More Speculation About Babcock's Future

RedWingsNow*

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Saw this from another thread.
A twitter conversation between former WDFN and Toronto Fan 590 Host Greg Brady and Detroit Sports Rag editor Jeff Moss...


I can't be the only one thinking it ends this summer, amicably for Mike Babcock & the Red Wings. A fantastic coach but it might be best.
— Greg Brady (@bradyfan590) March 21, 2013
@bradyfan590 not sure why you think it is going to amicable.But it is inevitable.
— Jeff Moss (@JeffMossDSR) March 21, 2013
@dkingbh I'm saying Babcock wants to go.....
— Greg Brady (@bradyfan590) March 21, 2013
@jeffmossdsr I just don't think it'll be painted as "Wings Fire Babcock"....
— Greg Brady (@bradyfan590) March 21, 2013
@bradyfan590 it will be PR.But there has been a Holland/Babcock rift for awhile.And 13 @ 40 are trough with him also.
— Jeff Moss (@JeffMossDSR) March 21, 2013
@bradyfan590 There is a well informed rumor he might want the Michigan job in 2015. Not just pie in the sky either.
— Craig D. Barker (@cdbarker) March 21, 2013


http://redwingsnow.com/coach-babcock/are-babcocks-days-numbered-detroit
 

Henkka

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There is a well informed rumor he might want the Michigan job in 2015.

That fine for me. Get Blashill up after that. I just want him to coach the whole prospect core for 2-3 years (next season is the most important to have Blashill still in A, because it will be the best Griffins team ever), then promote him up at 2014 or 2015, and then the guys will follow him 1-2 years after.

Maybe Babcck could be gone earlier, and we could go with Renney, or something. But I'm pretty sure Blashill is the the next long-term head coach.

Still, the fall of this team is hardly Babcock's fault. But even if it isn't his fault, the "falling stock" isn't the nicest environment to be after a long success. The rise will come after, but not before Mike is still in here. So it could be hard to get motivated.
 

wingfan

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Jul 1, 2012
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The rift between Holland and Babcock is visible, anyone who follows the Wings can see this. As for Hank amd Pav, that would be news to me, but not surprising. It just goes to show the professionalism and class of these guys, not airing, or even hinting, at discourse on any public forum.
 

RedWingsNow*

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I highly doubt that Ilitch will entrust this team to an unproven guy like Blashill
 

Heaton

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Feb 13, 2004
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As long as he takes Daniel Cleary with him.

Good Riddance.

What's Barry Smith up to these days?

Barry Smith has never shown an interest in being a head coach in the NHL.

As for this stuff, just more fluff. The same fluff that Andy Strictland proposed the off-season prior to the Wings winning the cup when supposedly Lidstrom was 'leading the charge' to get Babcock fired.

I've thought for a while that Babcock would leave when his current deal was done. He's not the type of coach to hang around when his GM isn't as interested in winning as he is.
 

InjuredChoker

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Dec 25, 2011
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Saw this from another thread.
A twitter conversation between former WDFN and Toronto Fan 590 Host Greg Brady and Detroit Sports Rag editor Jeff Moss...


I can't be the only one thinking it ends this summer, amicably for Mike Babcock & the Red Wings. A fantastic coach but it might be best.
— Greg Brady (@bradyfan590) March 21, 2013
@bradyfan590 not sure why you think it is going to amicable.But it is inevitable.
— Jeff Moss (@JeffMossDSR) March 21, 2013
@dkingbh I'm saying Babcock wants to go.....
— Greg Brady (@bradyfan590) March 21, 2013
@jeffmossdsr I just don't think it'll be painted as "Wings Fire Babcock"....
— Greg Brady (@bradyfan590) March 21, 2013
@bradyfan590 it will be PR.But there has been a Holland/Babcock rift for awhile.And 13 @ 40 are trough with him also.
— Jeff Moss (@JeffMossDSR) March 21, 2013
@bradyfan590 There is a well informed rumor he might want the Michigan job in 2015. Not just pie in the sky either.
— Craig D. Barker (@cdbarker) March 21, 2013


http://redwingsnow.com/coach-babcock/are-babcocks-days-numbered-detroit

The Nyquist thread or somewhere else?
 

