Miscellaneous NHL Talk XLIII - April showers

[TheKingPin]

Didn’t Florida already declare pro sports essential? Could use that for this border issue.

 

[Deadpool8812]

Yeh... they should go all out SHL if they decide on a play in.

have like 12 teams automatically making it and then 8 teams in 3 game playoff series for the final four places or something.

If they want 24 go:

12 automake it.

And of next 12
4 have a bye to 2nd round of play ins.
8 on outside looking in play each other with winners facing teams who had byes.

Then start playoffs.

They also need the let the teams that aren't playing in the play-in round play some games

 

[GapToothedWonder]

I wasn’t calling them front line workers. I was saying if they wanted to make money there are jobs available as front line workers. Otherwise, this is their job. With new risks like a lot of other jobs in America. A lot of jobs have a lot higher risks for lesser money or the same.



If they don’t play, they don’t make any money. That’s how it should be. Not any different from restaurant owners and their employees. I don’t think you’d have any room service at all. No one has gotten sick from food prepared etc that we can tell. There are interactions that will happen, but you can do your best and I think that would be good enough. They aren’t even rec N95 masks on our covid floors with vent patients. It’s contagious but you do need droplet exposure. One thing I saw was exposure for several minutes in close proximity.



I don’t feel like posting that.

I never said I get paid less bc I’m not complying. I am saying if I don’t show up for work, I will be fired or at least not payed. I get paid less bc there is less to do. My employer has been good after initial resistance. I am happy with how they have handled things.

Man you are really not getting what I am saying. I agree if they don't play they don't get paid. What if a player wants to show up and play but also wants to not isolate when they aren't playing. Is your argument that they don't deserve to be paid because they aren't willing to follow the NHLs rules 24 hours a day for 2 to 3 months? Does the NHL have the right to hold those personal liberties hostage over the threat of not paying players?

All those higher risk jobs you are talking about don't demand there employees act a certain way at home. People in grocery stores aren't being told they can't leave there homes during non working hours. This is where your argument pointing to other essential workers breaks down.

Your analogy to your own life breaks down the same way. There is less to do so you get paid less. You aren't being told you have to live in total isolation for 3 months or else you won't be allowed to work and thus not be paid.

How many levels away from the players would you apply a similar "follow our rules away from work or don't get paid" model.

And again you keep pointing out single details like "okay no room services". Unless you can identify and solve every one of those issues proactively then you can't create a closed loop. So you trying to come up with clever ways to avoid this or that thing is irrelevant in the greater context of the issue.

 

[Starat327]

I wasn’t calling them front line workers. I was saying if they wanted to make money there are jobs available as front line workers. Otherwise, this is their job. With new risks like a lot of other jobs in America. A lot of jobs have a lot higher risks for lesser money or the same.



If they don’t play, they don’t make any money. That’s how it should be. Not any different from restaurant owners and their employees. I don’t think you’d have any room service at all. No one has gotten sick from food prepared etc that we can tell. There are interactions that will happen, but you can do your best and I think that would be good enough. They aren’t even rec N95 masks on our covid floors with vent patients. It’s contagious but you do need droplet exposure. One thing I saw was exposure for several minutes in close proximity.



I don’t feel like posting that.

I never said I get paid less bc I’m not complying. I am saying if I don’t show up for work, I will be fired or at least not payed. I get paid less bc there is less to do. My employer has been good after initial resistance. I am happy with how they have handled things.

You keep referencing their financial situation, but im not sure why. The owners stand to make more from this than anyone, and their is no inherent risk to them at all. So, while i'm in favor of the players coming back in a controlled environment, where it can be done safely, what is their motivation to do so when they are inheriting all of the risk for someone else's financial gain? It makes no sense from a logical perspective. And yes, lots of people have gone back to work, and most of them have some sort of temperature check, company supplier PPE in place so they can do so. When the owners are ready to pony up and provide the necessary PPE and precautions to best minimize the risk for the players, i'm sure the players will be happy to do so as well.

