Speculation: Mitch Marner Megathread Part 12 (Note in OP)

[Martin Skoula]

100% agreed that Matthews contract is now what every RFA wants...top money AND less term. Can't blame Marner for wanting it when he just outproduced Matthews in REAL points and PPG as well as outproduced Tavares to boot.

Any dumb GM could have made Matthews the #2 paid player in the league and get bent over in term. That's what Dubas did. It should have been an easy negotiation: on an 8 year deal, you get less than McDavid, more than Eichel. But if you only want 5 years, then no, you don't become the 2nd highest paid player in the league.

Matthews is clearly being paid for what the Leafs hope he becomes. Meanwhile, Marner and his agent are sitting there saying Marner has a 94 point season in his pocket, Matthews a 73. Marner also just posted a better PPG than Matthews ever has. Marner HAS done, what Matthews is expected to do. So of course he wants the same treatment....big money and short term.

After all...if the Matthews contract is good, then why not sign Marner to that same type of good contract too? Big money and 5 years. Oh that's right....because everyone that is not biased can see that giving Matthews 5 years is an awful decision. There is a reason why other teams fans don't want this as the new norm...because it sucks. Think Avs fans want Rant signed for 5 years....or 8? Of course not. Because it's paying them big money now AND bigger in 5 years, not 8, when they become a UFA. Or they possibly lose that player 3 years earlier.

1 player not signed for 7 or 8 years that is top 20 in cap hit: Matthews. Time will tell if the other top RFA follow suit and the Matthews contract is to blame. Or if other GM's stick to their guns of negotiating and make RFA's choose one or the other...big money, or less term...not both. Anybody can give out big money and no term to a RFA...as we have seen.

Can you name some other first RFA contracts for top players that were 8 years besides McDavid, Eichel, and Draisaitl?

 

[Tripod]

I don't think any dumb GMs could make the Matthews contract. They are too busy with their own teams. Of course in Toronto, we have an excellent GM. You would have to resort to making up nonsense about what Marner and his agent are doing just to manufacture support.
It is just as wrong now as it was earlier.

You have already proven to be a biased Leaf fan. Good day.

 

[Tripod]

Can you name some other first RFA contracts for top players that were 8 years besides McDavid, Eichel, and Draisaitl?

Can you name other players who have never been top 20 in scoring become the 2nd highest paid player in the league coming off his ELC?

 

[Leaf Fans]

You have already proven to be a biased Leaf fan. Good day.

No, I have proved myself impartial, all the while being a Leafs fan.

 

[cpsman]

Can you name some other first RFA contracts for top players that were 8 years besides McDavid, Eichel, and Draisaitl?

Why should he name other examples? You just gave three VERY relevant and recent examples of top tier RFAs signing for 8 years.

This is the ridiculousness of those defending the Matthews contract... "yeah sure, but can you ignore all the rational logic you just posted and just give me more examples outside of that? You probably can't"

 

[Tripod]

Why should he name other examples? You just gave three VERY relevant and recent examples of top tier RFAs signing for 8 years.

This is the ridiculousness of those defending the Matthews contract... "yeah sure, but can you ignore all the rational logic you just posted and just give me more examples outside of that? You probably can't"

Psst...but yet I can...Doughty signed for 8 years off his ELC too. So there are more.

 

[Merrrlin]

Can you name other players who have never been top 20 in scoring become the 2nd highest paid player in the league coming off his ELC?

There are better stats than points totals to see the value of the player.

You seem to be insanely invested in arguing that the Mathews contract is bad. At least let the kid play a single year of it.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Psst...but yet I can...Doughty signed for 8 years off his ELC too. So there are more.

That is correct! He did sign 8 years at @7 million.

 

[Tripod]

There are better stats than points totals to see the value of the player.

You seem to be insanely invested in arguing that the Mathews contract is bad. At least let the kid play a single year of it.

His contract IS bad...because the Leafs didn't get term or a lower cap hit. Matthews got both of what he wanted. And I have also said multiple times that Matthews IS a good player. But he is still a player who has not been top 20 in points OR PPG. To give in and make him the #2 paid player(now3) AND not get term when doing so, is a bad deal.

Now, Matthews has to be a top 5 player and point producer just to make that contract fair...let alone good. Leafs took all the risk, Matthews took all the money.

And now back to Marner...of course he wants the same thing. And I have said repeatedly that I hope things correct themselves and Marner signs for 8 years if he gets big money. I hope Matthews is the only outlier. Because if someone like Rantanen or Marner signs for 11 million and 5 years, then GM's are not doing their jobs. Get at least 7/8 years for that top money.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Why should he name other examples? You just gave three VERY relevant and recent examples of top tier RFAs signing for 8 years.

This is the ridiculousness of those defending the Matthews contract... "yeah sure, but can you ignore all the rational logic you just posted and just give me more examples outside of that? You probably can't"

5 year deals were the norm for a decade, then 3 contracts get signed and everyone pretends it's the new normal. McDavid and co are the outliers here for contract length.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

No, I have proved myself impartial, all the while being a Leafs fan.