JPE123

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Jan 23, 2013
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To the untrained eye it really does seem that Babcock and Holland are not on the same page. I go back to Bab's interview after the Chicago game when he said "Chicago made a lot of good moves- they went out and got Oduya last year and he has made their defense solid". Well, that was the same time we went out and got Quincey and it made me feel this was a direct shot at Holland.

Off season Kenny signed Bertuzzi to an extension, Sammy who has contributed nothing, CC who has contributed nothing, and Tootoo who Babs only plays 8-9 minutes a game.

I'm not blaming the season so far entirely on Babcock but his line choices demonstrate a certain stubborness, almost like he's trying to prove a point. The Cleary experiment lasted entirely too long and I doubt only the fans were complaining about it.

We have depleted talent for a few years now. I just don't get the strategy. If we aren't playing for a successful playoff run, let the young guys play and see what they can do and prepare for next year and beyond. I seriously don't believe we have the talent on the current team to get beyond round 1.
 

TatarTangle

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Sep 28, 2011
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We have depleted talent for a few years now. I just don't get the strategy. If we aren't playing for a successful playoff run, let the young guys play and see what they can do and prepare for next year and beyond. I seriously don't believe we have the talent on the current team to get beyond round 1.
It's all about that playoff streak man. Because, you know, that's more important than a Stanley Cup.
 

odin1981

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Mar 8, 2013
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I feel the main rift is the disconnect Babcock has with "red wing puck possesion style". Between the current corps when healthy (discounting samuelson) in addition to what our first line in grand rapids was at the start of the year we still have the talent to roll a three scoring line team.

However that being said this year Babcock seems to only want to play/give rolls to unskilled big players do to his perception that they play "real good". Granted I admit our d is lacking I'd say around one legitimate puck moving d atm. But he could have rolled something around this from the start of the season lineup wise for forwards:

Bertuzzi-Datsyuk-Brunner
Fil-Z-Franzen
Nyquist-Anderson-Tatar
Miller-Helm-Tootoo

Instead he has a love affair with 8 and 11 (granted injuries) in the top 6. He doesn't give Tatar a spot he earned in his stint with the wings. He keeps Andersson which isn't bad but why not keep him with the chemistry he had with both his grand rapids teamates for 40+ games. And he limits tootoo to like 10 mins a game tops when he gives effort, energy, and heart to keep fellow teamates protected and revitalized.

With the above mentioned forward corps you have 5/6 top six capable of their role (bertuzzi isn't anymore (wasn't) but apparently dats likes/prefers a big body on his line). The third line is capable of puck possesion as well as two way ability and can grow together in chemistry for the years to come. And we have a 4th line that is a great energy line. Pretty typical red wing format of the last 20 or so years. Instead he wants to transform the wings into a mid 2000 ducks team and refuses to give roles to players that don't play dump and chase.
 
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RedWingsNow*

Guest
Wait, do you mean the University of Michigan? That seems like quite the step down.

It does.
But what else is he going to do? Get fired every 5 years in the NHL?

He could be coach for life at UofM, and it would be security and a slower paced life. Besides, players aren't going to tune you out when they graduate every 4 years

And Babcock sees himself as a teacher.
 

RedWingsNow*

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Barry Smith has never shown an interest in being a head coach in the NHL.

As for this stuff, just more fluff. The same fluff that Andy Strictland proposed the off-season prior to the Wings winning the cup when supposedly Lidstrom was 'leading the charge' to get Babcock fired.

I've thought for a while that Babcock would leave when his current deal was done. He's not the type of coach to hang around when his GM isn't as interested in winning as he is.

It's only "fluff'" because out our Red Wings beat reporters have no balls to do any digging themselves.

Helene St James is busy tweeting out Bertuzzi's pink socks. These reporters wouldn't report if Lidstrom wanted Babcock fired.

