More Speculation About Babcock's Future

[RedWingsNow*]

I

Fire Babcock if it'll help the team, but what do you expect another coach to do with this roster?

Change.

 

[Heaton]

I can't believe people continue to think we lose anything if Babcock leaves.

He can't win here with his group anymore..

HE'S DONE.

TIme for his next job.

That's HOW COACHING WORKS

Right, but the point you're missing is that even if Babcock leaves - so what? A new voice is going to replace the blue line? Or force Holland to do something to improve the roster? I doubt it. Firing Babcock is a useless gesture if everything else remains status quo, you see it all the time.

 

[Laser Rayzor]

If only they could coax Maclean to come back if they give him the head coach position.

Never should have let him go.

 

[Heaton]

Change.

Not good enough.

 

[CloneHakanPlease*]

RonPaul2012 or whatever

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Right, but the point you're missing is that even if Babcock leaves - so what? A new voice is going to replace the blue line? Or force Holland to do something to improve the roster? I doubt it. Firing Babcock is a useless gesture if everything else remains status quo, you see it all the time.

I have no idea what may force Holland to improve the roster.

I do think firing Babcock will give some of the kids a chance to develop into the players they are meant to be -- and that is critical to our future success.

In fact, I think it's critical to our current success.

I watch Babcock scratch a guy like Tootoo...And honestly, I think Babcock could be scratching Tootoo out of spite - his way of saying, you suck Kenny! I'm not playing your bums.

He needs to go and Holland needs to hire a GM who works with the kind of players Holland likes to sign

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Not good enough.

It's totally good enough.

Look, when you've got a girlfiend and it's over... you can keep going through the motions until the next girls comes along...

Or you can do the right thing and end it when it's over.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

If only they could coax Maclean to come back if they give him the head coach position.

Never should have let him go.

That's the kind of move Holland would love to make, too. Thank God he can't

 

[petesrw]

I keep hearing it on this board about extending Babcock or not resigning him... Why does this keep being brought up? It's not an issue for two more years.

"In October 2010, Babcock signed a further four-year extension with the Red Wings that will see him through to the end of the 2014-15 season"

 

[LeighDx59]

What's Dave Tippet's contract situation in Phoenix? I doubt it happens but I would love to have Tippet as our coach, like Trotz he seems to get alot out of his rosters.

But this falls on both Holland and Babcock. It's getting frustrating seeing our lack of moves to improve the team. Sammy and Cola haven't played more then what three games combined? Not to mention with Babs, your seeing Tatar and Andersson and Tootoo outworking Cleary on a nightly basis and out-producing him and yet the get sent down (Tatar) or reduced minutes. It's getting stupid.

 

[Run the Jewels]

I keep hearing it on this board about extending Babcock or not resigning him... Why does this keep being brought up? It's not an issue for two more years.

"In October 2010, Babcock signed a further four-year extension with the Red Wings that will see him through to the end of the 2014-15 season"

Red Berenson is apparently signed through the 2015-16 season. Who knows, maybe Babcock finishes up this contract and then Red retires with one year left on his contract. I don't buy that Babcock is headed to the NCAA, I'm just playing along with the rumors and innuendo.

 

[VladTheImpaler]

Renney is exactly what you DON'T want. Dude got the Edmonton job handed to him on a silver platter after a one year apprentiship under Quinn and wore out his welcome after a year. He's not the person you want in charge with a young team.

Renney is the genius guiding our power play at the moment, need I say more?

Oh please. We have not changed our PP set-up in about 15 years. Apart from a few brief looks by Blashill, it has been shots from the point with Homer in front. Renney is "in charge" of our PP but he reports to Babcock and ultimately, Babcock has final say on all PP decisions.

As for Renney in Edmonton: you could put Scotty Bowman in Edmonton right now and I doubt he would produce significantly different results than what Renney did in his tenure there. That organization is a disaster from the top down.

I am not saying I am 100% on board with Renney being a potential Babcock successor, but he and Blashill are two very realistic possibilities as long as they are both in the organization when Babcock's extension expires.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Right, but the point you're missing is that even if Babcock leaves - so what? A new voice is going to replace the blue line? Or force Holland to do something to improve the roster? I doubt it. Firing Babcock is a useless gesture if everything else remains status quo, you see it all the time.

I think the idea would be that firing Babcock would allow Holland to put a coach in place who will play offensive hockey again. I'd imagine more 3 scoring line hockey and less dump and chase.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

What's Dave Tippet's contract situation in Phoenix? I doubt it happens but I would love to have Tippet as our coach, like Trotz he seems to get alot out of his rosters.

No.
No.
Nononono.

If we all hate dump and chase, we'll REALLY hate the trap.

 

[Run the Jewels]

I think the idea would be that firing Babcock would allow Holland to put a coach in place who will play offensive hockey again. I'd imagine more 3 scoring line hockey and less dump and chase.