 

[TheKingPin]

Man you are really not getting what I am saying. I agree if they don't play they don't get paid. What if a player wants to show up and play but also wants to not isolate when they aren't playing. Is your argument that they don't deserve to be paid because they aren't willing to follow the NHLs rules 24 hours a day for 2 to 3 months? Does the NHL have the right to hold those personal liberties hostage over the threat of not paying players?

All those higher risk jobs you are talking about don't demand there employees act a certain way at home. People in grocery stores aren't being told they can't leave there homes during non working hours. This is where your argument pointing to other essential workers breaks down.

Your analogy to your own life breaks down the same way. There is less to do so you get paid less. You aren't being told you have to live in total isolation for 3 months or else you won't be allowed to work and thus not be paid.

How many levels away from the players would you apply a similar "follow our rules away from work or don't get paid" model.

And again you keep pointing out single details like "okay no room services". Unless you can identify and solve every one of those issues proactively then you can't create a closed loop. So you trying to come up with clever ways to avoid this or that thing is irrelevant in the greater context of the issue.

It has nothing to do with liberties. It’s just what it is to play. Don’t like it, then you don’t have to play. Marijuana is not illegal in many places, but if you test for it then you are suspended under the NFL rules. That is setting up something that determines how a player needs to act in their off time based off of league rules put into place.

This is a unique time and these players are under the most unique set of circumstances so there will have to be unique solutions. My hospital initially declared no one to be wearing masks walking around non covid areas. Now they declare everyone wear a mask. If you didn’t do either when it was put forward you may lose your job. The players have an extreme case, but it does go with their job descriptions. I know friends who have isolated themselves from their families to treat people in NYC. Is what it is for you job right now. It’s not easy or ideal, but it’s what it is. And given that it looks like the NBA, NHL, MLB, and NFL are headed to playing again it’s something that it appears you may need to get your head around.

You keep referencing their financial situation, but im not sure why. The owners stand to make more from this than anyone, and their is no inherent risk to them at all. So, while i'm in favor of the players coming back in a controlled environment, where it can be done safely, what is their motivation to do so when they are inheriting all of the risk for someone else's financial gain? It makes no sense from a logical perspective. And yes, lots of people have gone back to work, and most of them have some sort of temperature check, company supplier PPE in place so they can do so. When the owners are ready to pony up and provide the necessary PPE and precautions to best minimize the risk for the players, i'm sure the players will be happy to do so as well.

I mention their financial situation bc it’s their life. If they have families and futures to worry about, they aren’t going to want to cancel this season bc they would lose all of the remaining salary and also concede next year and every year until theirs a vaccine that works and is well distributed. The owners make the most but the players make money too and that money won’t be there if they don’t play. It shouldn’t be. It’s not like college sports. These guys will make millions for themselves still. All the logic you need is a player that a career that lasts maybe 10 years paid 5 million last year and 0 next year. You are going to want to make that money and get things back up and running again.

The owners and league absolutely need to make every effort to make things as safe as possible. I’m sure they will and if not the NHL should and will have guidance.

I think the TV contracts should be renegotiated country wide as they are sure to get record audiences. That extra money should go to the players as hazard pay.

 

[TCTC]

I'm pretty sure most of the players are looking forward to play again.

 

[TheKingPin]

I'm pretty sure most of the players are looking forward to play again.

Yea I really don’t think it’s even as issue. If they want to play let them play. If they don’t then they don’t have to. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Avs all have antibodies even.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I don’t doubt many of them want to go back but do many of them want to do so with the strict guidelines it would entail is the next question?

At least with the UFC everything is individualized & the spread out scheduling so they can maintain it more realistically. Like the guy two weeks ago who got it. He was isolated along with his team & they were the only ones infected. They just took the dude off of the card & went on with everybody else that was fine.

 

[Starat327]

It has nothing to do with liberties. It’s just what it is to play. Don’t like it, then you don’t have to play. Marijuana is not illegal in many places, but if you test for it then you are suspended under the NFL rules. That is setting up something that determines how a player needs to act in their off time based off of league rules put into place.