Just like they won't look into any rift between Babcock and Holland. Just like they won't look into any rift between D or Z and Babcock.
 
Jul 30, 2005
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I mean, what is location, really
I feel the main rift is the disconnect Babcock has with "red wing puck possesion style".
To me, the interesting question is: why is Babcock ignoring Kenny now? When Babcock first came in, he wanted to play this style and Kenny said no, and that the team was too skilled for that. So you had this marriage of Babcock's hard working style with Holland's skill-first team. So why now?

Pure speculation, but maybe one of these:

1. Babcock already knows he's gone (either fired or leaving by himself). He's auditioning for his next team now and showing that he can take a mediocre team to the playoffs when he can do his thing.

2. Babcock thinks he can either outlast Holland or change the organization's mind. He can show that his style results in the team winning and keep his job. Holland will want to fire him, but be overruled.

3. We could say that Kenny's changed his mind about this team, but then why does he keep calling up Tatar and Nyquist only for them to get limited minutes? It seems like if Babcock had the choice, he would never have called those guys up to begin with. It seems pretty clear that Holland is trying to inject skill guys and Babcock isn't having it.
 

Flowah

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Where are these guys getting their info? Especially about Datsyuk and Zetterberg's feelings on Babcock?
 

RedWingsNow*

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Where are these guys getting their info? Especially about Datsyuk and Zetterberg's feelings on Babcock?

That came from Jeff Moss, editor of DetroitSportsRag -- which is extremely critical (to a fault, IMO) of the Detroit Sports media.

2012-05-13-15.20.21-150x150.png
 

Run the Jewels

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To me, the interesting question is: why is Babcock ignoring Kenny now? When Babcock first came in, he wanted to play this style and Kenny said no, and that the team was too skilled for that. So you had this marriage of Babcock's hard working style with Holland's skill-first team. So why now?

Pure speculation, but maybe one of these:

1. Babcock already knows he's gone (either fired or leaving by himself). He's auditioning for his next team now and showing that he can take a mediocre team to the playoffs when he can do his thing.

2. Babcock thinks he can either outlast Holland or change the organization's mind. He can show that his style results in the team winning and keep his job. Holland will want to fire him, but be overruled.

3. We could say that Kenny's changed his mind about this team, but then why does he keep calling up Tatar and Nyquist only for them to get limited minutes? It seems like if Babcock had the choice, he would never have called those guys up to begin with. It seems pretty clear that Holland is trying to inject skill guys and Babcock isn't having it.

Holland really does nothing at this point. He never makes trades to address a need. He can't outbid everyone for the best UFAs any more. And he never gives younger guys a shot in Detroit unless there are injuries. Nill runs the draft. With Holland you are hoping we can continue to hit the jackpot with guys like Z and Pavs. That's not sustainable. Holland should be promoted up to a position where he'll have no involvement with GM duties. He's made one good trade and one good UFA signing since the cap was implemented.
 

odin1981

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Mar 8, 2013
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To me, the interesting question is: why is Babcock ignoring Kenny now? When Babcock first came in, he wanted to play this style and Kenny said no, and that the team was too skilled for that. So you had this marriage of Babcock's hard working style with Holland's skill-first team. So why now?

Pure speculation, but maybe one of these:

1. Babcock already knows he's gone (either fired or leaving by himself). He's auditioning for his next team now and showing that he can take a mediocre team to the playoffs when he can do his thing.

2. Babcock thinks he can either outlast Holland or change the organization's mind. He can show that his style results in the team winning and keep his job. Holland will want to fire him, but be overruled.

3. We could say that Kenny's changed his mind about this team, but then why does he keep calling up Tatar and Nyquist only for them to get limited minutes? It seems like if Babcock had the choice, he would never have called those guys up to begin with. It seems pretty clear that Holland is trying to inject skill guys and Babcock isn't having it.

