Speculation: Mitch Marner Megathread Part 12 (Note in OP)

[Leaf Fans]

No

Except your opinion IS wrong.

Everyone can have an opinion. It doesn't make it fact.

That doesn't make any sense. My opinion is that the contracts are good, and in fact they are. You on the other hand, think the contracts are bad- they are not.

 

[Legion34]

You might as well stop commenting if you feel Matthews was not overpaid. He was made the 2nd highest paid player in the league all while getting the shortest contract of the top paid players.

And his contract is in line with about 10 historical comparables who signed for 5 years when the cap was expected to go up.

14.27% x 5 is well in line with many comparables who all took 5 years. And then re signed

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Well, based on all the evidence we can only conclude that Dubas won't overpay for Marner as he has not overpaid for anyone else. Marner will probably sign within the next few weeks for training camp. And that some people just repeat their same whining, and that some people are really obessed with the Leafs.

What strange definition of "evidence" do you use to come up with this presidential statement ?

And yes, some people are obese... and some are not.

 

[Legion34]

What strange definition of "evidence" do you use to come up with this presidential statement ?

And yes, some people are obese... and some are not.

I think he means the numerous comparables which ALL show that Matthews and Nylander fit in exactly in the established market values.

 

[Leaf Fans]

What strange definition of "evidence" do you use to come up with this presidential statement ?

And yes, some people are obese... and some are not.

Unless you think the Merriam,- Webster dictionary is strange, no strange definition. Did it really turn out as obese? I am going to blame the phone on that one.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

And his contract is in line with about 10 historical comparables who signed for 5 years when the cap was expected to go up.

14.27% x 5 is well in line with many comparables who all took 5 years. And then re signed

Depends what stats you use when assessing his “comparables”. Based on the stats that (lol) you use, yes, it’s fair market value. Based on the stats others (most) use, it’s a HUGE overpayment. Meet in the middle between those two stances, and it’s still a significant overpayment.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Depends what stats you use when assessing his “comparables”. Based on the stats that (lol) you use, yes, it’s fair market value. Based on the stats others (most) use, it’s a HUGE overpayment. Meet in the middle between those two stances, and it’s still a significant overpayment.

Not most. There are those on the board that will go out of their way to make a good contract look bad. It has been happening in every part of this thread. Some one whines and says the Leafs- Dubas give out bad contracts. Then they are corrected by other posters. They wait a couple pages and rehatch the same nonsense and get corrected again. They complain that they are corrected and rehatch the same malarkey and get corrected again. There are pages and pages of this rigmarole.

 

[CujosMask]

Matthews contract is actually right in line with players of his calibre, one of the best players in the league to be sure, the Leafs are lucky to have him. Nylander's contract is really good also.

Dubas and his management team had to get creative, everyone said it couldn't be done, but they just keep pressing forward. Good time to be a Leafs fan.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Unless you think the Merriam,- Webster dictionary is strange, no strange definition. Did it really turn out as obese? I am going to blame the phone on that one.

Quite a feat of mental gymnastics to have what you call evidence fit into the Merriam-Webster defintion.

I salute your efforts.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Not most. There are those on the board that will go out of their way to make a good contract look bad. It has been happening in every part of this thread. Some one whines and says the Leafs- Dubas give out bad contracts. Then they are corrected by other posters. They wait a couple pages and rehatch the same nonsense and get corrected again. They complain that they are corrected and rehatch the same malarkey and get corrected again. There are pages and pages of this rigmarole.

Mirror, mirror...

 

[Leaf Fans]

Quite a feat of mental gymnastics to have what you call evidence fit into the Merriam-Webster defintion.

I salute your efforts.

Not at all. It is probably online. Definition of EVIDENCE
See for yourself; it fits succinctly.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Mirror, mirror...

Yes great episode. Season 2 episode 4. I like the bearded Spock. Now, back to hockey, specifically Mitch Marner.

 

[Red Piller]

Spacificly

 

[Leaf Fans]

Spacificly

Do you mean specifically? I made the same mistake.

 

[TomP24684]

How many paid MLSE employees have posted in this thread?

 

[FinlandPanther]

Matthews contract is actually right in line with players of his calibre, one of the best players in the league to be sure, the Leafs are lucky to have him. Nylander's contract is really good also.

Dubas and his management team had to get creative, everyone said it couldn't be done, but they just keep pressing forward. Good time to be a Leafs fan.

Lol.

 

[Leaf Fans]

How many paid MLSE employees have posted in this thread?

About as many as paid agents of other teams. I'd say zero.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Lol.

I doubt it belongs in the League of legends, but it is a good contract.

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

Matthews contract is actually right in line with players of his calibre, one of the best players in the league to be sure, the Leafs are lucky to have him. Nylander's contract is really good also.

Dubas and his management team had to get creative, everyone said it couldn't be done, but they just keep pressing forward. Good time to be a Leafs fan.

Matthews contract comes with 2 risks and an added downside.

1) If he continues to fight with yearly injuries the value drops in those years. (but that could be a risk for any player)
2) Bigger risk is if they are unable to extend him past the 5 years. If he re-signs then you could look at this contract as a contributing factor for it happening. The team committing to him and his potential with the $ & term could help to keep him a Leaf into his UFA years. But if it doesn't then this investment backfires a bit as Matthews gets everything he wants and the team doesn't get the payback for "changing the landscape" for him.

The downside is his contract opened the door for Marner to also break the RFA paradigm. (which all the RFA's are now chasing after)

If the team can be successful in the playoffs with this cap model then it's genius... if not it could be seen as the reason management wasn't able to build up the rest of the roster to the point they needed.

