Confirmed with Link: MTL/WSH/CHI Lars Eller for two 2nd round picks. Two 2nd round picks for Andrew Shaw

Status
Not open for further replies.

Miller Time

Registered User
Sep 16, 2004
23,040
15,383
Time will tell and I am not going to go out on a limb and say that Shaw will be a 25 G scorer, but the argument often on this board is give Eller more time and linemates and he will produce. So why is that held against one player but demanded for another?

?
Shaw got the kind of opportunities with the Hawks that Eller never got here. It's not a question of holding it against him, it's a matter of evaluating the respective players output in relative terms.

I'm simply suggesting that I don't believe shaw maintains his recent productivity if given the kind of roles Eller was relegated to, nor do I think he even matches what Eller produced.

I hope I'm wrong.
 

OnTheRun

/dev/null
May 17, 2014
12,171
10,674
?
Shaw got the kind of opportunities with the Hawks that Eller never got here. It's not a question of holding it against him, it's a matter of evaluating the respective players output in relative terms.

I'm simply suggesting that I don't believe shaw maintains his recent productivity if given the kind of roles Eller was relegated to, nor do I think he even matches what Eller produced.

I hope I'm wrong.

I doubt he will inherit Eller's role. He's more likely to get preferential treatment here, I won't be surprised at all if he become a cherry-picker a la Weise within 3 years.
 

Fish on The Sand

Untouchable
Feb 28, 2002
60,237
1,939
Canada
?
Shaw got the kind of opportunities with the Hawks that Eller never got here. It's not a question of holding it against him, it's a matter of evaluating the respective players output in relative terms.

I'm simply suggesting that I don't believe shaw maintains his recent productivity if given the kind of roles Eller was relegated to, nor do I think he even matches what Eller produced.

I hope I'm wrong.

There's a strong probability that Shaw will slot in as our 2nd line RW behind Gallagher. He's only 24 and has shown decent scoring ability thus far in primarily a checking role in Chicago. Getting 2nd line minutes could work out for him. If not, we know we are getting a strong 3rd line RW who is an improvement over Weise.
 

Sorinth

Registered User
Jan 18, 2013
11,041
5,535
Time will tell and I am not going to go out on a limb and say that Shaw will be a 25 G scorer, but the argument often on this board is give Eller more time and linemates and he will produce. So why is that held against one player but demanded for another?

The majority of Shaw's production has come from when he played with Kane/Toews. Shaw is also a regular on the PP. If all you are looking at is total points and assuming both guys did it in 3rd line roles you are very mistaken.
 

scrubadam

Registered User
Apr 10, 2016
12,438
1,904
Really ? Are you really asking me about MT and MB on PK ?

Lets see if you bring anything outside of your own interpretation.

MT benches PK (and Patches, but he blew the play) against Colorado for an individualistic play. That is PK, he makes individualistic plays because he is high end talent, coaches should encourage and develop it, but not MT.

So all coaches do that to players, doesn't mean he "hates" or even dislikes PK. He didn't like that certain play, not the player. In the end MT still gives PK all the minutes in all key situations.

MB would not pay PK the $ at arbitration, it took Molson to step in, so obviously MB thought it was too much.

So MB wanted to get the best deal he could from PK and played harball. MB has not come out since and said PK is overpaid. He has actually said he is going to be hab for a long time, its unrealisitc to trade him, he wont trade him, he is an elite defensmen and a big part of this team. I think that speaks stronger to your speculation that MB played hardball at negotiations so now he thinks he is overpaid. And a GM should think all his players are overpaid, he should be trying to get them on as low contracts as possible and never be satisfied with their performance.

You still have not provided any proof that MT or MB hate PK, or think he is overpaid today. This all your speculation based on your biases against MB and MT. MT benched or called out PK a few times which to you overrides the fact that he plays the most mins a night, in all situations, and is his go to guy. MB has only said good things about PK in all his pressers. [/QUOTE]

And I did not say MB was trading PK. The question was why there were 40 pages. Posters went into a tizz . If they trusted MB on PK, there would not have been 40 pages as it would have been dismissed as stupid. Also, as Habs fans we spaz out. And we have 20 years of reasons .

Clear enough for you ?

