OT: MLB Thread XLVI

[Maximus]

Terrible.

Get this as more proof that 2020 might be the worst year on record.

What are the odds that 5 not just baseball players from the past, but 5 Hall of Fame players would all die in a span of a month? How about play the lottery tonight. The odds of your winning would be better.

First my boyfriend hero Tom Seaver dies last month. Than in just the past 3 weeks, you have HOF Lou Brock pass away. Right after that it's HOF Bob Gibson. Than just last week HOF Whitey Ford dies and now today with the news about HOF Joe Morgan passing.

Friggen bizarro world my friends. 2020 seriously cannot end soon enough.

 

[sbjnyc]

Get this as more proof that 2020 might be the worst year on record.

What are the odds that 5 not just baseball players from the past, but 5 Hall of Fame players would all die in a span of a month? How about play the lottery tonight. The odds of your winning would be better.

First my boyfriend hero Tom Seaver dies last month. Than in just the past 3 weeks, you have HOF Lou Brock pass away. Right after that it's HOF Bob Gibson. Than just last week HOF Whitey Ford dies and now today with the news about HOF Joe Morgan passing.

Friggen bizarro world my friends. 2020 seriously cannot end soon enough.

Let's not forget Gale Sayers. Edit yes I know he was a football player but still.

BTW I was a big Seaver fan but I didn't have a crush on him or anything.

 

[Machinehead]

yet without movement the ball would leave the park north of 150mph

It’s all movement as many Major Leaguers can flip the hips and catch a flat 100mph #1.

This is what I'm trying to say about Chapman but nobody believes me because he throws hard.

 

[sbjnyc]

This is an excerpt from an old SI article on hard throwers. https://vault.si.com/vault/1975/06/16/the-bringer-of-the-big-heat

Steve Dalkowski became a fastball legend without ever reaching the big leagues. There are those who saw him, including Oriole Manager Earl Weaver, who consider him to be the hardest thrower of all time. But incurable wildness kept him in the minors, where he set records for both strikeouts and bases on balls. Foul-bunt attempts off Dalkowski's hummer supposedly flew out of the park, and one day he was so wild, it is said, that one of his fastballs shattered a bat rack. But he could bring it.
"He'd come right over the top," says Weaver, "and that ball would rise maybe six inches. I honestly believe he was faster than Ryan."
Efforts to time Dalkowski's high hard one in 1958 proved inconclusive when it required 40 minutes for him to find the range of the timing device. Panting with exhaustion, he was still able to record 93.5 miles an hour.
Such devices are considered suspect by fastballers. When Ryan's pitches were timed at 100.9 and 100.8 mph last year by Rockwell International scientists, Feller, whose recorded best was 98.6 mph, protested that Ryan benefited from more sophisticated hardware. Feller took great pride in being the fastest pitcher on record, and to this day he is nettled by the Ryan timings. "I'm not quibbling, mind you," he said testily the other day, "but comparing the way we were timed is like comparing apples and oranges." For that matter, supporters of Van Lingle Mungo, the colorful Brooklyn fastballer of the '30s, claim he was once timed at 118 mph. They do not say how, though.

 

[Maximus]

Rent free.

"rent free"? Apparently I must be missing the meaning.

 

[Maximus]

Let's not forget Gale Sayers. Edit yes I know he was a football player but still.

BTW I was a big Seaver fan but I didn't have a crush on him or anything.

No if you want to add Sayers to the 5 other Hall of Famers to pass away in the past 4 weeks by all means do so. It's just so wacky that 5 HOF baseball players died in such a short amount of time....that's all.

Not sure what the big difference being a big Seaver fan is to having a man crush on him as it seems like semantics but that's fine.

Seaver was most Met fans my age first man crush as he was the only player the Mets had that was worth anything and he gave us Met fans the only player that Yankee fans were jealous that we had. That was a good feeling back than

 

[sbjnyc]

No if you want to add Sayers to the 5 other Hall of Famers to pass away in the past 4 weeks by all means do so. It's just so wacky that 5 HOF baseball players died in such a short amount of time....that's all.

Not sure what the big difference being a big Seaver fan is to having a man crush on him as it seems like semantics but that's fine.

Seaver was most Met fans my age first man crush as he was the only player the Mets had that was worth anything and he gave us Met fans the only player that they were jealous that we had. That was a good feeling back than

I just thought you meant boyhood instead of boyfriend.

 

[JCProdigy]

Hal Steinbrenner was on The Michael Kay Show today. As expected, Boone is coming back next year and Cashman is going nowhere. Cashman seems to have a lifetime contract as long as the Steinbrenners own the Yankees. They are personally too close to him.

 

[RGY]

Hal Steinbrenner was on The Michael Kay Show today. As expected, Boone is coming back next year and Cashman is going nowhere. Cashman seems to have a lifetime contract as long as the Steinbrenners own the Yankees. They are personally too close to him.

f***ing disgrace.