This is a unique time and these players are under the most unique set of circumstances so there will have to be unique solutions. My hospital initially declared no one to be wearing masks walking around non covid areas. Now they declare everyone wear a mask. If you didn’t do either when it was put forward you may lose your job. The players have an extreme case, but it does go with their job descriptions. I know friends who have isolated themselves from their families to treat people in NYC. Is what it is for you job right now. It’s not easy or ideal, but it’s what it is. And given that it looks like the NBA, NHL, MLB, and NFL are headed to playing again it’s something that it appears you may need to get your head around.



I mention their financial situation bc it’s their life. If they have families and futures to worry about, they aren’t going to want to cancel this season bc they would lose all of the remaining salary and also concede next year and every year until theirs a vaccine that works and is well distributed. The owners make the most but the players make money too and that money won’t be there if they don’t play. It shouldn’t be. It’s not like college sports. These guys will make millions for themselves still. All the logic you need is a player that a career that lasts maybe 10 years paid 5 million last year and 0 next year. You are going to want to make that money and get things back up and running again.

The owners and league absolutely need to make every effort to make things as safe as possible. I’m sure they will and if not the NHL should and will have guidance.

I think the TV contracts should be renegotiated country wide as they are sure to get record audiences. That extra money should go to the players as hazard pay.

I think thats the core of the issue, to be honest. I understand their financial situation is their life, but most of these guys make/have made enough where a work stoppage wouldnt kill them. And if it did, the union should be there to support them, thats what its there to do.

The crux of the issue is to make it safe enough for them to feel comfortable playing, but not make it so they have to do it in isolation. As non-essential non-frontline employees, they shouldnt have to choose between going to work and being able to go about their 'regular' lives at home, thats all. In your comparisons, you are allowed to still go home and see your family with minimal risk, and your organization (general you/your here, not you specifically) should have policies and procedures in place to make it so that if you are at work, you are less likely to contract the virus. The players deserve the same precautions. It's just harder to do for them because you can't exactly socially distance an ice rink like you can a an officespace.

Although, I guess they could become bubble hockey players, only allowed to move up and down in a straight(is) line. Damn, that could be fun to watch. Live-action bubble hockey it is.

 

[TheKingPin]

I think thats the core of the issue, to be honest. I understand their financial situation is their life, but most of these guys make/have made enough where a work stoppage wouldnt kill them. And if it did, the union should be there to support them, thats what its there to do.

The crux of the issue is to make it safe enough for them to feel comfortable playing, but not make it so they have to do it in isolation. As non-essential non-frontline employees, they shouldnt have to choose between going to work and being able to go about their 'regular' lives at home, thats all. In your comparisons, you are allowed to still go home and see your family with minimal risk, and your organization (general you/your here, not you specifically) should have policies and procedures in place to make it so that if you are at work, you are less likely to contract the virus. The players deserve the same precautions. It's just harder to do for them because you can't exactly socially distance an ice rink like you can a an officespace.

Although, I guess they could become bubble hockey players, only allowed to move up and down in a straight(is) line. Damn, that could be fun to watch. Live-action bubble hockey it is.

You could get amac back for bubble hockey. That’s all he could really do. Skate in a straight line and block pucks and knock them around the rink randomly.

 

[Adtar02]

I feel like there are no right answers when it comes to the pandemic. Whether talking about about reopening or stay closed both sides are right and both are wrong. It’s amazing the situation we are all in.

 

[wasup]

It has nothing to do with liberties. It’s just what it is to play. Don’t like it, then you don’t have to play. Marijuana is not illegal in many places, but if you test for it then you are suspended under the NFL rules. That is setting up something that determines how a player needs to act in their off time based off of league rules put into place.

This is a unique time and these players are under the most unique set of circumstances so there will have to be unique solutions. My hospital initially declared no one to be wearing masks walking around non covid areas. Now they declare everyone wear a mask. If you didn’t do either when it was put forward you may lose your job. The players have an extreme case, but it does go with their job descriptions. I know friends who have isolated themselves from their families to treat people in NYC. Is what it is for you job right now. It’s not easy or ideal, but it’s what it is. And given that it looks like the NBA, NHL, MLB, and NFL are headed to playing again it’s something that it appears you may need to get your head around.