Thats the issue, fans spaz out and create scenarios in their head that don't exsist. MT/MB are out to get PK, or don't like him, or whatever. PK is a big part of the team isn't going anywhere and gets tons of minutes everything points to the opposite of what you said. But you latch onto the smallest things and blow them up because it fits with your opinion.

And in the end who cares if MT/MB like or don't like PK. For all we know they hate all the players, all the coaches, and each other. Doesn't really matter as long as they are professional. I don't need MT/MB to want to hang out with PK and drink some beers. He is treated like a professional by those 2 so whatever their personal feelings they don't effect the on ice play.

By the way, I am one of a minority who has not written MB off, but getting close. Still open to see what happens July 1.[/QUOTE]

Well I am with you on that in regards to MB having till this summer before I close up shop as well. I wont give him ony till July 1 because things can still happen, but if he doesn't get a forward before camp starts then I will call this summer a failure.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

76

Registered User
Jul 1, 2014
942
213
Canada
Shaw, who is now an amazing character guy and a much much better player than Eller according to MB followers is also...

somebody nobody cared about on the Habs board up until yesterday night...

wonder why ?

Shaw as always been a warrior and an amazing character guy. He was playing for another team and now we have him.

And it's not about being that much better of a hockey player than Eller, it's about the leadership and the character he brings, which is day and night vs Eller. That's how I think we have to judge the impact of these trades. That's mainly how he will be better to this team than Eller. And that's very important, considering the lack of leadership this room has. Shaw will bring others to the battle, as Bergevin said.
 

scrubadam

Registered User
Apr 10, 2016
12,438
1,904
?
Shaw got the kind of opportunities with the Hawks that Eller never got here. It's not a question of holding it against him, it's a matter of evaluating the respective players output in relative terms.

I'm simply suggesting that I don't believe shaw maintains his recent productivity if given the kind of roles Eller was relegated to, nor do I think he even matches what Eller produced.

I hope I'm wrong.

Im not expecting Shaw to be our top 6 savior, but I think he can give us equal or better to what Eller brought and would bring.

And as much as he benefited from those players, Joe Q must have saw something in him to put him with them. Q aint MT here he has won 3 cups I think he knows what he is doing with his players.
 

Hope Of Glory

Registered User
May 24, 2009
4,975
2,387
North Shore
There's a strong probability that Shaw will slot in as our 2nd line RW behind Gallagher. He's only 24 and has shown decent scoring ability thus far in primarily a checking role in Chicago. Getting 2nd line minutes could work out for him. If not, we know we are getting a strong 3rd line RW who is an improvement over Weise.

Thing is, apparently the Hawks tried him in their top 6 and he couldn't keep up. He was in way over his head playing with skilled guys.

I'm not saying it's impossible that he improves but he was a never a big point producer at any level and couldn't produce with top end talent like the Hawks have. It seems unlikely to me he'll become more than he is now.
 

Fish on The Sand

Untouchable
Feb 28, 2002
60,237
1,939
Canada
Thing is, apparently the Hawks tried him in their top 6 and he couldn't keep up. He was in way over his head playing with skilled guys.

I'm not saying it's impossible that he improves but he was a never a big point producer at any level and couldn't produce with top end talent like the Hawks have. It seems unlikely to me he'll become more than he is now.

I totally allow for the possibility that he's a "what you see is what you get" player and that's totally fair. Even in that case he gives quality production on the 3rd line. I would however take issue to signing him for 6/7 years. Anything over 4 seems excessive to me.
 

76

Registered User
Jul 1, 2014
942
213
Canada
stop signing tweeners to long term deals.

Shaw's an upgrade on eller, but not by much.

Based on what? Point production? Possession numbers?
Because in terms of character and leadership, there are not on the same planet. That's the difference between Shaw and Eller, and it's a huge one.
 

Hope Of Glory

Registered User
May 24, 2009
4,975
2,387
North Shore
I totally allow for the possibility that he's a "what you see is what you get" player and that's totally fair. Even in that case he gives quality production on the 3rd line. I would however take issue to signing him for 6/7 years. Anything over 4 seems excessive to me.

