Miscellaneous NHL Talk XLIII - April showers

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TheKingPin

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Nov 16, 2005
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(I'm just piggy backing off your comment Ted this isn't directed at you)

And the people cooking and delivering food, cleaning hotel rooms, driving team transport, driving family transport, doing everyone's laundry etc etc

Even if it were possible to create a totally closed loop it would only be possible by violating people's civil liberties.

Do we really want hockey so badly that we are willing to ask players to meet a standard of isolation we aren't willing to meet ourselves?

If a player decides they don't want to play in those circumstances could you blame them? Would the NHL still pay those players? I'm sure nothing in their contracts states they would have to play in such circumstances.

How dare these people put their families health and well being in front of my entertainment. Don't they know how much i pay for cable TV? They should be more than happy to stay in isolation, away from their families and loved ones for a month or two so that I can get my fix of entertainment.

Or at least, that's what i believe the mentality is for "that side".


Also, Troy Deeney gets to do whatever he wants. Nobody is ordering that BMF around.

Nothing wrong with asking. They can say no. If they want to let go of millions from their salary and decrease the cap for future smaller contacts they can. They get paid well but only for a small percentage of their life and for doing something we all do as a hobby bc it’s awesome. I don’t get exposed or expected to be exposed to potential brain causing injury every rep of my job like in football.

And I’m sure they won’t be having their beds turned down every day. Even more you really do need direct contact for transmission.
 

Starat327

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Nothing wrong with asking. They can say no. If they want to let go of millions from their salary and decrease the cap for future smaller contacts they can. They get paid well but only for a small percentage of their life and for doing something we all do as a hobby bc it’s awesome. I don’t get exposed or expected to be exposed to potential brain causing injury every rep of my job like in football.

And I’m sure they won’t be having their beds turned down every day. Even more you really do need direct contact for transmission.

I agree that it doesnt hurt to ask, but none of the rest of what you said has any bearing. Yeah, they get to play hockey for a living, and yeah, they get to make a lot of money. But too often, fans seem to forget that they are people too. They have families and friends they dont get to see nearly as much as they like. They dont get to go to their kids sports games, and dance recitals, and all that other fun stuff. Yes, its only "a small percentage" of their life (though i imagine dedicating your life to a sport from ages 10-35 isnte xactly "small percentage - i digress), they are the most meaningful years in a persons life,where they form relationships, get married, have kids, etc.

I'm not saying its 100% unreasonable to ask - I'm saying its 100% unreasonable to assume or expect them to leave their families for an entire month and a half or more to play out a season for our entertainment. If they want to, great. If they don't? I dont blame them one bit. Its hard enough having minimal interaction and being kept in our own bubbles (which we constantly break) for most of us.
 

TheKingPin

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I agree that it doesnt hurt to ask, but none of the rest of what you said has any bearing. Yeah, they get to play hockey for a living, and yeah, they get to make a lot of money. But too often, fans seem to forget that they are people too. They have families and friends they dont get to see nearly as much as they like. They dont get to go to their kids sports games, and dance recitals, and all that other fun stuff. Yes, its only "a small percentage" of their life (though i imagine dedicating your life to a sport from ages 10-35 isnte xactly "small percentage - i digress), they are the most meaningful years in a persons life,where they form relationships, get married, have kids, etc.

I'm not saying its 100% unreasonable to ask - I'm saying its 100% unreasonable to assume or expect them to leave their families for an entire month and a half or more to play out a season for our entertainment. If they want to, great. If they don't? I dont blame them one bit. Its hard enough having minimal interaction and being kept in our own bubbles (which we constantly break) for most of us.

If they want to make money being a front line worker they can. This is just the risk with their job right now. My risks also went up with this and I am being paid less for it. They don’t have to anything they don’t want to. But you shouldn’t be paid for sitting out this year and likely next year too.
 

Starat327

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If they want to make money being a front line worker they can. This is just the risk with their job right now. My risks also went up with this and I am being paid less for it. They don’t have to anything they don’t want to. But you shouldn’t be paid for sitting out this year and likely next year too.

Frontline workers? There's a very distinct difference between a front-line worker in the sense of being a doctor, nurse, or other essential employee (or people who support said employees), and a hockey player, or actor/actress, etc. Nurses, doctors, et all are required to work because the rest of the population depends on them to keep them healthy. Its an unfair burden to be sure, but one that is necessary to ensure the well being of our communities. People whose jobs it is to entertain us are not 'essential' and should in no way be considered front-line. There is nothing id love more than to watch some hockey right now, but I'm not going to die or become very ill if hockey takes a break. This is silly talk.
 

Appleyard

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I don't understand why the onus is on players... and they are the ones being seen as greedy/unreasonable etc. (same in most circumstances tbh.)