I believe that Lidstrom was his problem for instituting a dump and chase grind style. With him he couldn't dare to implement said style. I would personally rather take a bullet to the head willingly then accept the wings playing like the blues, panthers, predators, rangers and others. But with one of the top 5 all time defense players he couldn't risk it earlier unless he just wanted to get fired.

I don't agree with point 2 due to the wings owners wanting a competitive and entertaining product. But I see how he could be trying for it but it would just hurt our team more. A Hitchcock like team is not entertaining to watch and would hurt our on ice product. I would rather we coin flip for playoffs for 3-5 years and when we don't get a good draft position but also keep a entertaining product to watch even though we might not be a contending team anymore. But lets be honest if datsyuk retires next year I would not be surprised to see a lottery pick for 1-2 years. Granted this is just my personal opinion. Z and whatever/whoever is on his line would get shut down hard always having to face the defensive best of whoever we played while sproal, ouelette, jarnkroke, jurco, and others mature in next 1-2 years.

I don't believe Holland has changed his mind about playstyle. I just believe that Babcock has a little bit on influence on drafting to a degree do to not playing players he doesn't like in regards to ice time. However i believe Holland has gotten way to conservative on who he grabs via free agency. It has hurt, granted suter didn't sign with us (he would have been what we needed as far as d in addition to the following smith, kronner, quincy, Big Rig, and kindl the prototypical 4 puck moving 2 defensive d red wing approach) but I question why he would bring in cc and sammy (just this year specifically) when we had a lockout 1/2 season. Condensed schedual, lots of tight games, so you bring in additions with health issue history and then our surprised they haven't done jack?
 

VladTheImpaler

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Feb 27, 2012
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With the inevitable youth movement, I would be in favor of rolling with Nill as GM and either Renney or Blashill as the HC.

Now some people may think that there won't be any difference between Kenny and Nill, but I believe there is. That said, it's highly doubtful the Ilitches force Holland out of the GM spot.
 

The Zetterberg Era

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Where are these guys getting their info? Especially about Datsyuk and Zetterberg's feelings on Babcock?

At Z's own captain press conference they hinted at the fact that he and Babcock go at it from time to time. They called it healthy, but a read between the lines there is they do argue. Could be good could be bad, certainly the captain needs to do that, but he was doing it with an A as well instead of Lidstrom. Just interesting and it would not surprise me at all if Zetterberg and Datsyuk are tired of some of the ways Babcock does stuff.
 

GT500x

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If there really is such a rift between Babs and Kenny - and I believe there is - they both need to go. What GM in his right mind allows this to go on? Ken Holland was a fine GM in the previous era but in the salary cap era he is flipping clueless and afraid to hurt feelings by making hard decisions that need to be made. It's time to restructure. Thank you for your valued years of service Babcock and Holland. We need to move on.
 

Flowah

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Nov 30, 2009
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At Z's own captain press conference they hinted at the fact that he and Babcock go at it from time to time. They called it healthy, but a read between the lines there is they do argue. Could be good could be bad, certainly the captain needs to do that, but he was doing it with an A as well instead of Lidstrom. Just interesting and it would not surprise me at all if Zetterberg and Datsyuk are tired of some of the ways Babcock does stuff.
I watched that. It just seemed like they were saying Z is a guy who speaks his mind and isn't afraid to say something if he thinks there's a problem. That's a very clear leadership quality. Didn't really seem to point to problem between Z and Babs.

Dunno man. I just don't know the source of these rumors. Even if it seems like the coach, the GM, and the players have different ideas in mind.
 

The Zetterberg Era

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I watched that. It just seemed like they were saying Z is a guy who speaks his mind and isn't afraid to say something if he thinks there's a problem. That's a very clear leadership quality. Didn't really seem to point to problem between Z and Babs.

Dunno man. I just don't know the source of these rumors. Even if it seems like the coach, the GM, and the players have different ideas in mind.

I think it is pretty natural they would all be sick of each other. Missing is I still think a great deal of respect exists between all of the people we are talking about. They might want to go separate ways, but there will always be respect in my opinion. Coaches messages eventually get stale, it just happens.
 

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