Morgan Rielly

FlareKnight

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Jun 26, 2006
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Alberta
Leaf nation has more fans in some away rinks than home fans and yet we couldn't get our guy into the All-Star? Weak.
Yeah, that's just sad. Maybe this fanbase is more casual than we imagined. Spending less than a minute per day voting a few times was clearly way too much.

It's fine for Rielly to get the rest. Though it is too bad that after such a successful first half of the season that he can't even get voted in. At least it doesn't take away from how good he's been. Just another reminder how stupid the setup for this 'event' is.
 
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LeafsNation75

Registered User
Jan 15, 2010
37,975
12,506
Toronto, Ontario
Yeah, that's just sad. Maybe this fanbase is more casual than we imagined. Spending less than a minute per day voting a few times was clearly way too much.

It's fine for Rielly to get the rest. Though it is too bad that after such a successful first half of the season that he can't even get voted in. At least it doesn't take away from how good he's been. Just another reminder how stupid the setup for this 'event' is.
I voted 10x everyday for Rielly from the moment this vote was announced.
 

Kamiccolo

Truly wonderful, the mind of a child is.
Aug 30, 2011
26,828
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Yeah, that's just sad. Maybe this fanbase is more casual than we imagined. Spending less than a minute per day voting a few times was clearly way too much.

It's fine for Rielly to get the rest. Though it is too bad that after such a successful first half of the season that he can't even get voted in. At least it doesn't take away from how good he's been. Just another reminder how stupid the setup for this 'event' is.

I come away with a different conclusion. I think a lot of fans had a "there are so many people voting that my vote makes no difference" attitude and assumed that Leafs nation will be Leafs nation and get him in.

I think most fans assumed that he'd be a shoe in and didn't even bother voting.
 

Ryan Michaels

Registered User
Mar 21, 2017
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That's fair, the offensive outputs of guys who don't face top competition and get offensive usage should be discounted accordingly when the votes are taking place though too. I don't think that would stop Karlsson from consideration when he breaks 80pts in a given year either but it's less impressive than a guy who does the same in tougher usage

It should be given consideration of course but not weighted so heavily to discount what Karlsson's been doing. Also perhaps Zeke only meant that Karlsson shouldn't be considered this year? Because his usage in San Jose is way softer than anything he had in Ottawa, its disingenuous to suggest that he is some sort of career-sheltered player and it leans into an ancient "4th forward" narrative that should've long been put to bed.

As for Rielly although he has taken more difficult usage than Karlsson this season, if we had Vlasic on our side I doubt this would even be the case, he does not have the most difficult usage on the team. Behind Hainsey and Zaistev by any metric and pretty on point with Gardiner, somehow despite being middle of the pack for usage on his team and playing less time than either Burns or Karlsson they are subject to criticism for taking on sub par players and Rielly lauded for his workload? Unless we're playing against all star teams every game and the Sharks are taking on the Oilers something smells fishy.

Rielly's having a terrific season and deserves to be in the top defensmen discussion at least of the year so far, but we don't need to try and cut giants off at the knees to show everyone how tall Rielly is.
 

Randy Randerson

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Jul 28, 2016
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It should be given consideration of course but not weighted so heavily to discount what Karlsson's been doing. Also perhaps Zeke only meant that Karlsson shouldn't be considered this year? Because his usage in San Jose is way softer than anything he had in Ottawa, its disingenuous to suggest that he is some sort of career-sheltered player and it leans into an ancient "4th forward" narrative that should've long been put to bed.

As for Rielly although he has taken more difficult usage than Karlsson this season, if we had Vlasic on our side I doubt this would even be the case, he does not have the most difficult usage on the team. Behind Hainsey and Zaistev by any metric and pretty on point with Gardiner, somehow despite being middle of the pack for usage on his team and playing less time than either Burns or Karlsson they are subject to criticism for taking on sub par players and Rielly lauded for his workload? Unless we're playing against all star teams every game and the Sharks are taking on the Oilers something smells fishy.

