HF Habs: Montreal Canadiens Training Camp (Roster & Pre-Season Schedule in OP)

[Treb]

Guhle has been able to provide offence this pre-season. By the way, the guy with the hardest shot of the Big Three prospects is Xhekaj.

I trust the staff to not tell these guys to concentrate 99% on defence.

It's not about the staff, it's about how difficult it is to defend in the NHL vs AHL and reaction time.

Providing offence in preseason doesn't mean much or Brandon Bochenski would have been an NHL superstar.

The AHL would make it easier for Guhle to develop his offensive capabilities. More reaction time so it's easier to train his brain for opportunities.

I prefer "slower growth" but more chances to hit ceiling than "faster growth" but less chances to hit ceiling.

We can take our time with our prospects to maximize the hit rate and we should use it. We don't "need" Guhle in the NHL this year, it just lowers the chances of hitting his ceiling by throwing him in a high pressure situation.

 

[Vachon23]

 

[The Great Weal]

He was pretty much invisible at 5v5 and we know he can do more which is the scary part

 

[BaseballCoach]

It's not about the staff, it's about how difficult it is to defend in the NHL vs AHL and reaction time.

Providing offence in preseason doesn't mean much or Brandon Bochenski would have been an NHL superstar.

The AHL would make it easier for Guhle to develop his offensive capabilities. More reaction time so it's easier to train his brain for opportunities.

I prefer "slower growth" but more chances to hit ceiling than "faster growth" but less chances to hit ceiling.

We can take our time with our prospects to maximize the hit rate and we should use it. We don't "need" Guhle in the NHL this year, it just lowers the chances of hitting his ceiling by throwing him in a high pressure situation.

I agree Guhle's offence will improve if defending is easier for him.

Defending well against Laurent Dauphin and Charles Hudon and Brandon Baddock is not a substitute for learning to defend against Drake Batherson or Brady.

Guhle will learn to defend Batherson and Tkachuk by playing against them, while Barron gets top minutes in Laval to learn to read the play better.

Thomas Chabot had a lot of defensive question marks at the 2017 camp so he played 13 games in Belleville that year (at 0.54 ppg and was minus-10!!). But he also played 63 games in Ottawa, and you can be sure it was the 63 at 0.40 ppg that mostly prepared him to break out the following year.

 

[Skip Bayless]

Him and Suzuki are the only truly good players we have

He was pretty much invisible at 5v5 and we know he can do more which is the scary part

He's a future 50 goal scorer.

There was no luck involved in that top corner lazer beam last night, he can do it on command.

 

[Kennerback]

I agree Guhle's offence will improve if defending is easier for him.

Defending well against Laurent Dauphin and Charles Hudon and Brandon Baddock is not a substitute for learning to defend against Drake Batherson or Brady.

Guhle will learn to defend Batherson and Tkachuk by playing against them, while Barron gets top minutes in Laval to learn to read the play better.

Thomas Chabot had a lot of defensive question marks at the 2017 camp so he played 13 games in Belleville that year (at 0.54 ppg and was minus-10!!). But he also played 63 games in Ottawa, and you can be sure it was the 63 at 0.40 ppg that mostly prepared him to break out the following year.

Guhle‘s been one of the few bright lights on defence. He’s an NHL player.

 

[SlafySZN]

He was pretty much invisible at 5v5 and we know he can do more which is the scary part

He wasn’t invisible at all, he made many good things and great plays that didn’t get in the back of the net, his linemates was changing every game he played too.

 

[The Great Weal]

He wasn’t invisible at all, he made many good things and great plays that didn’t get in the back of the net, his linemates was changing every game he played too.

I've only noticed him do elite things on the PP and many here have brought it up too. I'm not even saying it as a bad thing, he's proven that he's not a PP specialist so the fact that he can do more than what he's done already is a good thing...

 

[Treb]

I agree Guhle's offence will improve if defending is easier for him.

Defending well against Laurent Dauphin and Charles Hudon and Brandon Baddock is not a substitute for learning to defend against Drake Batherson or Brady.

Guhle will learn to defend Batherson and Tkachuk by playing against them, while Barron gets top minutes in Laval to learn to read the play better.

Thomas Chabot had a lot of defensive question marks at the 2017 camp so he played 13 games in Belleville that year (at 0.54 ppg and was minus-10!!). But he also played 63 games in Ottawa, and you can be sure it was the 63 at 0.40 ppg that mostly prepared him to break out the following year.

The thing is, he can learn to defend against Batherson/Tkachuk after learning offence against Hudon/Baddock but not the inverse, so you have to hope he develops offensively while having tougher matchups. Some players do, some players don't.

Guhle is already ready defensively, but not completely offensively. Making it easier for him to work on his "weakness" is the way to go IMO.

For every Chabot, there's a bunch of Mete. You're taking a risk we don't need to take.

