More likely to win an NHL scoring title - Matthews or Marner?

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

So I assume you also agree that Matthews goal totals will go down then, right? You can't have it both ways and say that Marleau is going to help his assist totals because he can score but not agree that his goal scoring will probably go down playing with a guy that's averaged less than 12 ES assists a year over the last 3 seasons instead of Hyman who has averaged almost twice as many. I think playing with Marleau will be a good thing for Matthews and I think he has a great year but I think people get a little carried away when reading name Marleau because they instantly think of a high end top line player but that's just not what he is anymore.

I'm sorry but why can't Matthews goals and assist totals both rise? Last year he had 34 goals 63 points in 62 games, that's about 45 goals 85 points over 82 games so assuming he's healthy I see no reason why his goal scoring has the drop for his assists to go up.

 

[StoneHands]

I'm sorry but why can't Matthews goals and assist totals both rise? Last year he had 34 goals 63 points in 62 games, that's about 45 goals 85 points over 82 games so assuming he's healthy I see no reason why his goal scoring has the drop for his assists to go up.

Because he's replacing a guy who is better at passing than scoring with a guy who is better at scoring than passing. Instead of 45-40-85 he could see something like 40-45-85. Matthews also had an unsustainable on-ice shooting percentage last year so if you think goalies are going to have a .877 SV% when he's on the ice every year I don't know what else to say.

 

[authentic]

Because he's replacing a guy who is better at passing than scoring with a guy who is better at scoring than passing. Instead of 45-40-85 he could see something like 40-45-85. Matthews also had an unsustainable on-ice shooting percentage last year so if you think goalies are going to have a .877 SV% when he's on the ice every year I don't know what else to say.

He finished 2nd in the NHL in goals in his rookie season. Marleau is both a better passer and scorer than Hyman. Matthews is only 21 to start the season so he still may not even be starting his prime yet. I don't get the problem people have with thinking he could score 45-50 and over 40 assists. I can tell you from watching him regularly that injury is the only thing that will stop him from achieving those stats.

 

[Deadly Dogma]

its getting old how when ever we talk about elite players we have to add the caveat that McDavid is always the best in order to avoid poop.

 

[StoneHands]

He finished 2nd in the NHL in goals in his rookie season. Marleau is both a better passer and scorer than Hyman. Matthews is only 21 to start the season so he still may not even be starting his prime yet. I don't get the problem people have with thinking he could score 45-50 and over 40 assists. I can tell you from watching him regularly that injury is the only thing that will stop him from achieving those stats.

Statistically what you said about Marleau is wrong. Marleau isn't the borderline hall of famer he once was. He has 35 ES assists in his last 3 seasons combined. That's bad, really bad and it's not like he's been playing with bad players. That's less than Jay Beagle, Daniel Winnik, Casey Cizikas, and Antoine Roussel. I'm not saying that Matthews can't improve or that he won't improve because I think he will but to pretend like adding Marleau to his line is going to boost his goal scoring despite the fact that Hyman has more ES assist the last 2 years than Marleau does the last 3 years is an odd stance to take.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Statistically what you said about Marleau is wrong. Marleau isn't the borderline hall of famer he once was. He has 35 ES assists in his last 3 seasons combined. That's bad, really bad and it's not like he's been playing with bad players. That's less than Jay Beagle, Daniel Winnik, Casey Cizikas, and Antoine Roussel. I'm not saying that Matthews can't improve or that he won't improve because I think he will but to pretend like adding Marleau to his line is going to boost his goal scoring despite the fact that Hyman has more ES assist the last 2 years than Marleau does the last 3 years is an odd stance to take.

I would suggest to you, buy center ice and watch more Leaf games, because it's clear you don't watch them enough if you did you'd know that even at his current age Marleau is vastly superior to Hyman, that's not a knock on Hyman he has his role and he great at it.

But Marleau and Hyman are not compareable

 

[tony d]

Went with Matthews.

 

[Skolman]

its getting old how when ever we talk about elite players we have to add the caveat that McDavid is always the best in order to avoid poop.

Ya, McDavid is for sure the best though

 

[authentic]

Statistically what you said about Marleau is wrong. Marleau isn't the borderline hall of famer he once was. He has 35 ES assists in his last 3 seasons combined. That's bad, really bad and it's not like he's been playing with bad players. That's less than Jay Beagle, Daniel Winnik, Casey Cizikas, and Antoine Roussel. I'm not saying that Matthews can't improve or that he won't improve because I think he will but to pretend like adding Marleau to his line is going to boost his goal scoring despite the fact that Hyman has more ES assist the last 2 years than Marleau does the last 3 years is an odd stance to take.

Ever think Hyman being glued to Matthews is a big reason for his assist totals? Because it is.

 

[Skolman]

Ever think Hyman being glued to Matthews is a big reason for his assist totals? Because it is.

Ever think the excuses some Leafs fans come up with are ridiculous?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Ever think Hyman being glued to Matthews is a big reason for his assist totals? Because it is.

To an extent. But elite passers usually find a way to still generate the assists even with sub-par finishers on their lines (McDavid, Crosby and Malkin have made careers out of it).

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

To an extent. But elite passers usually find a way to still generate the assists even with sub-par finishers on their lines (McDavid, Crosby and Malkin have made careers out of it).

All a playmaker can do is give frequent and good scoring opportunities for his linemates, and Matthews does that pretty well. He's a very good passer, albeit not elite at this point. He can't force Hyman and Nylander to finish though. He also can't force Hyman to become a primary contributer on a scoring play with enough frequency to rack up secondary assists

 

[613Leafer]

Matthews is younger and has had the better PPG during both of their NHL seasons to date. Gotta go with Matthews.