Rielly's having a terrific season and deserves to be in the top defensmen discussion at least of the year so far, but we don't need to try and cut giants off at the knees to show everyone how tall Rielly is.
I think SJ throws Vlasic and Braun to the wolves to try to get Karlsson and Burns into the offensive zone as much as possible. The whole SJ team's CF%.QoC will be negatively skewed a bit because SJ is so possession dominant too so facing a lot of divisional opponents that play against them often will start to show up in the metrics and make the competition look worse than it probably is by those metrics. I'm showing Rielly right behind Hainsey for the top QoC on the team by toi%, CF% and x.GF%

I completely agree that Rielly should be there right now, I'm just guessing that his production falls off a bit as the luck normalizes and he'll fall out of Norris consideration and land in the vicinity of (a meager) 70ish points

I can't speak for exactly what zeke meant by what he said re: Karlsson so I'll let him respond there
 

TheCLAM

Registered User
Oct 11, 2012
3,945
149
Niagara Falls
the 1 rep per team is dumb.. best players should be in across the board

They might as well just go up to Parry Sound and have a pond hockey tourney every year
 

Marshy

Behind Enemy Lines
Oct 3, 2007
8,145
9,201
Ottawa
So the Atlantic Division team has only 2 defenscemen? The NHL has really pooped the bed on the all star format.



put a traffic cone in the nets and that opens up 4 more forward spots...or turn the nets around you gotta bank it in.
 

Joey Hoser

Registered User
Jan 8, 2008
14,232
4,143
Guelph
I come away with a different conclusion. I think a lot of fans had a "there are so many people voting that my vote makes no difference" attitude and assumed that Leafs nation will be Leafs nation and get him in.

I think most fans assumed that he'd be a shoe in and didn't even bother voting.

I didn't vote because I think the All-Star game is lame and I don't care.
 
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93LEAFS

Registered User
Nov 7, 2009
33,959
21,029
Toronto
So how do explain Auston Matthews getting voted as the Atlantic Division captain? How many of those votes were from Leafs fans and fans of other teams around the league?
Well, we supported Matthews (and he has better league-wide recognition). I don't see how league-wide Jeff Skinner won. It sounds like Buffalo fans voted, and weren't apathetic saying "we need rest." Its good to show support to our players by sending them to stuff like this, and it shows strong support from the fan base.
 

tmlms13

Registered User
Apr 11, 2012
6,617
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Waterloo, Ontario
Well, we supported Matthews (and he has better league-wide recognition). I don't see how league-wide Jeff Skinner won. It sounds like Buffalo fans voted, and weren't apathetic saying "we need rest." Its good to show support to our players by sending them to stuff like this, and it shows strong support from the fan base.

I wish Lindholm got in in Calgary just to troll that Carolina owner. He complains about not scoring enough. Look at the 2 all Star forwards you traded last year.
 

Joey Hoser

Registered User
Jan 8, 2008
14,232
4,143
Guelph
So how do explain Auston Matthews getting voted as the Atlantic Division captain? How many of those votes were from Leafs fans and fans of other teams around the league?

I didn't think the captains were voted on. I thought most were selected by the league and there was just a spot or two for fans to vote on. No?
 

zeke

The Dube Abides
Mar 14, 2005
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I think he's right, pretty sure zeke knows they've both won. The way the Norris (and a lot of the NHL awards) are decided upon is outdated, boxscores used to be the only way of tracking performance without watching every game for every player in contention, the guys that decide on the awards don't use nearly enough of what's available to them now to make their decisions

Burns should never have won, that's for sure.

Karlsson is different - while he's facing lighter competition this year, he was facing legit top pair competition and huge minutes in ottawa.
 

WilliamNylander

Papi's home
Jul 26, 2012
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It will be interesting to see if they release the actual vote #s.

I really doubt a fan base who cannot even fill their own building with Toronto in town voted their player in over Rielly, Point, Larkin, etc.
 

zeke

The Dube Abides
Mar 14, 2005
66,937
36,957
I don't disagree with the sentiment here but if you think Karlsson should never be considered for the Norris your research has gone horribly awry.

bad use of words. I meant to say he should never be considered this year. For me, it simply doesn't make sense for a best dman award go to a dman who doesn't even face the other team's top line every game.

His usage in Ottawa, when he won, was much tougher. And I would even argue that his usage this year should be tougher too, and that the sharks should really dial back on their vlasic/braun abuse. But so far this year, imo his usage hasn't been tough enough.

That being said, looking at the numbers now, it does seem as if they may be dialling down the vlasic pair's usage and dialling up Karlsson's usage a bit. If that continues and he gets back up to decent 1st line competition than yeah sure he could be in the running for me again.
 

Randy Randerson

Registered User
Jul 28, 2016
10,637
3,445
Hamilton
Burns should never have won, that's for sure.

Karlsson is different - while he's facing lighter competition this year, he was facing legit top pair competition and huge minutes in ottawa.
I don't know if I would just outright disqualify guys for not playing against top pair competition, but I'd definitely factor that into the decision. I guess I can agree that Burns' win wasn't by a big enough margin that he should have edged Hedman and Karlsson who were right behind him in production and facing top competition in the process
 

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