Most Overrated Player by The Hockey Media?

[LeBlondeDemon10]

Getting off topic here, but has anyone ever noticed discrepancies between how Hockey Reference and NHL.com list the primary and secondary assists? I would assume that the NHL site's are official and are almost entirely correct, but I've noticed that Hockey Ref's have several errors.

(I was watching a 1986-87 game between Montreal and Edmonton a couple of months ago, and there was a play where Steve Smith passed the puck about 1 meter to Gretzky along the boards, Gretzky made a couple of moves and threw an amazing 25-foot pass across the goal-mouth to Muni, who scored... and Hockey Ref lists Gretzky as the secondary assist and Smith as the primary.)

I have found this same thing on many sites. I don't think they can be trusted.

 

[jcs0218]

Rick Nash, for many years, was given a very high standing in the media. His lack of production being pinned on being on a bad team. “If he ever goes to a good team” well, he did and got worse. There is one benefit to being the only good offensive player on a team - everyone gives you the puck, especially on the PP. Olli Jokinen had this treatment in Florida - only nobody said he was one of the best in the league.

I have been criticized on the main boards for saying this.

But the same things you always heard about Rick Nash are the same things you are hearing about Jack Eichel now.

Jack Eichel has a pretty large reputation for someone who has only ever reached 80 points once during his career, when other players have been reaching 90-120 (sometimes more than once) during the same time period.

Jack Eichel's best season, he finished behind Sean Monahan and Brent Burns (a defenseman) in scoring.

He is a good player but is over-rated by media and fans, based on the same "what if he played a good team" that followed Rick Nash around.

 

[The Panther]

I have been criticized on the main boards for saying this.

But the same things you always heard about Rick Nash are the same things you are hearing about Jack Eichel now.

Jack Eichel has a pretty large reputation for someone who has only ever reached 80 points once during his career, when other players have been reaching 90-120 (sometimes more than once) during the same time period.

Jack Eichel's best season, he finished behind Sean Monahan and Brent Burns (a defenseman) in scoring.

He is a good player but is over-rated by media and fans, based on the same "what if he played a good team" that followed Rick Nash around.

That's kind of how I feel, too. Also, learning from Taylor Hall to put your ego before the team doesn't really help.

 

[jcs0218]

Niedermayer never posted the statistics you would expect from someone with his skating ability and offensive talent.

He was inconsistent for much of his career from an offensive standpoint, and this can sometimes get overlooked as people put focus on the fact that he was a consistent winner.

I will say this about him though. I never really saw him make mistakes. And whenever he was on a rare occasion caught out of position, his awesome skating allowed him to always recover.

Even with Stevens, you would see him out of position more than Niedermayer due to taking higher level risks to make the big hit.

I don't rank Niedermayer on the Chelios or Robinson tier.

But he is on the Stevens, MacInnis, Leetch, etc. tier.

 

[Dingo]

I have been criticized on the main boards for saying this.

But the same things you always heard about Rick Nash are the same things you are hearing about Jack Eichel now.

Jack Eichel has a pretty large reputation for someone who has only ever reached 80 points once during his career, when other players have been reaching 90-120 (sometimes more than once) during the same time period.

Jack Eichel's best season, he finished behind Sean Monahan and Brent Burns (a defenseman) in scoring.

He is a good player but is over-rated by media and fans, based on the same "what if he played a good team" that followed Rick Nash around.

i guess you are right. Ive always had Eichel much higher than Nash, but ive been expecting him to explode and, really he hasnt. Last year was quite strong, though. He has one more top ten in points than Nash already... 1-0, lol. Nash has that shared Rocket and no other top tens in goals.

One thing I forgot is how badly Nash produced in the playoffs and internationally - 6 points (2 goals) in 17 Olympic games!

Ya, maybe Eichel wont turn out much better. Im a little biased as he was good for me in a pool last year.

 

[jcs0218]

i guess you are right. Ive always had Eichel much higher than Nash, but ive been expecting him to explode and, really he hasnt. Last year was quite strong, though. He has one more top ten in points than Nash already... 1-0, lol. Nash has that shared Rocket and no other top tens in goals.

One thing I forgot is how badly Nash produced in the playoffs and internationally - 6 points (2 goals) in 17 Olympic games!

Ya, maybe Eichel wont turn out much better. Im a little biased as he was good for me in a pool last year.

Nash's role in 2010 and 2014 Olympics was a pure checker.

He was dominant away from the puck.

 

[Black Gold Extractor]

Nash's role in 2010 and 2014 Olympics was a pure checker.

He was dominant away from the puck.

In 2006, the medians for Canada's 13 forwards were 3 points and +1. Nash had 1 point and was -2, so he performed well below expectation that year.

In 2010, the medians for Canada's 13 forwards were 5 points and +2. Nash matched the median 5 points but was only +1, so he was -1 relative to expectation.

In 2014, the medians for Canada's 14 forwards were 1.5 points and +2.5. Nash had 1 point and was +1, so he was -1.5 relative to expectation.

Of course, Team Canada outscored its opponents 35-16 and 17-3 in the latter two respective tournaments, so the "expectation" is quite high. It's safe to say that everyone on those teams were dominant on both sides of the puck.

 

[VictoriaJetsFan]

I'm ready to be beaten now, but is not Datsyuk sometimes overrated on this forum?
I think it is described in several threads that Datsyuk is Detroit's best player ever, or Russia's best or ....... The best ever defensively or the most technical ever?
I have a hard time seeing that greatness in Pavel D.

Depends on what you mean by greatness I guess.

I think Datsyuk's highlights are so impressive its easy to forget his numbers never blew you away...but I loved watching him...he was special.

He was not Russia's best player...you would think that would go to Fetisov or larionov...until Ovechkin breaks the goal scoring record.

 

[jcs0218]

In 2006, the medians for Canada's 13 forwards were 3 points and +1. Nash had 1 point and was -2, so he performed well below expectation that year.

In 2010, the medians for Canada's 13 forwards were 5 points and +2. Nash matched the median 5 points but was only +1, so he was -1 relative to expectation.

In 2014, the medians for Canada's 14 forwards were 1.5 points and +2.5. Nash had 1 point and was +1, so he was -1.5 relative to expectation.

Of course, Team Canada outscored its opponents 35-16 and 17-3 in the latter two respective tournaments, so the "expectation" is quite high. It's safe to say that everyone on those teams were dominant on both sides of the puck.

Nash may have suffered plus-minus, but he was also against the other team's top line in a lot of games.

He was Canada's prime shut-down winger during 2010 and 2014.

 

[Double Dion]

I'd say it's a toss up between Eichel and Laine. Both ridiculously overrated players.

 

[ShelbyZ]

Can it be someone that was super overrated for a short period of time rather than their whole career, like Bill Ranford for the first half of the 90's?

He wins a Cup and a Conn Smythe as a 23YO. Some less than stellar years with the Oilers that followed were supplemented by good looking international appearances for team Canada, which led the hockey media to become convinced that he was a top goalie being held back by a bad Oilers team.

In his last couple of years in Edmonton, anytime it's reported or speculated a team might need a starting goalie, Ranford is always rumored to be the #1 target with a value that should net some kings ransom for the Oilers (IIRC Shanahan AND Joseph from the Blues, a huge package from the Wings that would contain both Primeau AND Osgood, a package with Redden and Muller from the Islanders, a package around Owen Nolan and Thibault from Colorado, something huge from the Flyers, etc. etc.)

I was reading some old articles from around then and stumbled upon some of the Ranford hype:

-An article about how Mike Vernon is the Wings Achilles heel going into the 1995 Finals. The article mentioned something about how Vernon isn't anywhere near the level of the top goalies in the league which it lists as Hasek, Roy, Belfour, Ranford, Felix Potvin, and now Brodeur.

-Another one touched on Ranford's arbitration award given in the '95 offseason, where a 1 year $3M deal made him the 2nd highest paid goalie behind Roy. The article actually makes mention that statistically he was the 40th or 41st best goalie in the NHL the previous season, but then makes sure to point out that it was 100% the rest of the Oilers fault.

I also looked up some articles about his trade to Tampa and was surprised to find the hype train was still alive at that point. He was acquired for a 2nd and 3rd and pitched as a legit #1 goalie to finally replace the perpetually injured Daren Puppa. His tenure as a back up with the Caps the previous year was explained away as simply a couple of Ranford injuries allowing Kolzig to go on a hot streak that lasted the whole season.

Another candidate for overrated for a short period might be Jim Carey.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Patprick Whaaaa - Alex Ovechkin

Roy? The guy with 3 Conne Smythe. Sure.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Depends on what you mean by greatness I guess.

I think Datsyuk's highlights are so impressive its easy to forget his numbers never blew you away...but I loved watching him...he was special.

He was not Russia's best player...you would think that would go to Fetisov or larionov...until Ovechkin breaks the goal scoring record.

Datsyuk definitely up there for HF Most Overrated. 4th liner on the 02 Wings Cup winner and aside from that just one Cup win on stacked teams his whole career. Under 1000 career points and under a PPG career wise, only 314 career goals. Production dipped fairly considerably in the postseason.

Great prime but overall career is very overrated.

 

[Czech Your Math]

Keep in mind that San Jose was 8-16 when they traded for Thornton and looked dead in the water, and were 2nd last in the Western Conference. They were on a 10-game losing streak at the time the trade was made, and then won Thornton's first 6 games. There has never been a more obvious case of a mid-season acquisition completely turning around/saving a team's season.

When you combine that with the fact that Thornton's actual season was slightly better than Jagr's, I completely understand why the selection was made.

And again, since the 1960s, the Hart is generally a 'Most Outstanding Player' trophy. The lines here are really blurred, and Thornton clearly was the Most Outstanding Player that season. And when the Most Outstanding Player turned around a team the way he did, it makes sense.

Thornton certainly had a case, but I wouldn't say he was "clearly the most outstanding player that season." His edge was winning the Ross by two points, but he also had two extra available games due to the trade.
------------
I'd say Rocket Richard is one of the overrated players, because he was best during and immediately following WWII. After 1947, and until 1956, his playoff performance was not at all spectacular, given the weaker defensive teams he faced. 1951 was an exception, and then he had some good playoffs in late '50s with Beliveau on board.

I'd guess most of the players, esp. scorers, that had peaks/primes in the '70s expansion era are overrated. The much lower average quality, unbalanced and diluted league was a huge advantage for the O6 teams until at least the mid-70s, and still a large advantage for the O6 teams and better expansion teams in the late 70s.

 

[ted2019]

Cam Neely.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Niedermayer never posted the statistics you would expect from someone with his skating ability and offensive talent.

He was inconsistent for much of his career from an offensive standpoint, and this can sometimes get overlooked as people put focus on the fact that he was a consistent winner.

I will say this about him though. I never really saw him make mistakes. And whenever he was on a rare occasion caught out of position, his awesome skating allowed him to always recover.

Even with Stevens, you would see him out of position more than Niedermayer due to taking higher level risks to make the big hit.

I don't rank Niedermayer on the Chelios or Robinson tier.

But he is on the Stevens, MacInnis, Leetch, etc. tier.

From what I remember of Niedermayer I dont think he had an elite shot. That might have been partly why he never put up bigger numbers?

 

[buffalowing88]

Niedermayer never posted the statistics you would expect from someone with his skating ability and offensive talent.

He was inconsistent for much of his career from an offensive standpoint, and this can sometimes get overlooked as people put focus on the fact that he was a consistent winner.

I will say this about him though. I never really saw him make mistakes. And whenever he was on a rare occasion caught out of position, his awesome skating allowed him to always recover.

Even with Stevens, you would see him out of position more than Niedermayer due to taking higher level risks to make the big hit.

I don't rank Niedermayer on the Chelios or Robinson tier.

But he is on the Stevens, MacInnis, Leetch, etc. tier.

Also a guy who would embellish a bit and then dish out a dirty play here or there. Never got much attention, but he rubbed me the wrong way. There's a couple really highly regarded guys from that era who jeopardized players careers with malicious plays that I can't look at the same anymore. Niedermayer is up there. Guerin is an absolute scumbag who almost killed a minor leaguer just trying to get a spot, so he is too. Shane Doan gets a lot of respect on here but boy was he overrated by the end. Guy toed the line much more than Dustin Brown, but Brown came a decade after and got all the attention.

 

[Davenport]

Grant Fuhr

 

[The Panther]

Grant Fuhr

I would say Fuhr was a little over-rated... but not a lot. I mean, if you end up with a Canada Cup and four Stanley Cups, you probably deserve quite a lot of credit.

The media hype over him in 1987-88 did go a bit out of control, though.

I would have liked to have seen Fuhr's stat-results if he had played basically ANY of his career on defence-first clubs. He played on nothing but firewagon teams until 1995-96 with St. Louis, when he suddenly looked great again.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Cam Neely.

The guy that scored 50 goals in 44 games?

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Kucherov, he's been labeled by many a future HOF after two great years. Yes he might do it but considering how long it took him to become a ppg player he's going to have to stay around for a while and stop choking in the playoffs to even come close to where the media puts him.

This post certainly didn't age well.

 

[GMR]

Datsyuk definitely up there for HF Most Overrated. 4th liner on the 02 Wings Cup winner and aside from that just one Cup win on stacked teams his whole career. Under 1000 career points and under a PPG career wise, only 314 career goals. Production dipped fairly considerably in the postseason.

Great prime but overall career is very overrated.

If you ignore all his defensive contributions, then you're correct. However, two-way play was a big part of his popularity with the media. He's one of the best defensive forwards to play in the NHL.

 

[Iapyi]

Roy? The guy with 3 Conne Smythe. Sure.

What's a Conne Smythe?

 

[Bear of Bad News]

What's a Conne Smythe?

He spelled it better than your spelling in the post he was responding to.

 

[The Kingslayer]

What's a Conne Smythe?

You know what I meant short pants.