I mention their financial situation bc it’s their life. If they have families and futures to worry about, they aren’t going to want to cancel this season bc they would lose all of the remaining salary and also concede next year and every year until theirs a vaccine that works and is well distributed. The owners make the most but the players make money too and that money won’t be there if they don’t play. It shouldn’t be. It’s not like college sports. These guys will make millions for themselves still. All the logic you need is a player that a career that lasts maybe 10 years paid 5 million last year and 0 next year. You are going to want to make that money and get things back up and running again.

The owners and league absolutely need to make every effort to make things as safe as possible. I’m sure they will and if not the NHL should and will have guidance.

I think the TV contracts should be renegotiated country wide as they are sure to get record audiences. That extra money should go to the players as hazard pay.

It would go to the team and then count as league related revenue and therefore lower the escrow they claw back on the players salaries .

 

[TheKingPin]

It would go to the team and then count as league related revenue and therefore lower the escrow they claw back on the players salaries .

If there were no season now there would no season for 2020-2021 and I don’t think they would get their salaries

 

[Starat327]

If there were no season now there would no season for 2020-2021 and I don’t think they would get their salaries

The union gets 30/day from each player with an NHL contract, if i remember the article right - (@Curufinwe you seem more in tune with the CBA/Cap than most, do you know what the dues are off hand?). The union should, in theory have money to pay out their employees int the event of a work stoppage of that magnitude. Maybe not full salaries, but a sustainable paycheck. And if not, then the NHLPA members need to elect better officials.

 

[Curufinwe]

No idea about dues, but there’s no way the union is going to be able to cover salaries if there’s no 20/21 season. The salaries are just too high. They would need to have hundreds of millions of dollars ready to pay out.

 

[Appleyard]

No idea about dues, but there’s no way the union is going to be able to cover salaries if there’s no 20/21 season. The salaries are just too high. They would need to have hundreds of millions of dollars ready to pay out.

We would have a SC Bern vs CSKA Stanley Cup final in 2021!

 

[Curufinwe]

I'm pretty sure most of the players are looking forward to play again.

I’m also pretty sure they know how bad it would be for them if the salary cap dropped to $75m for next season.

 

[Curufinwe]

If there are players who choose not to play for family reasons I’m not going to get mad and criticize them. Even if it’s Giroux and it theoretically costs the Flyers a chance at a Cup. But as someone who grew up following rugby and cricket teams who went on overseas tours in the 80s and 90s that lasted months, I don’t see the big deal about asking the same from professional athletes who get paid millions and have all the advantages of modern technology for keeping in contact with their families.

For most of the players in the proposed format it should be only be for a month or so.

 

[Starat327]

Harrowing read:

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/hockey-is-not-for-everyone-akim-aliu-nhl

The more intriguing part - were Taylor Hall and Lehner subtweeting him, or was it really just 'unfortunate timing'.

 

[Rebels57]

The more intriguing part - were Taylor Hall and Lehner subtweeting him, or was it really just 'unfortunate timing'.

Im thinking Lehners was intentional, but im not quite sure why. Hmm..

 

[Curufinwe]

Border closure extension not expected to affect NHL planning - TSN.ca

NHLPA defers again on final paycheques
The NHL Players’ Association’s executive board, comprised of one representative from each of the league’s 31 clubs, voted on Tuesday to again defer a decision on distribution of the players’ final paycheques for the 2019-20 regular season.

The NHLPA previously voted to defer payment in April.

The final cheques, which were due to be distributed on April 15, account for approximately $140 million (U.S.) in pay and covered the final 12 working days of the regular season.

Players had 14 per cent of gross pay withheld from their first 12 paycheques of the season into an escrow account to ensure a proper 50-50 revenue split with owners, as per the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Players can vote to contribute their final cheques to that escrow total, which would bring their collective withholding rate to approximately 16.5 per cent for the season. That would make a small dent on the upwards of 35 total per cent they could owe to owners to make them whole for revenue lost due to the pandemic.