You and I are closer salary wise to the average pro athlete than they are to the average team owner. It is owners and leagues that are pushing for restarts for the most part... not players. Even though seems like ~90% of players want to play across most sports. I would 100% return to play and relish doing so. But someone with a family member who is in a high risk group, or with anxiety issues, have no issue with them sitting out until say next season when some normalcy returns.

I don't blame some guys in specific circumstances for not coming back right now. Health is not dictating these decisions. Money is. Owners and execs are not taking any extra risk, and while the risk is "minimal" it is still there, especially in contact sports where guys end up in hospital every month - which is a place no-one wants to be right now.

In a lot of Europe everyone was just paid their normal wage for 2 months to stay at home if they could not work from home... yet sports leagues are pushing for a return when aside from key workers 90% of society is on hold.

I should state that I want sport to return ASAP and think it should be "fine" even with added risk in general if precautions taken. Even if I do see the reasons behind it as economic (and not mainly player related economics) and in some cases political to be a distraction, boost morale etc.

But also see why it might be very, very difficult to reconcile for a % of players... people miss weeks recovering from injury when they "could" play in theory but it might be re-aggravated, yet if I had a partner or child who was very high risk I would be less likely to take the small chance of hurting them than I would to say... play through a partially torn ACL that had not healed (which I actually have done!). Decisions are made different when it is not just you it could affect.
 
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Starat327

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I don't understand why the onus is on players... and they are the ones being seen as greedy/unreasonable etc. (same in most circumstances tbh.)

You and I are closer salary wise to the average pro athlete than they are to the average team owner. It is owners and leagues that are pushing for restarts for the most part... not players. Even though seems like ~90% of players want to play across most sports. I would 100% return to play and relish doing so. But someone with a family member who is in a high risk group, or with anxiety issues, have no issue with them sitting out until say next season when some normalcy returns.

I don't blame some guys in specific circumstances for not coming back right now. Health is not dictating these decisions. Money is. Owners and execs are not taking any extra risk, and while the risk is "minimal" it is still there, especially in contact sports where guys end up in hospital every month - which is a place no-one wants to be right now.

In a lot of Europe everyone was just paid their normal wage for 2 months to stay at home if they could not work from home... yet sports leagues are pushing for a return when aside from key workers 90% of society is on hold.

I should state that I want sport to return ASAP and think it should be "fine" even with added risk in general if precautions taken. Even if I do see the reasons behind it as economic (and not mainly player related economics) and in some cases political to be a distraction, boost morale etc.

But also see why it might be very, very difficult to reconcile for a % of players... people miss weeks recovering from injury when they "could" play in theory but it might be re-aggravated, yet if I had a partner or child who was very high risk I would be less likely to take the small chance of hurting them than I would to say... play through a partially torn ACL that had not healed (which I actually have done!). Decisions are made different when it is not just you it could affect.

This is sort of how i see it as well. I don't see a problem with them coming back and playing, assuming they can do so safely. But the onus for this needs to be on the owners, not the players, to make it a safe environment to play in, but also one that doesnt force the players to choose between being 'a hockey guy' and "playing for the team" and being a dad, or husband, or son to someone who needs them.
 
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landsbergfan

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I really hate any of these ideas, but I guess I will have to get over it because I would rather watch hockey. It annoys me that a lot of teams that have basically no shot of making the playoffs before all this suddenly get back in. The randomness and parity in hockey makes a play in game seem like a terrible idea. I don't think having a bye after being off this long is a realistic advantage.
 
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Deadpool8812

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Feb 10, 2018
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Well...the players have already gotten all their money, even after the stoppage. Do you think the players would be feeling the same if the league stopped paying them when they postponed the season?
 

TCTC

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20 teams would be ideal. The Islanders, Rangers, Vancouver and Minnesota all still had a realistic shot at making the playoffs.

Nobody wants to see Florida or Arizona sneak into the playoffs just to lose in the next round anyway.
 
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Appleyard

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20 teams would be ideal. The Islanders, Rangers, Vancouver and Minnesota all still had a realistic shot at making the playoffs.

Nobody wants to see Florida or Arizona sneak into the playoffs just to lose in the next round anyway.

Florida and Arizona have a massive advantage as well under these circumstances. They are used to playing in front of no-one.
 

TB87

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I think everything he says he's gone through is terrible and should never have happened. But I can say (he played juniors in Sudbury, so I saw him plenty of times in public) that he is/was a grade 'A' dickhead himself. There's always two sides to every story


Being a dickhead on the regular has never been appealing to me. It’s a way of being that is so foreign to me.

Gotta say though: I am in no way surprised that Steve Downie was a POS in junior. He was a dirty, dirty NHLer
 

GapToothedWonder

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Dec 20, 2013
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Nothing wrong with asking. They can say no. If they want to let go of millions from their salary and decrease the cap for future smaller contacts they can. They get paid well but only for a small percentage of their life and for doing something we all do as a hobby bc it’s awesome. I don’t get exposed or expected to be exposed to potential brain causing injury every rep of my job like in football.