What ?

 

[CDN24]

His contract IS bad...because the Leafs didn't get term or a lower cap hit. Matthews got both of what he wanted. And I have also said multiple times that Matthews IS a good player. But he is still a player who has not been top 20 in points OR PPG. To give in and make him the #2 paid player(now3) AND not get term when doing so, is a bad deal.

Now, Matthews has to be a top 5 player and point producer just to make that contract fair...let alone good. Leafs took all the risk, Matthews took all the money.

And now back to Marner...of course he wants the same thing. And I have said repeatedly that I hope things correct themselves and Marner signs for 8 years if he gets big money. I hope Matthews is the only outlier. Because if someone like Rantanen or Marner signs for 11 million and 5 years, then GM's are not doing their jobs. Get at least 7/8 years for that top money.

Exactly this. Matthews is a great player and has the potential to be a top 3 player in the league. But the contract is awful. For this to be a fair contract he has to become that top 3 player. The dollars are marginal on an 8 year deal if he hits that potential. Leafs took all the risk and messed up their cap situation and a bunch of other teams. Doubt anybody will be picking up dubas' bar tab at the next GM meetings.

Big bet for the leafs to make given the best outcome is its a fair contract.

 

[Legion34]

Depends what stats you use when assessing his “comparables”. Based on the stats that (lol) you use, yes, it’s fair market value. Based on the stats others (most) use, it’s a HUGE overpayment. Meet in the middle between those two stances, and it’s still a significant overpayment.

Goals. Goals per game. Points. Points per game are the stats that I use.

They are the same every time.

You use points for leaf players and ELC goals for jets.

But at least you have agreed it’s not a “dramatic” difference overpay. So hey we are getting somewhere

 

[Legion34]

Can you name other players who have never been top 20 in scoring become the 2nd highest paid player in the league coming off his ELC?

I can name a player who was the first to be second in goals as a rookie.

I can name a player who when you consider every players first 3 years.

Has been 4th in total goals, 2nd In goals per game. 10th in total points. 7th in ppg

That player probably deserves 14.27%. Because every player who outperformed him in those categories. Got 15.34-17.3% on their contracts

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Can you name some other first RFA contracts for top players that were 8 years besides McDavid, Eichel, and Draisaitl?

Tarasenko and Ekblad come to mind. As well as Doughty who was mentioned above.

 

[DomBarr]

5 year deals were the norm for a decade, then 3 contracts get signed and everyone pretends it's the new normal. McDavid and co are the outliers here for contract length.

thats actually somewhat incorrect. while under the old CBAs it was more common. under the current CBA the norm has been for 6+ years for high level players coming out of their ELC and when the Cap hits were exceeding 10% they were for 7/8 years, There is a reason that the Matthews contract was viewed as being unprecedented.

 

[Ciccio1980]

Doughty's 8 year contract was his 3rd contract

 

[Blueboy]

Technically, it sort of IS a Dubas thread as he's one of the primary reason we're still talking about these supposed contract negotiations mere days away from September.

Dubas isn’t the primary reason people are talking about RFA negotiations. It makes no sense to suggest that.

 

[CDN24]

Doughty's 8 year contract was his 3rd contract

his second was also 8 years

 

[Divine]

Can you name other players who have never been top 20 in scoring become the 2nd highest paid player in the league coming off his ELC?

Jack Eichel

 

[Dr Pepper]

Dubas isn’t the primary reason people are talking about RFA negotiations. It makes no sense to suggest that.

It does, actually.

I said Dubas is one of the primary reason we're talking about THIS RFA negotiation.

As in, he's the guy who needs to sign current RFA Mitch Marner.

He hasn't done it yet, thus this thread is still open.

Does that help?

 

[DomBarr]

Jack Eichel

not really his contract AAV was not as large as Toews and Kane.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Jack Eichel

Eichel was never made the 2nd highest paid player in the league.

 

[Strait2thecup]

There are better stats than points totals to see the value of the player.

You seem to be insanely invested in arguing that the Mathews contract is bad. At least let the kid play a single year of it.

No, it’s just bad. 1 UFA year, second highest paid player in the league and has never scored 80 points. Dubas got bent over a barrel there pretty clearly and it’s really the primary reason none of these RFAs are sigining

 

[Legion34]

Exactly this. Matthews is a great player and has the potential to be a top 3 player in the league. But the contract is awful. For this to be a fair contract he has to become that top 3 player. The dollars are marginal on an 8 year deal if he hits that potential. Leafs took all the risk and messed up their cap situation and a bunch of other teams. Doubt anybody will be picking up dubas' bar tab at the next GM meetings.

Big bet for the leafs to make given the best outcome is its a fair contract.

Sorry when have top 3 players took 14.27% on their 2 deals.