A 3rd or 4th round appearance would go a long way to calling this strategy a success.

Hopefully he doesn't bolt on the team in 5 years.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Matthews contract comes with 2 risks and an added downside.

1) If he continues to fight with yearly injuries the value drops in those years. (but that could be a risk for any player)
2) Bigger risk is if they are unable to extend him past the 5 years. If he re-signs then you could look at this contract as a contributing factor for it happening. The team committing to him and his potential with the $ & term could help to keep him a Leaf into his UFA years. But if it doesn't then this investment backfires a bit as Matthews gets everything he wants and the team doesn't get the payback for "changing the landscape" for him.

The downside is his contract opened the door for Marner to also break the RFA paradigm. (which all the RFA's are now chasing after)

If the team can be successful in the playoffs with this cap model then it's genius... if not it could be seen as the reason management wasn't able to build up the rest of the roster to the point they needed.

A 3rd or 4th round appearance would go a long way to calling this strategy a success.

Hopefully he doesn't bolt on the team in 5 years.

Depends how the team performs. If we can't build him a team that makes him want to stay than he should leave.

 

[Sniperberg]

Has he signed yet?

 

[Leaf Fans]

Has he signed yet?

Not yet. He is in the same situation as all the other to RFAs. I am sure there will be a separate thread for the signing.

 

[Tripod]

The downside is his contract opened the door for Marner to also break the RFA paradigm. (which all the RFA's are now chasing after)

If the team can be successful in the playoffs with this cap model then it's genius... if not it could be seen as the reason management wasn't able to build up the rest of the roster to the point they needed.

A 3rd or 4th round appearance would go a long way to calling this strategy a success.

Hopefully he doesn't bolt on the team in 5 years.

100% agreed that Matthews contract is now what every RFA wants...top money AND less term. Can't blame Marner for wanting it when he just outproduced Matthews in REAL points and PPG as well as outproduced Tavares to boot.

Any dumb GM could have made Matthews the #2 paid player in the league and get bent over in term. That's what Dubas did. It should have been an easy negotiation: on an 8 year deal, you get less than McDavid, more than Eichel. But if you only want 5 years, then no, you don't become the 2nd highest paid player in the league.

Matthews is clearly being paid for what the Leafs hope he becomes. Meanwhile, Marner and his agent are sitting there saying Marner has a 94 point season in his pocket, Matthews a 73. Marner also just posted a better PPG than Matthews ever has. Marner HAS done, what Matthews is expected to do. So of course he wants the same treatment....big money and short term.

After all...if the Matthews contract is good, then why not sign Marner to that same type of good contract too? Big money and 5 years. Oh that's right....because everyone that is not biased can see that giving Matthews 5 years is an awful decision. There is a reason why other teams fans don't want this as the new norm...because it sucks. Think Avs fans want Rant signed for 5 years....or 8? Of course not. Because it's paying them big money now AND bigger in 5 years, not 8, when they become a UFA. Or they possibly lose that player 3 years earlier.

1 player not signed for 7 or 8 years that is top 20 in cap hit: Matthews. Time will tell if the other top RFA follow suit and the Matthews contract is to blame. Or if other GM's stick to their guns of negotiating and make RFA's choose one or the other...big money, or less term...not both. Anybody can give out big money and no term to a RFA...as we have seen.

 

[DomBarr]

No

That doesn't make any sense. My opinion is that the contracts are good, and in fact they are. You on the other hand, think the contracts are bad- they are not.

Your post makes as much sense as the original. In fact it hasn't been determined if the contracts are good or bad that won't be known in fact for 5 yrs, so all there is a difference of opinions.

 

[Leaf Fans]

100% agreed that Matthews contract is now what every RFA wants...top money AND less term. Can't blame Marner for wanting it when he just outproduced Matthews in REAL points and PPG as well as outproduced Tavares to boot.

Any dumb GM could have made Matthews the #2 paid player in the league and get bent over in term. That's what Dubas did. It should have been an easy negotiation: on an 8 year deal, you get less than McDavid, more than Eichel. But if you only want 5 years, then no, you don't become the 2nd highest paid player in the league.

Matthews is clearly being paid for what the Leafs hope he becomes. Meanwhile, Marner and his agent are sitting there saying Marner has a 94 point season in his pocket, Matthews a 73. Marner also just posted a better PPG than Matthews ever has. Marner HAS done, what Matthews is expected to do. So of course he wants the same treatment....big money and short term.

After all...if the Matthews contract is good, then why not sign Marner to that same type of good contract too? Big money and 5 years. Oh that's right....because everyone that is not biased can see that giving Matthews 5 years is an awful decision. There is a reason why other teams fans don't want this as the new norm...because it sucks. Think Avs fans want Rant signed for 5 years....or 8? Of course not. Because it's paying them big money now AND bigger in 5 years, not 8, when they become a UFA. Or they possibly lose that player 3 years earlier.

1 player not signed for 7 or 8 years that is top 20 in cap hit: Matthews. Time will tell if the other top RFA follow suit and the Matthews contract is to blame. Or if other GM's stick to their guns of negotiating and make RFA's choose one or the other...big money, or less term...not both. Anybody can give out big money and no term to a RFA...as we have seen.

I don't think any dumb GMs could make the Matthews contract. They are too busy with their own teams. Of course in Toronto, we have an excellent GM. You would have to resort to making up nonsense about what Marner and his agent are doing just to manufacture support.
It is just as wrong now as it was earlier.