 

[LeetchisGod]

Hal Steinbrenner was on The Michael Kay Show today. As expected, Boone is coming back next year and Cashman is going nowhere. Cashman seems to have a lifetime contract as long as the Steinbrenners own the Yankees. They are personally too close to him.

Winning titles isn't a priority like it was under George.

 

[JCProdigy]

Winning titles isn't a priority like it was under George.

Eh...winning for any owner will never be as much a priority as it was for George Steinbrenner. I think it still is a pretty big priority because Hal knows that's what the Yankees brand is sold on. Also I lived through George's rash decisions as a kid in the 80s and he was responsible for the joke the franchise had become by 1990.

I think we shouldn't confuse incompetence with apathy. Like I said, Cashman is waaaaaay too close to the Steinbrenners. He's like family so they have a blindspot. I think he looks at all of the moves Cashman's made and Hal can rationalize each one (well most) so he keeps on thinking that this will pay off someday. We've seen this with another owner in NY (ahem...Dolan).

The definition of insanity....

 

[LeetchisGod]

Shocking that a left handed power bat like Freeman is making a big difference in the postseason. With the prevalence of right handed power arms in baseball, I would never have seen this coming.

 

[Machinehead]

Brutal comments from Hal Steinbrenner today.

I think he's the milkman's kid.

 

[Machinehead]

Hal Steinbrenner was on The Michael Kay Show today. As expected, Boone is coming back next year and Cashman is going nowhere. Cashman seems to have a lifetime contract as long as the Steinbrenners own the Yankees. They are personally too close to him.

He also said Sanchez is coming back but was non-committal on retaining LeMahieu.

I hate it here.

 

[LeetchisGod]

He also said Sanchez is coming back but was non-committal on retaining LeMahieu.

I hate it here.

This franchise is doomed. Sanchez should be shot into the sun.

 

[Machinehead]

This franchise is doomed. Sanchez should be shot into the sun.

The Yankees went from having an owner who would write blank checks to win to one of those owners that will actively commit sabotage because winning is expensive.

 

[romba]

They're still so f***in high on Sanchez that they see his terrible year as a cause for celebration due to the discount he''ll take on his 'big' contract. I don't care what the pitchers say, when any pitch can become a passed ball it affects how you throw and try to 'aim' the ball. He's a liability behind the plate, and his bat doesn't come close to countering it.

Aaron Judge injured again for the majority of the season? That saves ANOTHER 15 mil a year, *cheers*.

DJ wasn't drafted by them and has too few strikeo- errr I mean homeruns, so lets just let him walk.

They're infatuated with the stink of their own farts.

 

[JCProdigy]

Wow you guys are overreacting to the DJ thing sooo much. He's a FA ie non cost controlled so they are not about to give his agent any more free ammo. I think it's like 95% likely that they sign him. The Yanks have been great for DJ, and DJ has been great for the Yanks. If they don't resign him, then they deserve all the criticism that's coming their way. I'm just not worried yet.

Sanchez: Yeah I think we're all about done with him and maybe the Yanks are too. They aren't going to trash him on the radio.

....and CAN WE STOP romanticizing George Steinbrenner please. I loved his piss and vinegar and the fact that he'd spend any amount but it wasn't until he was suspended from baseball that the franchise turned around as the baseball people got to actually make smart moves. Even so, he had to be talked out of trading away Bernie, Mo and Pettite early in their careers. Also once he started getting involved again, throwing money wildly at players in the early 2000s (Giambi, Sheffield, Johnson, ARod, etc), the team stopped winning WS. A fan running the team is just as problematic as a robot like Cashman running the team.

The most worrisome thing about the interview to me was again, he didn't acknowledge the piss poor pitching staff that Cashman has constructed.

 

[LeetchisGod]

The main reason that I miss George is that Cashman would have been fired, which is what he deserves. Cashman's evaluation of pitching is atrocious and has been so for a long time.

 

[ElLeetch]

The Yankees went from having an owner who would write blank checks to win to one of those owners that will actively commit sabotage because winning is expensive.

The modern Yankees are run following a Laffer Curve.
https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/tutor2u-media/subjects/economics/laffer_curve_3.jpg
Yes, they could spend more, but the dollars spent start to loose efficiency. you wind up spending more to make a smaller overall % profit, even if its a raw net increase.

Option A: Spend $100M, battle to make the playoffs, a few star players. Revenue = $125M ($25M net)
Option B: Spend $200M, make the 1st and 2nd round often, some star players. Revenue = $275M ($75M net)
Option C: Spend $300M, be in WS 33% of the time, roster of stars. Revenue = $350M ($50M net)
This is true, because the relationships are not linear. No matter how often you win, you can only sell so many seats and so many Judge jerseys. Once you max your seating venue, and saturate the market for memorabilia, you start to run out of headroom market space. There is an ultimate ceiling.
Now, George was an Option C guy. He preferred "making some money, and best shot at winning the WS". But thats not efficient. The efficient option is B, which Hal takes. Its not the highest gross profit, and its less winning, but its the best net profit.
You can see it happen right here, as the two curves start to split:

 

[Machinehead]

The modern Yankees are run following a Laffer Curve.
https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/tutor2u-media/subjects/economics/laffer_curve_3.jpg
Yes, they could spend more, but the dollars spent start to loose efficiency. you wind up spending more to make a smaller overall % profit, even if its a raw net increase.