And I’m sure they won’t be having their beds turned down every day. Even more you really do need direct contact for transmission.

They shouldn't lose money if they aren't living in total isolation as I'm sure that stipulation isn't covered in their contracts.

They understand and accept the risks of the sport but living in total isolation isn't what they signed up for. They could lose money if they refused to play games. I can't see how they could lose money if they refused total isolation.

And even if their beds aren't turned down everyday you aren't getting to the root on the problem and you know it. You are point to some tiny aspect of it and what? Are you claiming you could create a closed loop by only having the staff clean every 3 days vs 1? The issue still remains you can not totally control the atmosphere these players live it.
 

dingbathero

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Jul 14, 2010
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Been a while.

We have moved into May snow here in NL- instead of April showers.....

I am weary of the 24 team playoff format.

Maybe have the cusp teams have a play in tournament.
 

Appleyard

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Been a while.

We have moved into May snow here in NL- instead of April showers.....

I am weary of the 24 team playoff format.

Maybe have the cusp teams have a play in tournament.

Yeh... they should go all out SHL if they decide on a play in.

have like 12 teams automatically making it and then 8 teams in 3 game playoff series for the final four places or something.

If they want 24 go:

12 automake it.

And of next 12
4 have a bye to 2nd round of play ins.
8 on outside looking in play each other with winners facing teams who had byes.

Then start playoffs.
 
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GapToothedWonder

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Dec 20, 2013
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A few Premier League playera have refused to come back to training today as teams restarted.

Troy Deeney from Watford is one. Has a 5 month old son who has breathing issues and at risk so he says he will not as it makes no sense for him to even increase sons risk marginally.

Good for him. I'm totally down with striking a balance between opening up and remaining distant. The current level of lockdown is only economically viable for so long.

But sports with no fans has such a minimal impact on the economy. Job creation for the teams and staff, probably a reduced amount of camera people, and then announcers and commentators at sports channels?
 

GapToothedWonder

Registered User
Dec 20, 2013
5,196
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Paris of the Praries
If they want to make money being a front line worker they can. This is just the risk with their job right now. My risks also went up with this and I am being paid less for it. They don’t have to anything they don’t want to. But you shouldn’t be paid for sitting out this year and likely next year too.

A) I would love for you to tell us your actually job description

B) I would love for you to tell us how your employers has changed your home life under the threat that you will not be paid if you don't comply with their demands why you are on your own time.
 

TheKingPin

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Nov 16, 2005
20,494
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Philadelphia, PA
Frontline workers? There's a very distinct difference between a front-line worker in the sense of being a doctor, nurse, or other essential employee (or people who support said employees), and a hockey player, or actor/actress, etc. Nurses, doctors, et all are required to work because the rest of the population depends on them to keep them healthy. Its an unfair burden to be sure, but one that is necessary to ensure the well being of our communities. People whose jobs it is to entertain us are not 'essential' and should in no way be considered front-line. There is nothing id love more than to watch some hockey right now, but I'm not going to die or become very ill if hockey takes a break. This is silly talk.

I wasn’t calling them front line workers. I was saying if they wanted to make money there are jobs available as front line workers. Otherwise, this is their job. With new risks like a lot of other jobs in America. A lot of jobs have a lot higher risks for lesser money or the same.

They shouldn't lose money if they aren't living in total isolation as I'm sure that stipulation isn't covered in their contracts.

They understand and accept the risks of the sport but living in total isolation isn't what they signed up for. They could lose money if they refused to play games. I can't see how they could lose money if they refused total isolation.

And even if their beds aren't turned down everyday you aren't getting to the root on the problem and you know it. You are point to some tiny aspect of it and what? Are you claiming you could create a closed loop by only having the staff clean every 3 days vs 1? The issue still remains you can not totally control the atmosphere these players live it.

If they don’t play, they don’t make any money. That’s how it should be. Not any different from restaurant owners and their employees. I don’t think you’d have any room service at all. No one has gotten sick from food prepared etc that we can tell. There are interactions that will happen, but you can do your best and I think that would be good enough. They aren’t even rec N95 masks on our covid floors with vent patients. It’s contagious but you do need droplet exposure. One thing I saw was exposure for several minutes in close proximity.

A) I would love for you to tell us your actually job description

B) I would love for you to tell us how your employers has changed your home life under the threat that you will not be paid if you don't comply with their demands why you are on your own time.

I don’t feel like posting that.

I never said I get paid less bc I’m not complying. I am saying if I don’t show up for work, I will be fired or at least not payed. I get paid less bc there is less to do. My employer has been good after initial resistance. I am happy with how they have handled things.
 
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