Name one coach who has a track record of success better than Mike Babcock. Tom Renney? Lindsey Ruff? Jeff Blashill? Bryan Murray drafted most of our elite talent, along with much of the elite talent in Anaheim and Ottawa.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Name one coach who has a track record of success better than Mike Babcock. Tom Renney? Lindsey Ruff? Jeff Blashill? Bryan Murray drafted most of our elite talent, along with much of the elite talent in Anaheim and Ottawa.

I think your question is thinking about it the wrong way. Detroit isn't in the position to bring in a coach to maximize the lineup. If that's what we want, we can keep Babcock—we won't get any better.

The issue is that Detroit is not a contender and will not be. It's time for Detroit to let younger players have a place on the team and learn the game. To do that, Detroit needs more of a player's coach. Once the younger guys start to get acclimated, then you bring in a guy like Babcock to bring structure to their game and make them competitive again.

 

[Crymson]

Suddenly Babcock is a genius for having Abdelkader on the top line. Nobody has helped him out on those goals.

 

[dtones520]

Wait, do you mean the University of Michigan? That seems like quite the step down.

Well, he's done everything else as a coach, why not go win an NCAA Championship as well? Besides after coaching for a long good run, with a Stanley Cup, in Detroit is there really many better coaching jobs in the NHL? Not in my book. Why not coach for 20 years at Michigan, be a teacher/role model for young men? Doesn't seem like too bad of a gig to me. Look at Red Berenson, you don't think he's been offered NHL jobs?

 

[dtones520]

If the organization truly wants this lineup to get younger they can force Babcock's hand by not signing, waiving, buying out its older players. Instead they are constantly bringing up and sending down its young talent while continually bringing in more veteran players. Which makes me think that Holland and Babcock are more on the same page than people seem to make them out to be. We didn't have to resign Beruzzi, we didn't have to sign Samuelsson, we didn't need to bring in Brunner. Had we not made those moves they would have no choice but to have Tatar and Nyquist in every night.

 

[Run the Jewels]

I think your question is thinking about it the wrong way. Detroit isn't in the position to bring in a coach to maximize the lineup. If that's what we want, we can keep Babcock—we won't get any better.

The issue is that Detroit is not a contender and will not be. It's time for Detroit to let younger players have a place on the team and learn the game. To do that, Detroit needs more of a player's coach. Once the younger guys start to get acclimated, then you bring in a guy like Babcock to bring structure to their game and make them competitive again.

Mike Babcock doesn't sign free agents. He doesn't call guys up from Grand Rapids. So with that being said it's probably worth rethinking what needs to change in Detroit. Look at that, Babs and Pavs say Abby belongs on a scoring line and he notches a legit hat trick tonight.

Nice work Holland!!!!!

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Mike Babcock doesn't sign free agents. He doesn't call guys up from Grand Rapids. So with that being said it's probably worth rethinking what needs to change in Detroit. Look at that, Babs and Pavs say Abby belongs on a scoring line and he notches a legit hat trick tonight.

Nice work Holland!!!!!

I don't think anyone should bank on Justin Abdelkader scoring goals. Are we really surprised that a guy playing on a line with DATSYUK finally cashes in? Average those goals over the minutes he's spent on that line and I'm still unimpressed.

But, you're right. Mike Babcock doesn't call up guys like Tatar and Nyquist; he just doesn't play them when Holland does. That's exactly my point.

 

[Heaton]

I don't think anyone should bank on Justin Abdelkader scoring goals. Are we really surprised that a guy playing on a line with DATSYUK finally cashes in? Average those goals over the minutes he's spent on that line and I'm still unimpressed.

But, you're right. Mike Babcock doesn't call up guys like Tatar and Nyquist; he just doesn't play them when Holland does. That's exactly my point.

Then it's still on Holland. If the coach isn't doing the best thing for the organization he needs to go, and that's Holland's call.

 

[Crymson]

I don't think anyone should bank on Justin Abdelkader scoring goals. Are we really surprised that a guy playing on a line with DATSYUK finally cashes in? Average those goals over the minutes he's spent on that line and I'm still unimpressed.

None of those goals depended on Datsyuk.

 

[Run the Jewels]

I don't think anyone should bank on Justin Abdelkader scoring goals. Are we really surprised that a guy playing on a line with DATSYUK finally cashes in? Average those goals over the minutes he's spent on that line and I'm still unimpressed.

But, you're right. Mike Babcock doesn't call up guys like Tatar and Nyquist; he just doesn't play them when Holland does. That's exactly my point.

MOD
Let's just say Tatar did quite well on Andersson's wing before he was sent back down to GR. Did Babcock send him down?

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

MOD Let's just say Tatar did quite well on Andersson's wing before he was sent back down to GR. Did Babcock send him down?

I think you're working a little too hard to pin this on Holland. If Babcock still wanted Tatar in the lineup, Holland wouldn't go "too bad! yoink!" Toward the end of his stay, Tatar was getting the Nyquist treatment: too small, so his icetime has to be minimized.

I do want to point out that I think you're misrepresenting how GMs and coaches interact. Or, rather, I think you're ignoring that they do. It seems like you want to take any grievance I might have and pin it on Holland instead. That said, I'm not enamored with Holland's job this season (and the past few). I'm just more unhappy with Babcock's.