Option A: Spend $100M, battle to make the playoffs, a few star players. Revenue = $125M ($25M net)
Option B: Spend $200M, make the 1st and 2nd round often, some star players. Revenue = $275M ($75M net)
Option C: Spend $300M, be in WS 33% of the time, roster of stars. Revenue = $350M ($50M net)
This is true, because the relationships are not linear. No matter how often you win, you can only sell so many seats and so many Judge jerseys. Once you max your seating venue, and saturate the market for memorabilia, you start to run out of headroom market space. There is an ultimate ceiling.
Now, George was an Option C guy. He preferred "making some money, and best shot at winning the WS". But thats not efficient. The efficient option is B, which Hal takes. Its not the highest gross profit, and its less winning, but its the best net profit.
You can see it happen right here, as the two curves start to split:

I'm following a Laugher Curve as in the Yankees are a f***ing joke.

 

[JCProdigy]

The modern Yankees are run following a Laffer Curve.
https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/tutor2u-media/subjects/economics/laffer_curve_3.jpg
Yes, they could spend more, but the dollars spent start to loose efficiency. you wind up spending more to make a smaller overall % profit, even if its a raw net increase.

Option A: Spend $100M, battle to make the playoffs, a few star players. Revenue = $125M ($25M net)
Option B: Spend $200M, make the 1st and 2nd round often, some star players. Revenue = $275M ($75M net)
Option C: Spend $300M, be in WS 33% of the time, roster of stars. Revenue = $350M ($50M net)
This is true, because the relationships are not linear. No matter how often you win, you can only sell so many seats and so many Judge jerseys. Once you max your seating venue, and saturate the market for memorabilia, you start to run out of headroom market space. There is an ultimate ceiling.
Now, George was an Option C guy. He preferred "making some money, and best shot at winning the WS". But thats not efficient. The efficient option is B, which Hal takes. Its not the highest gross profit, and its less winning, but its the best net profit.
You can see it happen right here, as the two curves start to split:

Good point but Hal has to be real careful though because this isn't an ordinary business. The Laffer curve still applies but the Yankees franchise is worth $5 billion because they are "winners". 27-time WS champions and all that Jazz. When you trade on that, it's possible for revenue generation to slow in the future as the winning culture starts to fade into the past.

Here's Paul O'Neill's 3 hr game late in '95.



The Yanks were coming off having the best record in the AL in '94 and they were in the middle of wild card race in '95 but they hadn't won the WS since '78. Look at the seats during the HRs. The whole outfield seating is empty. The bleachers are 2/3rds full (mostly because tix cost like $7 back then). George famously wanted to move the Yanks to NJ out of the Bronx because "nobody will ever go to games there".

It wasn't until well into their late '90s run that they started selling out most of their games. Everybody wants to cheer for a winner and that means Championships, not just winning seasons and making the playoffs. George realized this and especially so as there was a resurgence in Yankee fandom in the early 2000s.

 

[Roo Returns]

Good point but Hal has to be real careful though because this isn't an ordinary business. The Laffer curve still applies but the Yankees franchise is worth $5 billion because they are "winners". 27-time WS champions and all that Jazz. When you trade on that, it's possible for revenue generation to slow in the future as the winning culture starts to fade into the past.

Here's Paul O'Neill's 3 hr game late in '95.



The Yanks were coming off having the best record in the AL in '94 and they were in the middle of wild card race in '95 but they hadn't won the WS since '78. Look at the seats during the HRs. The whole outfield seating is empty. The bleachers are 2/3rds full (mostly because tix cost like $7 back then). George famously wanted to move the Yanks to NJ out of the Bronx because "nobody will ever go to games there".

It wasn't until well into their late '90s run that they started selling out most of their games. Everybody wants to cheer for a winner and that means Championships, not just winning seasons and making the playoffs. George realized this and especially so as there was a resurgence in Yankee fandom in the early 2000s.

It was the perfect storm. Stick Michaels and Bob Watson kept things afloat. They also had a lot of luck and players developing the right way at the right time.

 

[JCProdigy]

It was the perfect storm. Stick Michaels and Bob Watson kept things afloat. They also had a lot of luck and players developing the right way at the right time.

Yeah, we'll likely never see 4WS in 5 years again by any team but damn, for how much they put into the team, the Yanks should see more than 1 in 20 years.

 

[sbjnyc]

Good point but Hal has to be real careful though because this isn't an ordinary business. The Laffer curve still applies but the Yankees franchise is worth $5 billion because they are "winners". 27-time WS champions and all that Jazz. When you trade on that, it's possible for revenue generation to slow in the future as the winning culture starts to fade into the past.

While winning helps the Yanks aren't worth $5B because they are winning now but because they are an iconic brand. Just look at the Knicks being the most valuable NBA franchise.