Miscellaneous NHL Talk XXIV

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Appleyard

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Mar 5, 2010
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And yet Pens fans don't believe us when we say we showed the league the blueprint on how to beat them....get them emotionally engaged.

I think losing Staal (they really had little choice to be fair) really hurt them as well.

Sutter is nothing on him and Staal generally brought calm to a game, controlled, clinical play on both sides of the puck and meant matchup nightmares for the whole league like we really have not seen in the cap era.

Staal usually did not get involved in all the crap (or limited himself to sensible involvement, ie involvement that did not hinder his team) and just focused on shutting down the opponent.

That crazy series vs us it seemed at times as though he was stood there doing pretty much everything right, getting them back into games, playing great on both sides of the puck, while the rest of the team crumbled mentally around him.
 

ILoveStephanieBrown

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Nov 6, 2012
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Some of them are talking about blowing up the core, trading Crosby or Malkin, even citing us as an example when Richards and Carter were shipped out.

May sound like an overreaction, but it would help their depth issues. Imagine what either of them could return.
 

Jtown

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Oct 6, 2010
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Some of them are talking about blowing up the core, trading Crosby or Malkin, even citing us as an example when Richards and Carter were shipped out.

May sound like an overreaction, but it would help their depth issues. Imagine what either of them could return.

If I were them i would honestly consider trading one of them. Imagine what they could get if they sent crosby to st. louis or anaheim.
 

OrangeAndBlackMetal

Dark Wizard of the Black Cascade
Aug 14, 2009
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I honestly don't beleive that the Penguins will win another cup in the Crosby era... And I'm ok with that.

And Appleyard: I was thinking that same thing the other day. The team really hasn't been a real contender since they traded Staal. He was the perfect complement to that team and played an extremely necessary role for them. I was so happy when they traded him. He always seemed to step it up when it mattered.
 

Striiker

Earthquake Survivor
Jun 2, 2013
89,680
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Crosby and Malkin are both so weak minded it's insane, when the two top players of a team get agitated and unraveled that easily it sets a tone for the whole team.

If I were them I'd absolutely trade one of them and get a #1D in return, specifically someone who's a real leader.

Luckily for us, I doubt that happens so they'll probably just waste both of their careers there as regular season superstars and playoff chokers.
 

Beef Invictus

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Dec 21, 2009
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I think losing Staal (they really had little choice to be fair) really hurt them as well.

Sutter is nothing on him and Staal generally brought calm to a game, controlled, clinical play on both sides of the puck and meant matchup nightmares for the whole league like we really have not seen in the cap era.

Staal usually did not get involved in all the crap (or limited himself to sensible involvement, ie involvement that did not hinder his team) and just focused on shutting down the opponent.

That crazy series vs us it seemed at times as though he was stood there doing pretty much everything right, getting them back into games, playing great on both sides of the puck, while the rest of the team crumbled mentally around him.

I agree. Staal was a player they needed to keep. Honestly, they should've sought to keep him over Fleury.

Fleury is utterly replaceable. Staal's two-way play is not.
 

OrangeAndBlackMetal

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I agree. Staal was a player they needed to keep. Honestly, they should've sought to keep him over Fleury.

Fleury is utterly replaceable. Staal's two-way play is not.

Interesting, I hadn't thought of that. Yeah they should have invested that money in Staal, that was ridiculously stupid... And not even in hindsight either, Fleury has always clearly been an idiot and it was pretty simple to see how important Staal was to their team.
 

Curufinwe

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Feb 28, 2013
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JStaal always scared the **** out of me. I was very happy when he bolted to be with his bros.
 

BernieParent

In misery of redwings of suckage for a long time
Mar 13, 2009
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On last night's game, not to be a contrarian to the idea of the Penguins losing their cool = losing game, but didn't they get all pseudo-goony after the game was out of reach? I only saw the highlights, but both incidents were after the Caps were up 4-0 in the 3rd, no?
 

Beef Invictus

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pitt offered the same contract he signed in carolina and he refused. He clearly wanted out of pittsburgh and who could blame him.

This is true. Forgot he was all gung ho about losing badly with his brother.

Carolina must be a frustrating franchise to follow. I mean their D group has completely collapsed, but for a few years they were always worse than their roster indicated they should be. When you eyeball their talent, they have a solid core. But then you actually see them play and realize Rutherford hasn't done a good job building around his players. And now he's in charge of building around Crosby/Malkin.

tumblr_lnwy9d0X5u1qh2mpqo1_500.gif
 

renberg

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Dec 31, 2003
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The J Staal deal is a reasonable case study for why Hextall shouldn't entertain ideas about trading "3rd line centre" Couturier.
Excellent point. Sutter hasn't been an adequate replacement for Staal. He snuck up on teams his first year with the Pens but since then, not so much.
Pittsburgh has probably had their run. Crosby hasn't played the same since he had his bell rung versus the Caps. Malkin's knees are letting him down. The best that he can do is lumber around the ice. The rest of the team's core is getting older and losing their skills. None of the schmucks that they have in their system are anything more than AHL players. Trading off draft picks to acquire players like Perron is a quick fix/long term loss situation.
 

flyershockey

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The Penguins have been a mentally soft team since getting Halak'd in the 2009-2010 playoffs.
 

