Mitch Marner Discussion Thread

[Notsince67]

If the leafs have to pay people like Marner 11x6, while Tampa can pay people like Kucherov 9.5x8 (for whatever reasons you’re giving), then the leafs simply have no chance whatsoever to win a cup. Like NONE. So why are any of us even bothering? Why are we here? Why are we watching?

why are you watching...good question.
How is it you are all over Marner this year and kutcherov isn't even a point a game. Point wise, Marner is producing 25 % more but is paid only 15.8% more with higher taxes to boot. I demand consistency from you

 

[Throw More Waffles]

why are you watching...good question.
How is it you are all over Marner this year and kutcherov isn't even a point a game. Point wise, Marner is producing 25 % more but is paid only 15.8% more with higher taxes to boot. I demand consistency from you

To start, you need to include term in the equation.

But otherwise, unreasonable contracts come with unreasonable expectations.
If Marner signed a reasonable contract (which pretty much everybody agrees Kucherov signed), then I’d have much more reasonable expectations for his play.

 

[MarnerElite]

If the leafs have to pay people like Marner 11x6, while Tampa can pay people like Kucherov 9.5x8 (for whatever reasons you’re giving), then the leafs simply have no chance whatsoever to win a cup. Like NONE. So why are any of us even bothering? Why are we here? Why are we watching?

I can only speak for myself but..I explained in another thread but Leafs winning or not winning the Cup changes nothing for me. The reason i kinda dislike this team now has nothing to do with Leafs winning or losing. It has to do with them playing uninspiring hockey(sometimes they even win and i'm so underwhelmed because the opponent looked quite a bit better than us..basically one of those cheap wins where your goalie plays so well and your star forwards just do enough). I have watched those teams when they were shit(in terms of their record...and i actually loved how on most nights they were actually outplaying teams with a lot more skill..i was always able to at least say..'we played really well and that game was so close'..now it's like 'why do i watch this shit when these guys don't even seem to care?'). I will certainly continue watching if i see the right kind of product on the ice because for me it's bigger than just winning or losing(obviously everyone would rather win).

But anyways, i always laugh when people only watch to see wins..I was huge on the Raps years ago and i literally had a few seconds of "wow, they finally won it...amazing!" Shortly after that, it was over and my life went back to still being pretty great. So i just don't care about that whole temporary happiness. I'm still going to get up each and every morning and do those things that give my life meaning and what makes me happy. Leafs are just a tiny bit of bonus but it doesn't make a huge difference either way. I compared it to a nice show that we all like to watch..I don't care too much about how it will end but what happens throughout the season(and hopefully more fun than not) is why i keep watching. The more entertaining it is the more i'll watch and support them.

 

[Notsince67]

To start, you need to include term in the equation.

But otherwise, unreasonable contracts come with unreasonable expectations.
If Marner signed a reasonable contract (which pretty much everybody agrees Kucherov signed), then I’d have much more reasonable expectations for his play.

What are you talking about.
Marner is out producing Kucherov at a rate greater than the salary difference. there is a 4 year difference in age and when marner is done, kucherov will be 32 years old. You have nothing except tired arguments that dont change.
Stop watching already because nothing will make you happy

 

[Antropovsky]

Even strength goals after 14 games:
Johnsson 2
Nylander 2
Gauthier 2
Kapanen 1
marner 1
Shore 1 (11 games)
Timashov 1 (11 games)
Spezza 0 (8 games)

Yikes

 

[Al14]

To start, you need to include term in the equation.

But otherwise, unreasonable contracts come with unreasonable expectations.
If Marner signed a reasonable contract (which pretty much everybody agrees Kucherov signed), then I’d have much more reasonable expectations for his play.

Exactly right!

Marner got paid, now, he has to live with the hate for his greediness! He should have done himself a favor and signed an offersheet that gave our Leafs 4 first round picks.

JMHO.

 

[Antropovsky]

Exactly right!

Marner got paid, now, he has to live with the hate for his greediness! He should have done himself a favor and signed an offersheet that gave our Leafs 4 first round picks.

JMHO.

I just dont get why Dubas gave Marner four first round pick compensation money.

I get it for Matthews... sure teams would've paid the max cap for him. But I find it very very unlikely anyone is gonna pay Marner 10.8 AND lose 4 firsts.

That is an incredible risk.

Should've let him sit like Nylander did. We had the skill to win without him.