Agreed. More than 4 years for a complimentary player si a lot. But if Bergevin doesn't have any problem giving 4th liners 3 years deal, it wouldn't surprise me at all to see Shaw inked for 5-6 years. At least he's fairly young and that could help to keep his AAV down but still. You gotta keep that kind of guy hungry.
 

scrubadam

Registered User
Apr 10, 2016
12,438
1,904
I totally allow for the possibility that he's a "what you see is what you get" player and that's totally fair. Even in that case he gives quality production on the 3rd line. I would however take issue to signing him for 6/7 years. Anything over 4 seems excessive to me.

If we go 6 but its 20 million or less it would be a good deal, basically two contracts in one.

If its 6 and more than 20 million then I would agree it would be excessive.
 

Sorinth

Registered User
Jan 18, 2013
11,041
5,535
I totally allow for the possibility that he's a "what you see is what you get" player and that's totally fair. Even in that case he gives quality production on the 3rd line. I would however take issue to signing him for 6/7 years. Anything over 4 seems excessive to me.

Does he?

Last season he spent just over 50% of his season along side Toews. Half of his 34 points last season either Kane or Toews contributed. And if we include Hossa/Panarin it's 22 of his 34 points.
 

CristianoRonaldo

Registered User
Apr 7, 2014
19,754
16,169
In your head
Who cares about the two second rounders we gave up this year, Bergevin probably checked with Timmins if he felt there was anyone he REALLY liked in that round before making the trade. We got solid picks in the 3rd and fourth rounds and now have 5 second rounders in the next two years, which we can use some in trades if needed.

I was a huge Eller fan, but getting two second rounders back for him was more than I expected. We needed change, we got a good middle six winger who works his ass off and that'll hopefully rub off on his teammates. It's not even July 1st yet, plenty of time for more changes.

How can he know that when he made the trade at the start of the draft ?
 

Hoople

Registered User
Mar 7, 2011
16,193
121
I'm just happy braindead Eller is gone. Shaw is younger and better at everything.

In all my years of being a Habs fan, Eller was one of the best at skating the puck in from the blue line, keeping the puck as he skated behind the net and then losing the puck as he skated back toward the blue line.

He was a joy to watch as he kept the puck on his stick before turning it over.
 

CanadienShark

Registered User
Dec 18, 2012
37,496
10,768
Shaw, who is now an amazing character guy and a much much better player than Eller according to MB followers is also...

somebody nobody cared about on the Habs board up until yesterday night...

wonder why ?

You so sure about that?

Lots of interest in Shaw. He'd anchor our 3rd line for the next half a decade at the very least. We'd love him similar to how we love Gallagher. Not to that extent, but he's the kind of guy you hate to play against, but love to have on your side.
 

Thebesthockey

Registered User
Aug 6, 2013
3,921
882
MB only had contacts in hawks and ducks organization
this is what happens when you hire someone with 0 track record

he negociates for leftovers
 

Hoople

Registered User
Mar 7, 2011
16,193
121
The Halak trade is now officially dead.

Or do we credit Gauthier for every goal Shaw will score as a Hab?
 

Spearmint Rhino

Registered User
Sep 17, 2013
8,919
8,643
OK have had some time to think about the trades, happy with Shaw as he was on my wish list for adds this offseason and no problem trading Eller, he's not a winger and doesn't have the IQ to use his line mates so he's nothing more than an ok defensive C with decent possession numbers that doesn't translate to offensive chances. The price is relative, both overpayments in my book, would've been nice to make it a 3-way with this years 2nds or if we could've kept at least one of them but maybe MB wants to save them for a rainy day for picking up rentals

Up next July 1st, need 2 legit Top 6 Wingers otherwise we are still no better than what we went into 2015 with
 

WG

Registered User
Sep 9, 2008
1,699
1,498
So less money than the player he was basically traded for and it's just tolerable?

Again. How many times have we heard Eller was overpaid for what he brought and that divesting Eller (and others) would allow the team to make a run at actual top 6 players.

Couple that with the gathering idea that Shaw is going to be signed for six years, then yes. Two years of Eller vs. six years of Shaw at Eller's AAV is probably not long term beneficial. If we are going to give a 30-ish point forward term I'd like the AAV to at least look like a bit of bargain.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad