MadLuke
Registered User
- Jan 18, 2011
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How about Boucher with the longest shutout streak of all time?
If this mislead someone to thing that Boucher had a great career, yes, but do not see it.
How about Boucher with the longest shutout streak of all time?
Does being the record-holder of a statistic that wasn't always kept count? If so, Thomas' single season SV% record.
All of Brodeur's records.
someone tell me how brodeur is not a top player???
im not saying he's the best goalie ever, but hes put up great numbers and has had a relatively healthy career...being able to play the amount of minutes in the nhl like that is pretty impressive
Also Roy played with a good if not better team at the same time without winning more game so, if you do not consider number 1 and 2 in the winning record misleading I really don't see it.
But the difference is that Roy was never utilized by his team the same way Brodeur was. Roy eclipsed 65 games twice; Brodeur has done so thirteen times. In fact, no other goalie has ever been utilized by his team to the extent that Brodeur has.
In fact, no other goalie has ever been utilized by his team to the extent that Brodeur has.
Well just to show you Brodeur was for the most part an elite goalie his whole career:
2nd team all-star ('97, '98, '06, '08)
1st team all-star ('03, '04, '07)
Vezina finishes (top 3 finishes only): 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3
Considering Glenn Hall is the only goalie with more year end all-star selections I think its safe to say Brodeur did consistently great over the bulk of his career. You don't get 200 more wins than every other goalie (minus Roy) by playing on the "right team". Its obvious to me Brodeur is far from a compiler and it shouldn't shock anyone that he rests atop many lists
Well just to show you Brodeur was for the most part an elite goalie his whole career:
2nd team all-star ('97, '98, '06, '08)
1st team all-star ('03, '04, '07)
Vezina finishes (top 3 finishes only): 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3
To be fair I think at least a few of these selections/vezinas weren't diserved.
He definitely diserved the 2007 and 2008 Vezina, no question about it.
He definitely diserved the 2nd All-Star in 97, and somewhat diserved it in 98.
But in 2003 he didn't diserve the Vezina or even a 2nd All-Star selection. It could have went to Vokoun, Luongo, Kolzig, Roy, Giguere, Belfour. He won solely because of his 41 wins and 9 shutouts, which are team dependent stats.
In 2004 Luongo got flat out robbed. Brodeur should have gotten then 2nd All-Star.
In 2006 Luongo should've won the 2nd All-Star as well.
So added up that would be 2 x 1st team All-Star (07 and 08) and 2 x 2nd team All-Star (97 and 98). I think the voters were biased towards wins and shutouts which are not individual stats. Compare Brodeur's save percentage finishes to Roy and he's really not in the same league, yet he has more All-Star selections and Vezinas.
More valuable to his team? Almost certainly. Better overall performance? I don't think so.
I haven't seen any convincing evidence that playing lots of games affects goaltender performance, so much of the difference was that Thomas was simply played less.
I mean, this is exactly what the most win records is all about ? Being the most use goalie by a good team in the history.
Exactly. If people think "most wins = best goalie ever," then the record is misleading them. But if they recognize it for what it is: A great team relied on Brodeur more than any other goalie in history and he did his part in helping them win, then it is not.
But in 2003 he didn't diserve the Vezina or even a 2nd All-Star selection. It could have went to Vokoun, Luongo, Kolzig, Roy, Giguere, Belfour. He won solely because of his 41 wins and 9 shutouts, which are team dependent stats.
In 2004 Luongo got flat out robbed. Brodeur should have gotten then 2nd All-Star.
In 2006 Luongo should've won the 2nd All-Star as well.
So added up that would be 2 x 1st team All-Star (07 and 08) and 2 x 2nd team All-Star (97 and 98). I think the voters were biased towards wins and shutouts which are not individual stats. Compare Brodeur's save percentage finishes to Roy and he's really not in the same league, yet he has more All-Star selections and Vezinas.
Francis being 4th in all-time scoring. He has went from very underrated to overrated because of this IMO.
How about the fact that if playing lots of games did not affect goaltender performance, every NHL coach would play his starting goaltender all 82 games?
Exactly. If people think "most wins = best goalie ever," then the record is misleading them. But if they recognize it for what it is: A great team relied on Brodeur more than any other goalie in history and he did his part in helping them win, then it is not.
Exactly. If people think "most wins = best goalie ever," then the record is misleading them. But if they recognize it for what it is: A great team relied on Brodeur more than any other goalie in history and he did his part in helping them win, then it is not.
Brodeur was a Hart trophy finalist in 2003, as well, and he received more 1st place votes than Markus Naslund, finishing barely behind Naslund in overall voting. So it seems the writers and GMs agreed. Brodeur was recognized for being the backbone of the 2nd best team in the Eastern Conference. Scott Stevens was on the visible decline, Niedermayer hadn't emerged yet, and the team's leading scoring had a whopping 57 points. Brodeur was their regular season MVP by far.
Even though many posters here do not value a player's contribution to team success, the awards voters still do.
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Brodeur had a .914 SP in 2003, not in the top 10. His GA was 2.02, good for 4th.
Turco's numbers were .932 and 1.72. That's a huge difference in both categories.
Corey Schwab, the Devils backup, played in 11 games all season, starting 9. How do you stay sharp with so little game action, right?
His numbers were .933 and 1.47. A whopping difference indeed.
Broduer played 73 games. That's apparently the key.