Dubas had the leverage and he didnt use it.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I just dont get why Dubas gave Marner four first round pick compensation money.

I get it for Matthews... sure teams would've paid the max cap for him. But I find it very very unlikely anyone is gonna pay Marner 10.8 AND lose 4 firsts.

That is an incredible risk.

Should've let him sit like Nylander did. We had the skill to win without him.

Dubas had the leverage and he didnt use it.

Do you realize how it makes leaf fans look when we write things like Matthews would have gotten a 16 million aav offer sheet?

No team would have even offered 11.6x5+4 first round picks. NOBODY would have offered that.

 

[Notsince67]

I just dont get why Dubas gave Marner four first round pick compensation money.

I get it for Matthews... sure teams would've paid the max cap for him. But I find it very very unlikely anyone is gonna pay Marner 10.8 AND lose 4 firsts.

That is an incredible risk.

Should've let him sit like Nylander did. We had the skill to win without him.

Dubas had the leverage and he didnt use it.

yikes. You sure have an active imagination

 

[Hustlr]

No team would have even offered 11.6x5+4 first round picks. NOBODY would have offered that.

Strongly disagree.

 

[IPS]

Matty is probably one of maybe 5 guys who can do it. But to me he is like the 4th or 5th wheel in that grouping after McJesus, MAC and Crosby. We were talking Mitch here. I mentioned Kuch for a reason. He is a little better than Mitch as he has a great shot but he still could not drive a line by himself.

Matthews may just turn out to be the best goal scorer in the world at some point.

Atleast he's capable of extraordinary things to justify his extraordinary contract.

Marner though - just lmao. It's gonna start setting in that we paid an 80-85 point winger like a 100+ point center.

 

[Antropovsky]

Do you realize how it makes leaf fans look when we write things like Matthews would have gotten a 16 million aav offer sheet?

No team would have even offered 11.6x5+4 first round picks. NOBODY would have offered that.

OMG do you realize what you have done!!!!!

Tavares was reportedly offered 13 million over 7 years by the sharks last offseason.

A team wouldve offered it, prob short term. Still no doubt he wouldve gotten a huge offersheet, much more than the one he has now.

 

[Notsince67]

Matthews may just turn out to be the best goal scorer in the world at some point.

Atleast he's capable of extraordinary things to justify his extraordinary contract.

Marner though - just lmao. It's gonna start setting in that we paid an 80-85 point winger like a 100+ point center.

he hasn't been below 90 for almost 2 years. How long do we have to wait?

 

[Throw More Waffles]

OMG do you realize what you have done!!!!!

Tavares was reportedly offered 13 million over 7 years by the sharks last offseason.

A team wouldve offered it, prob short term. Still no doubt he wouldve gotten a huge offersheet, much more than the one he has now.

There is absolutely no way any team was going to offer more than what the leafs did (for a career high 70 point player) PLUS 4 first round picks. No way in hell.

Point is almost as good (some say AS good). Look at his offersheets...

And imagine a team giving up FOUR FIRST ROUND PICKS for a "short term" contract with matthews. Whata joke.

 

[hector morrison]

To start, you need to include term in the equation.

But otherwise, unreasonable contracts come with unreasonable expectations.
If Marner signed a reasonable contract (which pretty much everybody agrees Kucherov signed), then I’d have much more reasonable expectations for his play.

Well then ,there is the problem! Your expectations are based on a dollar /point ratio...ridiculous notion.There is a cap,so that's how much they can spend. As if you would spend it any wiser if it were your money. Pretend your not aware of the financials of any team and you will enjoy it more. Honest!If the money for Nhl players bothers you,then don't delve into other sports...you might have a breakdown.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Well then ,there is the problem! Your expectations are based on a dollar /point ratio...ridiculous notion.There is a cap,so that's how much they can spend. As if you would spend it any wiser if it were your money. Pretend your not aware of the financials of any team and you will enjoy it more. Honest!If the money for Nhl players bothers you,then don't delve into other sports...you might have a breakdown.

Nope. Outrageous contracts come with outrageous expectations. Want fair expectations? Then sign a fair contract.

He did this to himself.

I wouldn't care if Marner made 200 million per year, if that was the going rate for comparable players. But the reality is that he was VASTLY overpaid based on his direct comparables.

 

[hector morrison]

Nope. Outrageous contracts come with outrageous expectations. Want fair expectations? Then sign a fair contract.