BackToTheBrierePatch

Nope not today.
Feb 19, 2003
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On last night's game, not to be a contrarian to the idea of the Penguins losing their cool = losing game, but didn't they get all pseudo-goony after the game was out of reach? I only saw the highlights, but both incidents were after the Caps were up 4-0 in the 3rd, no?

didn't see the game. Only highlight I saw was the Ovechkin "penalty". Some said there was a slew foot by Brower later in the period that triggered things.
 

Beef Invictus

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When judging Couturier's worth and whether we should consider trading him back around that time, I discovered that every Cup winning team going back to the 05 lockout had a high-level two way center, and always one who had recently been a Selke finalist. It was as "mandatory" as a #1 dman and solid goaltending.

So with that knowledge I was really ecstatic to see the Pens lose Staal. I haven't worried about seeing them win another Cup since. I won't worry about it again until they get someone else like that.
 

Beef Invictus

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The Penguins have been a mentally soft team since getting Halak'd in the 2009-2010 playoffs.

That was also the first time I remember Crosby losing his mind and crumbling; I think it was the game where they were eliminated where he came out for an opening faceoff, immediately ran a dman, took a blatant penalty, and Montreal scored quickly on the PP. It's still one of the dumbest plays I've seen from a team leader, ever.
 

flyershockey

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Oct 10, 2006
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That was also the first time I remember Crosby losing his mind and crumbling; I think it was the game where they were eliminated where he came out for an opening faceoff, immediately ran a dman, took a blatant penalty, and Montreal scored quickly on the PP. It's still one of the dumbest plays I've seen from a team leader, ever.

Yup, and Montreal figured out that guys like Lapierre and Moore could get in the heads of Crosby and Malkin. As much as we like to credit the Flyers with coming up with that gameplan, it was actually Montreal. The Flyers have continued to perfect it.
 

BackToTheBrierePatch

Nope not today.
Feb 19, 2003
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That was also the first time I remember Crosby losing his mind and crumbling; I think it was the game where they were eliminated where he came out for an opening faceoff, immediately ran a dman, took a blatant penalty, and Montreal scored quickly on the PP. It's still one of the dumbest plays I've seen from a team leader, ever.

there was also a play I recall where a player just stepped around Malkin like he was standing still and the guy went in for a breakaway goal. Malkin didn't even chase the guy. Might have been Cammalleri. don't remember the Habs players name.
 

Garbage Goal

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Apr 1, 2009
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Losing Staal is the biggest single player loss that hurt them, but it's really a symptom of a larger, overlying fault that they always have had since the Cup win that they don't seem to care about their depth whatsoever or seem all that interested in being disciplined. They downgraded from Staal. Over the years they've done stupid trades that seem small, like Goc for Lapierre as the most recent example, but are clear player downgrades and add up. Now it adds up to their lineup after Crosby/Malkin/Hornqvist/Dupuis consisting of useless players like Sill/Adams, tough guy plugs like Lapierre/Farnham, and aging declining players like Kunitz/Scuderi. That's all really stupid and adds up.

The Pens seem to have embraced a "we need to get tougher" mentality when in reality they just need to be a more disciplined team and have higher quality depth as well as fresh blood for the top six winger positions. Instead they hang on to guys like Kunitz and Dupis, bring in guys like Lapierre and Downie all while for no reason whatsoever ignoring the useless guys like Sill/Adams. They also seem to be stupid with coaches considering how long Bylsma was kept on, how Johnston seems to be trending, and how the polar opposite of Bylsma could be used.

That organization's answer to everything seems to be "get tougher" and "exchange spare parts to get tougher" even though it's really just shuffling out deck chairs for less comfy deck chairs.

When judging Couturier's worth and whether we should consider trading him back around that time, I discovered that every Cup winning team going back to the 05 lockout had a high-level two way center, and always one who had recently been a Selke finalist. It was as "mandatory" as a #1 dman and solid goaltending.

So with that knowledge I was really ecstatic to see the Pens lose Staal. I haven't worried about seeing them win another Cup since. I won't worry about it again until they get someone else like that.

Wondering if you would have considered Kesler as that player, had that happened.
 

RJ8812*

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video doesn't show it that well, but Subban acted like he was going to drop his gloves, then didn't
 
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