rykel or TT?

Just lots of complaining about picking up a good player that cost us a few spots in the 2nd round and Lars Eller.

6 millions but you need at least another 13 forward (in my calculation) and that will eat $650.000...then it's more around 5,4 millions left for that top forward. Not a plug, not a Perron, not a Weise...but a top forward.

Mb's saying:

1- We're building throught the draft = He just traded two of the best draft picks he had in years for a 3rd liner.
2- I don't like to overpay on july 1st = He's about to overpay for a 3rd liner and it's not even on the UFA
3- I don't make trades just to make trades = This is exactly what he did

Hawks had 6,6M available for 4 players (mostly depth signing)....if Shaw asked for 3-3.5M he would be a Hawks....so he wants more than that, unless the Hawks didn't think he was THAT good

TWO THINGS:
1- If Shaw gets 1$ more than Gallagher, then it's a bad trade, bad signing and letting Eller go was a mistake
2- If he don't sign a QUALITY top 6 forwards on the UFA, then this will be a very bad trade and signing.

We'll know about it in 7 days

 

[badbrains]

If MB doesn't add forwards by October I will join you, but until then I don't see the point in posts acting like its point final here that MB is not going to do anything. Honestly its posted here over and over again a million times.

I'll hold you to that. I've been waiting since 2012 for the GM to add permanent, long term scoring help and I'm still waiting...

2nd rounders are 2nd rounders. 5 or 10 spots up or down big deal. It's the ultimate nit pick for people looking for something to complain. We traded 2 2nds and got back 2 2nds. I trust MB and Timmins and they probably didn't like this years 2nd round. And 2017 and 2018 when we are picking 2 and 3 times fans on this board will be all happy that we have those picks.

There's a reason it's desirable to pick higher than the next team. That "nit picking" between 5 or 10 spots up or down can be the difference between a stud and a dud. Our prospect depth is weak at best and waiting an extra year or two to replenish it is not a luxury we can afford right now.

It's been documented that MB has been trying to trade DD for like a year now. Bottom line was Eller got 2 2nds, while DD wasn't getting that. I don't doubt if WASH said we will give you 2 2nds for DD that MB would of done it.

We all know DD has no trade value. Is that a reason to trade the better player? Is the team better with Eller or DD at center? I feel Eller is the stronger player. So admit the error and buyout DD. Cut your losses. MB has not shown he can admit mistakes so instead the team keeps the inferior player to appease the coach and media.

MB did want Shaw. It's the player her identified and he got his man. To make sure he didn't lose his picks he moved Eller to get those picks back. Eller was a good player I would rather move DD than him, but he never lived up to the hype he had when we traded Halak. All those years ago and PMG was right that Eller is nothing more than a 3rd liner. He has no rings, he is 28 years old and is prone to go long times of no scoring. Outside of his size I don't think he really brought much to MTL and I don't think he was happy with how he was used. He isn't taking AG's or Pleks spot and he isn't a winger so its 3C and he has been on record of wanting more offensive opps.

Eller was clearly disliked by the coach. In a new environment he may thrive, he may not. Time will tell.

No, he doesn't have any cup rings. So what? We had Gomez, Gionta, Gill, Moen, Ryder, there are more I'm sure, who all had cup rings. Didn't help much, did it?

 

[Jaynki]

Andrew Shaw is so much more than a third line grinder lol.

Of course he is not an offensive dynamo but he is still a ****ing decent middle 6 option who brings many intangibles.

Watch Blackhawks tape if you think Shaw is a third line grinder.

MB also had insane value for Eller and he now have +\- 10M.

We will attack UFA with a lot of cap space.

I agree tho that the price was high for Shaw but we have an abundance of B prospects and Shaw will add offense and sandpaper in our middle six.

 

[Lebowski]

That +/- 10 millions in cap space will shrink back to where it was once Shaw signs his deal, which according to rumors will be higher than Eller's AAV.

 

[Milhouse40]

Andrew Shaw is so much more than a third line grinder lol.

Of course he is not an offensive dynamo but he is still a ****ing decent middle 6 option who brings many intangibles.

Watch Blackhawks tape if you think Shaw is a third line grinder.

MB also had insane value for Eller and he now have +\- 10M.

We will attack UFA with a lot of cap space.

I agree tho that the price was high for Shaw but we have an abundance of B prospects and Shaw will add offense and sandpaper in our middle six.

You need to sign Shaw who's asking for 4+ millions with that 10 millions.
So MB won't have a lot of cap space of July 1st to @attack@ anything.....he threw that away by getting ANOTHER good middling top 6

 

[Miller Time]

I can't speak for others, but for me I have been critical of MB for what happend last summer. I will admit I liked the Kassian and Semin moves at the time, but once they went of the rails I have said last summer was a mistake for MB.

So if he truly did double down and doesn't add another player this summer then I will join the chorus of complaints. Right now I don't see any top6 moved yet. If someone wanted our 1st for a top6 I don't doubt MB would of made it happen. Was JVR or Eberle traded yesterday?

I wont dismiss critical analysis, but the post I reply to aren't critical analysis they are just bashing. Not to mention its hard to take these "chicken littles" seriously after reading the PC thread.

Is trading Eller for 2 2nds bad? Is getting Shaw bad?

So most of the complaints are really around that MB didn't get a top 6 yet or how much Shaw may get paid, 2 things that still have not happend yet. When they happen complain away. Until then lets focus on the actual trade that happend and for now I think it was a good move on MB's part.