He did this to himself.

I wouldn't care if Marner made 200 million per year, if that was the going rate for comparable players. But the reality is that he was VASTLY overpaid based on his direct comparables.

I don't usually check the point leaders this early in the season..but you got my curiosity up...So Matthews/Marner are both in the top 15 ....what were your expectations?Also,their minutes played are still a fair bit less a game than some of the guys ahead of them. I know some crazy fans don't think that is relevant,but it is!

Agreed that big contract comes with the responsibility of performing well...but we all likely agree that even if Marner led the league in points (Kucherov) and the team bowed out in the first round again,that those points wouldn't matter at all(except for poolies).

 

[IPS]

I don't usually check the point leaders this early in the season..but you got my curiosity up...So Matthews/Marner are both in the top 15 ....what were your expectations?Also,their minutes played are still a fair bit less a game than some of the guys ahead of them. I know some crazy fans don't think that is relevant,but it is!

Agreed that big contract comes with the responsibility of performing well...but we all likely agree that even if Marner led the league in points (Kucherov) and the team bowed out in the first round again,that those points wouldn't matter at all(except for poolies).

Doesn't it also beg a question of you about why our management is rubber stamping the clear under utilization of these overpaid players? You can very well argue that this type of under usage is costing us points in the standings - points that could contribute to us possibly winning home ice advantage in the 1st round. Who knows what would have happened the last 2 years if we didn't under-use our star players and we did win home ice advantage.

I'm completely baffled why we are handing out these massive contracts but refuse to make the most out of these players we're paying massive dollars to. It's not even like we're depriving them of hard minutes either, we're actually depriving them of PP time - the least fatiguing yet most effective offensive minutes they can play. It makes no god damn sense at all.

 

[IPS]

Where did Zeke go?

I miss the exchanges between Zeke vs Throw More Waffles. Hands down the most intriguing and entertaining arguments this board can have.

 

[Bomber0104]

Where did Zeke go?

I miss the exchanges between Zeke vs Throw More Waffles. Hands down the most intriguing and entertaining arguments this board can have.

Zeke's back at the lab wondering why Tyler Bozak still isn't as good as Patrice Bergeron..

Because of "stats" and stuff...

 

[LeafingTheWay]

Zeke's back at the lab wondering why Tyler Bozak still isn't as good as Patrice Bergeron..

Because of "stats" and stuff...

lol what. Zeke and I had a lot of debates, but he never once tried comparing Bozak to Bergeron. Don't be silly.

 

[Bomber0104]

lol what. Zeke and I had a lot of debates, but he never once tried comparing Bozak to Bergeron. Don't be silly.

You joined in 2014.

There's many worse than that, trust me.

Remember Ian White? Matt Stajan? James Reimer? Norris candidate Dion Phaneuf?

Let me tell you, Zeke had big-time "stats" for them too !

 

[LeafingTheWay]

You joined in 2014.

There's many worse than that, trust me...

That's true. How was HFBoards during the 2012-2013 season when we made the playoffs? Guessing it was more exciting that now, since that team wasn't even expected to go that far.

 

[IPS]

That's true. How was HFBoards during the 2012-2013 season when we made the playoffs? Guessing it was more exciting that now, since that team wasn't even expected to go that far.

Not really.

Lots of folks were adamant that our team was adequate defensively even though we got majorly out-shot on a regular basis. I was told that our system under Carlyle was "designed to keep shots to the outside" so there was no need to worry about our alarmingly bad shot differential.

 

[Bomber0104]

That's true. How was HFBoards during the 2012-2013 season when we made the playoffs? Guessing it was more exciting that now, since that team wasn't even expected to go that far.

There was definitely a bigger pro-Burke/Leafs contingent on HF back then.

The few critical posters during that time (like myself) were given a rough time.

Ultimately we were proven right however.

The Leafs were an absolute disaster like people like me were saying all along (unlike the Zeke's of the world), all of the coaches/GM's associated with those teams were fired, we were given the tank-style rebuild that we wanted with Lou and voila - we've arrive at the post-rebuild phase of the team with Dubas...

Who then decided to turn the team into some idealistic utopian non-contact version of blog-stat hockey he probably thought of after a night of watching Moneyball with Brad Pitt and Mary Jane.

Oh and did I mention he also doesn't know how to negotiate contracts either?