Or, players can vote to collect their final paycheques, which would leave a larger balance owing to owners in the future.

Players have been split on the issue. Any player who retires after the 2019-20 season or does not return to play in 2020-21 will not be subject to the amount owed to owners, and those players would like to collect their final cheques. Younger players, including players who have not yet entered the league, will be stuck with the bill.

The NHLPA expects a final decision on the last cheque by May 31, at which point in time players hope to have a better understanding of the league’s return-to-play format and financial picture, with projections on potential revenue that could be recouped.

Players would not be paid to return to finish the 2019-20 campaign since they have been paid in advance; any revenue brought in would go towards offsetting that larger payment due to owners in the future.

 

[Young Sandwich]

If there are players who choose not to play for family reasons I’m not going to get mad and criticize them. Even if it’s Giroux and it theoretically costs the Flyers a chance at a Cup. But as someone who grew up following rugby and cricket teams who went on overseas tours in the 80s and 90s that lasted months, I don’t see the big deal about asking the same from professional athletes who get paid millions and have all the advantages of modern technology for keeping in contact with their families.

For most of the players in the proposed format it should be only be for a month or so.

Not trying to sound insensitive or anything, but I can see a lot of these guys secretly looking forward to getting away from their families for a bit after this quarantine garbage. I certainly wouldn't mind a little "vacation" from the monotony at this point...

 

[TheKingPin]

Border closure extension not expected to affect NHL planning - TSN.ca

NHLPA defers again on final paycheques
The NHL Players’ Association’s executive board, comprised of one representative from each of the league’s 31 clubs, voted on Tuesday to again defer a decision on distribution of the players’ final paycheques for the 2019-20 regular season.

The NHLPA previously voted to defer payment in April.

The final cheques, which were due to be distributed on April 15, account for approximately $140 million (U.S.) in pay and covered the final 12 working days of the regular season.

Players had 14 per cent of gross pay withheld from their first 12 paycheques of the season into an escrow account to ensure a proper 50-50 revenue split with owners, as per the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Players can vote to contribute their final cheques to that escrow total, which would bring their collective withholding rate to approximately 16.5 per cent for the season. That would make a small dent on the upwards of 35 total per cent they could owe to owners to make them whole for revenue lost due to the pandemic.

Or, players can vote to collect their final paycheques, which would leave a larger balance owing to owners in the future.

Players have been split on the issue. Any player who retires after the 2019-20 season or does not return to play in 2020-21 will not be subject to the amount owed to owners, and those players would like to collect their final cheques. Younger players, including players who have not yet entered the league, will be stuck with the bill.

The NHLPA expects a final decision on the last cheque by May 31, at which point in time players hope to have a better understanding of the league’s return-to-play format and financial picture, with projections on potential revenue that could be recouped.

Players would not be paid to return to finish the 2019-20 campaign since they have been paid in advance; any revenue brought in would go towards offsetting that larger payment due to owners in the future.

That’s interesting, thanks.

 

[TB87]

The more intriguing part - were Taylor Hall and Lehner subtweeting him, or was it really just 'unfortunate timing'.

Reading the room...was a challenge for those two for some reason

 

[Curufinwe]

I like the sound of this. Great job by GMCF and HCAV to get the Flyers into the East's top 4.

LeBrun: NHL awaiting NHLPA approval of return to play plan

• The top four teams in each conference will play a round-robin with each other (three games) while the bottom eight teams in each conference face off in a best-of-five, play-in series, No. 5 versus No. 12, No. 6 versus No. 11, etc.
• Those play-in series winners advance to the 16-team playoffs.
• Despite the top four teams in each conference initially being ranked by the current standings, their round-robin games do matter. If the No. 4 team sweeps through their portion of the round-robin, there is a chance for them to be ranked higher in the playoff seeding.
• The 24 teams return ranked on points percentage. The top four in the East are Boston, Tampa Bay, Washington and Philadelphia; in the West it’s St. Louis, Colorado, Vegas and Dallas.