 

[Karl Eriksson]

Marner is the better player even if Matthews can intake more oxygen through his nose

 

[StoneHands]

Ever think Hyman being glued to Matthews is a big reason for his assist totals? Because it is.

Hey man, whatever you want to think is fine but the actual statistics do not agree with you. Matthews missed 20 games last year in 3 separate stretches. Here is how Hyman performed with and without the "glue".

Hyman With Matthews
62 Games
11 Goals - 19 Assists - 30 Points
.18 GPG - .31 APG - .48 PPG

Hyman Without Matthews
20 Games
4 Goals - 6 Assists - 10 Points
.20 GPG - .30 APG - .50 PPG

Hyman essentially saw zero change in production without Matthews. Facts are facts. At this stage of their careers, Hyman is currently better at producing assists at ES than Marleau. Marleau is clearly the better goal scorer but the guy just doesn't get it done in regards to setting up teammates. The last few years he's played with Kadri, Marner, Thornton, and Pavelski and still has far fewer ES assists than Hyman at ES.

 

[Strait2thecup]

Neither.

 

[authentic]

Hey man, whatever you want to think is fine but the actual statistics do not agree with you. Matthews missed 20 games last year in 3 separate stretches. Here is how Hyman performed with and without the "glue".

Hyman With Matthews
62 Games
11 Goals - 19 Assists - 30 Points
.18 GPG - .31 APG - .48 PPG

Hyman Without Matthews
20 Games
4 Goals - 6 Assists - 10 Points
.20 GPG - .30 APG - .50 PPG

Hyman essentially saw zero change in production without Matthews. Facts are facts. At this stage of their careers, Hyman is currently better at producing assists at ES than Marleau. Marleau is clearly the better goal scorer but the guy just doesn't get it done in regards to setting up teammates. The last few years he's played with Kadri, Marner, Thornton, and Pavelski and still has far fewer ES assists than Hyman at ES.

You conclude that he's a better playmaker than Marleau because of a 20 game sample size where he had 6 assists? Whatever works for you. The guy misses so many blatantly obvious and easy passes to make it's incredible.

 

[authentic]

Marner is the better player even if Matthews can intake more oxygen through his nose

Lol.

 

[authentic]

Ever think the excuses some Leafs fans come up with are ridiculous?

No, I think it's ridiculous how much other teams fans are obsessed with the idea that Matthews is not a good playmaker.

 

[X66]

To an extent. But elite passers usually find a way to still generate the assists even with sub-par finishers on their lines (McDavid, Crosby and Malkin have made careers out of it).

Matthews is in the 93rd percentile for dangerous assists generated.

He’s in the 50th percentile for secondary assists.

That’s largely out of his control, his assists can go up a ton if he’s on the top pp this year as well.

 

[Skolman]

No, I think it's ridiculous how much other teams fans are obsessed with the idea that Matthews is not a good playmaker.

He's no where near the playmaker some Leafs fans make him out to be, that doesn't mean he's a "bad playmaker".

 

[X66]

Hey man, whatever you want to think is fine but the actual statistics do not agree with you. Matthews missed 20 games last year in 3 separate stretches. Here is how Hyman performed with and without the "glue".

Hyman With Matthews
62 Games
11 Goals - 19 Assists - 30 Points
.18 GPG - .31 APG - .48 PPG

Hyman Without Matthews
20 Games
4 Goals - 6 Assists - 10 Points
.20 GPG - .30 APG - .50 PPG

Hyman essentially saw zero change in production without Matthews. Facts are facts. At this stage of their careers, Hyman is currently better at producing assists at ES than Marleau. Marleau is clearly the better goal scorer but the guy just doesn't get it done in regards to setting up teammates. The last few years he's played with Kadri, Marner, Thornton, and Pavelski and still has far fewer ES assists than Hyman at ES.

This is one important thing that I brought up a lot, Hyman in those games Matthews was out played his right wing, which is way better for him than playing his off wing, like he does when Matthews is in.

He simply doesn’t have the skill to play the game on his off wing on the offensive level.

 

[StoneHands]

You conclude that he's a better playmaker than Marleau because of a 20 game sample size where he had 6 assists? Whatever works for you. The guy misses so many blatantly obvious and easy passes to make it's incredible.

I was simply replying to you saying that the reason Hyman had more assists than Marleau is because he played with Matthews. All I did was show that he literally had the same results playing away from Matthews than he did playing with him. Sure, it's a small sample size, but it's better than anything you provided. Do you have any statistics to back up your claim other than "I watch the games"? If so, I'm all ears.

Marleau had 16 ES assists in the entire season and you're putting down Hyman for 6 in 20 games? There were 210 players in the NHL last season with more ES assists than Marleau, most of which played with worse linemates. Again, this isn't 2006, Marleau isn't the same player he once was.

 

[Skolman]

This is one important thing that I brought up a lot, Hyman in those games Matthews was out played his right wing, which is way better for him than playing his off wing, like he does when Matthews is in.

He simply doesn’t have the skill to play the game on his off wing on the offensive level.

it's amazing how some of you make up the most absurd excuses, even after proven wrong.

 

[6ix]

I mean I get everyone wants to talk about the leafs, good or bad, because they're the centre of the hockey universe. It would be nice if half the polls weren't leaf based. A lot of them are not even created by leaf fans. Other players and teams deserve more recognition IMO.