- trades don't happen in a vacuum... It's not simply a question of value, it's also a matter of fit/need/cap impact.

- trading one of our best possession fwds, who is also our only C over 6' (and I'm not a bull on size for size sake), who is on a very resonable deal for what he provides & who has clearly been negatively impacted by how our coach uses him.... For 2 late (likely) 2nds.... Ok value, bad trade given our needs.

- trading 2 high 2nd round picks, for a bottom-6 winger (all intangible accolades aside, shaw was a sub15min player for the Hawks, sub 14min these recent PO's...) who is an RFA looking to cash in... Mediocre trade value, very bad fit for our needs/situation.

Is adding Shaw, the hockey player, a "bad" thing? Of course not. I'm sure I'll love watching him compete for us (provided his pay day doesn't take away from his fearless approach).

Did our GM do a good job of managing the assets at his disposal to improve the roster & organization? I don't think he has, even in the slightest. We are worse off today, current roster & flexibility moving forward) than we were yesterday morning. We need a GM capable of moving us in a net positive direction.

 

[Batmike]

i liked the Shaw trade. outside the top 15 this was a weak draft. Shaw is basically a better version of Dale Weise. Shaw will probably be overused but its to be expected. All depends on the contract he receives. from MB On a side note Eller's cap hit is 4.25 and 4.75 for the next two seasons.

 

[Jaynki]

You need to sign Shaw who's asking for 4+ millions with that 10 millions.
So MB won't have a lot of cap space of July 1st to @attack@ anything.....he threw that away by getting ANOTHER good middling top 6

I doubt Shaw get more than Gallagher.

I am concerned by his ask but i will wait and see.

I will criticise a contract that hold an AAV higher than 3.75M.

But anything equal or under that is a direct improvement to our line-up.

6M is enough for July 1 and there is still a week ahead of us. (We can exceed the cap)

I am also happy we dumped Eller and never expected that much value for him

 

[Lebowski]

i liked the Shaw trade. outside the top 15 this was a weak draft. Shaw is basically a better version of Dale Weise. Shaw will probably be overused but its to be expected. On a side note Eller's cap hit is 4.25 and 4.75 for the next two seasons.

You sure about that?

 

[Miller Time]

Andrew Shaw is so much more than a third line grinder lol.

Of course he is not an offensive dynamo but he is still a ****ing decent middle 6 option who brings many intangibles.

Watch Blackhawks tape if you think Shaw is a third line grinder.

MB also had insane value for Eller and he now have +\- 10M.

We will attack UFA with a lot of cap space.

I agree tho that the price was high for Shaw but we have an abundance of B prospects and Shaw will add offense and sandpaper in our middle six.

Will be amazed if Shaw can produce close to his career best while being centred by Danault next season...

Eller's production, when usage is considered, was very good/great for a bottom six fwd, shaw will be extremely hard pressed to match if used at all similarly.

Shaw played 13-15min, good for 7th-8th in ice time for Hawks. Bottom six minutes even despite getting time on top6 lines.

Does he rise to challenge/opportunity of bigger role with us... Or does he get exposed as a guy who looked better thanks to playing behind one of the best top-6 fwd groups in the league?

Time will tell...

 

[Mad Brills*]

stop signing tweeners to long term deals.

Shaw's an upgrade on eller, but not by much.

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

Who cares about the two second rounders we gave up this year, Bergevin probably checked with Timmins if he felt there was anyone he REALLY liked in that round before making the trade. We got solid picks in the 3rd and fourth rounds and now have 5 second rounders in the next two years, which we can use some in trades if needed.

I was a huge Eller fan, but getting two second rounders back for him was more than I expected. We needed change, we got a good middle six winger who works his ass off and that'll hopefully rub off on his teammates. It's not even July 1st yet, plenty of time for more changes.

 

[Batmike]

You sure about that?

http://www.generalfanager.com/players/1108

 

[tmac51]

http://www.generalfanager.com/players/1108

His capt hit is 3.5, he makes 4.25 and 4.75 but his actual cap hit is 3.5

 

[Rosso Scuderia]

http://www.generalfanager.com/players/1108

Eller cap hit is 3.5m.

 

[LaP]

You sure about that?

Surely not cause his cap hit is 3.5

 

[Lebowski]

http://www.generalfanager.com/players/1108

Ok, so you're sure then?

 

[Pengu]

If anyone can't hear the alarmbells on this probable contract I don't know what will....
A 3rd liner getting 4 million for 5-7 years is insane.
And his best year is less than 40 pts playing with some of the best players in the world....

 

[tazsub3]

I'll hold you to that. I've been waiting since 2012 for the GM to add permanent, long term scoring help and I'm still waiting...



There's a reason it's desirable to pick higher than the next team. That "nit picking" between 5 or 10 spots up or down can be the difference between a stud and a dud. Our prospect depth is weak at best and waiting an extra year or two to replenish it is not a luxury we can afford right now.



We all know DD has no trade value. Is that a reason to trade the better player? Is the team better with Eller or DD at center? I feel Eller is the stronger player. So admit the error and buyout DD. Cut your losses. MB has not shown he can admit mistakes so instead the team keeps the inferior player to appease the coach and media.



Eller was clearly disliked by the coach. In a new environment he may thrive, he may not. Time will tell.

No, he doesn't have any cup rings. So what? We had Gomez, Gionta, Gill, Moen, Ryder, there are more I'm sure, who all had cup rings. Didn't help much, did it?

Non of the players you stated were a 24 year old cup winner , not even in his prime.