 

[SlafySZN]

I've only noticed him do elite things on the PP and many here have brought it up too. I'm not even saying it as a bad thing, he's proven that he's not a PP specialist so the fact that he can do more than what he's done already is a good thing...

Ah for sure, he visibly was practicing that exact shot on the PP in ‘’real’’ games scenarios so he could be ready for the season, since we know he’s already good enough anyway even if he is not a vet.

 

[morhilane]

He wasn’t invisible at all, he made many good things and great plays that didn’t get in the back of the net, his linemates was changing every game he played too.

He clearly lacked space at 5v5 when not paying with Suzuki or Dach. Often getting "mugged" by two opposing players who had no problem leaving with the puck. Monahan tried to go help him a few times last game when that happened, but he's not attracting as much attention as the other twos are...yet.

 

[BaseballCoach]

The thing is, he can learn to defend against Batherson/Tkachuk after learning offence against Hudon/Baddock but not the inverse, so you have to hope he develops offensively while having tougher matchups. Some players do, some players don't.

Guhle is already ready defensively, but not completely offensively. Making it easier for him to work on his "weakness" is the way to go IMO.

For every Chabot, there's a bunch of Mete. You're taking a risk we don't need to take.

Chabot was 18 OA, Guhle 16 OA. Mete was an undersized 4th round pick trying to break in UNDERAGED!

We really have to stop being spooked by the disasters of the Bergevin/Therrien/Julien years.

No one says boo that Brady and Stutzle spent zero time in the minors and started at 18.

Each player needs to be evaluated for NHL readiness. Guhle is ready, time to start his development against the best.

 

[Treb]

Chabot was 18 OA, Guhle 16 OA. Mete was an undersized 4th round pick trying to break in UNDERAGED!

We really have to stop being spooked by the disasters of the Bergevin/Therrien/Julien years.

No one says boo that Brady and Stutzle spent zero time in the minors and started at 18.

Each player needs to be evaluated for NHL readiness. Guhle is ready, time to start his development against the best.

Nothing to do with MB and everything to do with how things work since hockey has existed.

Guhle loses nothing playing in the AHL, but could lose something playing in the NHL. Simple as that.

 

[SlafySZN]

He clearly lacked space at 5v5 when not paying with Suzuki or Dach. Often getting "mugged" by two opposing players who had no problem leaving with the puck. Monahan tried to go help him a few times last game when that happened, but he's not attracting as much attention as the other twos are...yet.

That will happen when you play with different linemates every game, other than the last two games. He still made couple of good plays and set up guys or had chances himself. I would have liked to see him more than 1 game with Dach during pre-season especially since suzuki wasn’t there, oh well.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Nothing to do with MB and everything to do with how things work since hockey has existed.

Guhle loses nothing playing in the AHL, but could lose something playing in the NHL. Simple as that.

That is not true. Since hockey existed, you DO LOSE when insufficiently challenged. Rather, you gain less. And for 20 year olds, it is while the ELC clock is ticking.

You also have only so many prime minutes in Laval. The more given to guys who don't need them, the less available to the next wave.

No one says boo that Tkachuk and Stutzle played in the NHL at 18, and Chabot at 20.

You think Guhle won't develop his offence to top level this year in the NHL? True, he won't. Neither did Chabot in his 63 games in the NHL at 20. But amazingly enough, that prepared him to break out the next year. Besides, Guhle is more of an all-round D and not an offensive specialist. The specialist is Barron, and I'm ok with having him play in the AHL to learn to defend better so he can be trusted with minutes to generate offence eventually.

 

[Treb]

That is not true. Since hockey existed, you DO LOSE when insufficiently challenged. Rather, you gain less. And for 20 year olds, it is while the ELC clock is ticking.

You also have only so many prime minutes in Laval. The more given to guys who don't need them, the less available to the next wave.

No one says boo that Tkachuk and Stutzle played in the NHL at 18, and Chabot at 20.

You think Guhle won't develop his offence to top level this year in the NHL? True, he won't. Neither did Chabot in his 63 games in the NHL at 20. But amazingly enough, that prepared him to break out the next year. Besides, Guhle is more of an all-round D and not an offensive specialist. The specialist is Barron, and I'm ok with having him play in the AHL to learn to defend better so he can be trusted with minutes to generate offence eventually.

The problem is that you view the AHL like the Slovak third league. Guhle will not be insufficiently challenged at all in the AHL.

Again, for every Tkachuk and Stutzle, you have plenty of counter-example of players who ended up disappointing because they got rushed.

Again, I'm not saying Guhle will end disappointing if he starts in the NHL, only that you increase the chance of it being the case.

My view is that Guhle should spend 0.25-1 year in the AHL to work on his offence so he can be a consistent contributor at both ends of the ice.

 

[BaseballCoach]

The problem is that you view the AHL like the Slovak third league. Guhle will not be insufficiently challenged at all in the AHL.

Again, for every Tkachuk and Stutzle, you have plenty of counter-example of players who ended up disappointing because they got rushed.

Again, I'm not saying Guhle will end disappointing if he starts in the NHL, only that you increase the chance of it being the case.

My view is that Guhle should spend 0.25-1 year in the AHL to work on his offence so he can be a consistent contributor at both ends of the ice.

The AHL is of course much better than the Slovak 3rd league, but AHL stars are MILES below NHL stars.

Players who could be learning in the NHL will learn slower in the AHL because only half of what they are learning, AT BEST, will translate without further adaptation. This only applies to, literally as I said, those who could be learning in the NHL. That eliminates the Metes and the Latendresses, non first-rounders who had no business trying to crack an NHL lineup at 19.

Suzuki was a mid-first round pick who developed just fine in the NHL at age 20. He started on the fourth line and "struggled" (didn't get glamorized minutes). Necessary phase, nothing to be embarassed over.

 

[beowulf]

so 8 losses being outscored 31 t8 18...ouch. Preseason or not, that is bad.

 

[Steve Shutt]

Who's our last dman prospect to skip the AHL and make the NHL straight out of Junior? I'm assuming Guhle would be in the company of very few who have come before him in the last few decades.

 

[Treb]

The AHL is of course much better than the Slovak 3rd league, but AHL stars are MILES below NHL stars.

Players who could be learning in the NHL will learn slower in the AHL because only half of what they are learning, AT BEST, will translate without further adaptation. This only applies to, literally as I said, those who could be learning in the NHL. That eliminates the Metes and the Latendresses, non first-rounders who had no business trying to crack an NHL lineup at 19.

Suzuki was a mid-first round pick who developed just fine in the NHL at age 20. He started no the fourth line and "struggled". Necessary phase, nothing to be embarassed over.

That's not what your recent posting indicate.

That's only true if you think Guhle can work on his offensive game as well in the NHL than the AHL. He doesn't have that much to learn on the defensive side, which is what the NHL would be best at teaching him.

Again with the revisionist history regarding Mete I see. I don't remember you arguing against him in the NHL, in fact you seemed pretty supportive of it. You were hinting at him being a potential top4 (if not top2) D. Pretty reminiscent of you hinting Dobes could be the next Dryden.

Unless my memory is faulty, Suzuki did not struggle at 20 though. He was on the 4th line because the coach was a dinosaur. People wanted Suzuki to get a bigger role.

 

[Treb]

Who's our last dman prospect to skip the AHL and make the NHL straight out of Junior? I'm assuming Guhle would be in the company of very few who have come before him in the last few decades.

Mete.

From Europe, Romanov.

Both which ended up struggling offensively compared to their perceived upside.

 

[dinodebino]

Ghule is staying. Not even a question. Kid, go shop for a house; you’re here for 10 years.

The others? No clue what management will decide.

 

[BaseballCoach]

That's not what your recent posting indicate.

That's only true if you think Guhle can work on his offensive game as well in the NHL than the AHL. He doesn't have that much to learn on the defensive side, which is what the NHL would be best at teaching him.

Again with the revisionist history regarding Mete I see. I don't remember you arguing against him in the NHL, in fact you seemed pretty supportive of it. You were hinting at him being a potential top4 (if not top2) D. Pretty reminiscent of you hinting Dobes could be the next Dryden.

Unless my memory is faulty, Suzuki did not struggle at 20 though. He was on the 4th line because the coach was a dinosaur. People wanted Suzuki to get a bigger role.

I was guilty of listening to Timmins regarding Mete, instead of trusting my own eyes. Guhle is mot Mete.

 

[Draft]

Who's our last dman prospect to skip the AHL and make the NHL straight out of Junior? I'm assuming Guhle would be in the company of very few who have come before him in the last few decades.

Mete and Romanov are recent ones. It’s been a long time since we had a prospect of his calibre. Sergachev (though he made the jump with Tampa) is probably our closest comparable.

 

[BaseballCoach]

That's not what your recent posting indicate.

That's only true if you think Guhle can work on his offensive game as well in the NHL than the AHL. He doesn't have that much to learn on the defensive side, which is what the NHL would be best at teaching him.

Again with the revisionist history regarding Mete I see. I don't remember you arguing against him in the NHL, in fact you seemed pretty supportive of it. You were hinting at him being a potential top4 (if not top2) D. Pretty reminiscent of you hinting Dobes could be the next Dryden.

Unless my memory is faulty, Suzuki did not struggle at 20 though. He was on the 4th line because the coach was a dinosaur. People wanted Suzuki to get a bigger role.

And you ignored the Chabot history. Chabot only posted 0.4 ppg his first season in the league. And yet he learned to get better!