Miscellaneous NHL talk, summer Part two

[MacDonald4MVP]

Christ I just had a repulsive thought. What if Karlsson signs with Leafs?

 

[Danko]

Ice is going in at the WFC today and Camp is a little over two weeks away

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

Ice is going in at the WFC today and Camp is a little over two weeks away

Merci

 

[BernieParent]

Over that same time period he's also a -17 and 121st in hits...

So really he's probably not worth much at all.

I'd offer Hagg and a 5th.

 

[Jtown]

Christ I just had a repulsive thought. What if Karlsson signs with Leafs?

Then say hello to Austin matthews. Talent is not the limiting factor in today's nhl. The limiting factor is cheap talent.

 

[deadhead]

I wouldn't get bent out of shape by Toronto, playoff scoring the last two years:

Marner 13g 3-10 13 +3
Nylander 13g 2-6 8 +1
Hyman 13g 2-6 8 -3
Matthews 13g 5-2 7 -2
Kadri 10g 1-3 4 0
Brown 13g 1-3 4 0
Kapanen 13g 3-0 3 -5

Reilly 13g 1-9 10 -1
Gardiner 13g 1-4 5 -4
Zaitsev 11g 0-2 2 -7

Old Men:
Marleau 13g 7-2 9 -1 [39 this season]
Hainsey 7g 0-1 1 0 [37 this season]

Gone:
JVR 13g 5-2 7 -1
Bozak 13g 4-4 8 -1
Plekanac 7g 2-2 4 +1
Polak 9g 0-1 1 +4

JT has to make up for a lot of playoff production that left to pay for his contract
And with two key players long in the tooth and Polak gone, there's not much experience to count on come April.
This team is built to amass points during the regular season but not handle physical talented teams in the playoffs.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Over that same time period he's also a -17 and 121st in hits...

So really he's probably not worth much at all.

I'd offer Hagg and a 5th.

Plus/minus is a overrated stat.
That said, it just wouldn’t be worth it cost wise and financially.

 

[Striiker]

Plus/minus is a overrated stat.
That said, it just wouldn’t be worth it cost wise and financially.

Yeah, that was all sarcasm.

Funny thing is there's actually some posters on here who use those stats in arguments.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Yeah, that was all sarcasm.

Funny thing is there's actually some posters on here who use those stats in arguments.

Yeah I know. Was just saying. Some judge the plus/minus as a base for defensive play as a skater.
Some will say player X was a -20 which means he sucks. That is most lazy argument ever. I know you don’t think like that. But some do.

 

[Amorgus]

Is her name Farrah? We need Farrah Fawcett's face on a bee STAT.

 

[Alex91]

wonder what it would take to get Anderson off Ottawa’s hands

 

[deadhead]

Yeah I know. Was just saying. Some judge the plus/minus as a base for defensive play as a skater.
Some will say player X was a -20 which means he sucks. That is most lazy argument ever. I know you don’t think like that. But some do.

It's not a meaningless stat, it's a limited stat.
If you go to Corsica, you can find both GF% and xGF%.

Both have value, some players consistently (over a period of years) have a lower GA than expected from xGA, which may reflect subtle defensive play like tying up players near the net so they can't put in rebounds or not blocking your goalie's view. While xGF% is better than GF% or +/-, it's still a crude stat based on average scoring per shot from different spots on the ice.

 

[Striiker]

Yeah I know. Was just saying. Some judge the plus/minus as a base for defensive play as a skater.
Some will say player X was a -20 which means he sucks. That is most lazy argument ever. I know you don’t think like that. But some do.

Yep, the reason they use it is because they know they can't make a legit argument. It's a last second hail mary, hoping that whoever they're arguing with is too dumb to realize what they're doing.

Yet another example of dishonesty on this board.

 

[Mkoll]

@deadhead are you Contrarian Man or his sidekick Bicker Boy?
you're both very adept at arguing everything with everyone, its hard to tell who the hero is

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

Then say hello to Austin matthews. Talent is not the limiting factor in today's nhl. The limiting factor is cheap talent.

Like Druin for Sergachev kinda cheap?

 

[BernieParent]

Is her name Farrah? We need Farrah Fawcett's face on a bee STAT.

Ms. Frizzle from Magic School Bus. Friz - Bee.

 

[BernieParent]

wonder what it would take to get Anderson off Ottawa’s hands

Bus fare?

 

[Magua]

Ms. Frizzle from Magic School Bus. Friz - Bee.

Was always more a Magic Tree House young lad than a Magic School Bus one.

 

[deadhead]

@deadhead are you Contrarian Man or his sidekick Bicker Boy?
you're both very adept at arguing everything with everyone, its hard to tell who the hero is

I just present the facts, I leave to others to wrestle with pigs.

 

[Striiker]

As a reminder:

So, there's been pathetic attempts by the contrarians to say that Konecny's current play is because of Hakstols coaching. That he's a different player than he was when he was being used so little and with horrible linemates. These contrarians like to follow and agree with the contrarians ringleaders posts, so lets look at them to expose the lies...

Keep in mind, Konecny was placed on the top line on December 22nd, 2017

These next quotes are all from Dec 20th, 2017

I'd say the opposite, Konecny looks very comfortable in a checking role.

I do think that Laughton/Kocecny should play more minutes, this team needs their speed - but I also think both players offensively aren't as good as advertised at the NHL level. That may come with experience, but right now I think they're in the right role, just underutilized.​

Konecny and Laughton didn't show much, if you want PT, make good things happen, not turnovers.​

Konecny is only 20, if the Flyers were deeper last year, he'd probably have stayed in junior, and be in the AHL this year.​

If Hextall had more depth, Konecny would have been left in juniors and in the AHL this season, and we'd be all excited about him as a 21 year old rookie next year.​

Konecny as a 4th line checker can skate and force things, a superior version of Leier, Konency as a top 6 winger playing 17 minutes a night has to be stronger, more defensively responsible and a much better shooter (10-12%, not 6%).​

Konecny is a perfect fit right now on the speed line, because he's not even a top 9 winger​

Konecny's lack of scoring is his lack of progress as a player, sure anyone will score more if paired with G & Couts, but Voracek scores a lot more than Simmonds.
Konency has had a lot of scoring opportunities, face it, right now he's not a good NHL shooter, compare him to say Boeser.
He's not a good NHL playmaker either, he's often out of control, has one gear. Hasn't helped Laughton at all.
Should have stayed in junior and spent a year in the AHL. Only 20 so he has lots of time to grow up, but not the star some thought he'd be.​

(This quote should be particularly embarrassing because it was responding to my post where I said that Konecny's lack of scoring was because of his linemates and icetime. )

So to recap, a few days before the promotion, it was said that he:
- should be in the AHL
- belongs in a checking role
- needs to be stronger, more defensively responsible, and a better shooter before being in the top 6.
- that his lack of scoring is his lack of progress as a player

But hold on a second... that doesn't sound like Hakstols magical coaching took effect yet... mere days before the promotion.... how could his sudden change in play be because of coaching if he was still the same old bad Konecny on the 20th?

Moving on...

This is from Dec 23rd, 2017. AFTER the promotion.

They're not winning until young players like Patrick, Sanheim and Konecny take it up another notch.​

... obviously implying that Konecny had not yet taken his game up another notch.

So today he's a changed player and is performing because of Hakstols coaching... but the coaching STILL hadn't taken effect on the 23rd... OK then... next...

Here's a post from Dec 29th, 2017. Even further after the promotion.

Konecny got moved to the 1st line, and it looks as bad as it did with Simmonds, only came to life when Voracek returned.
Konecny looked better playing with Laughton, he's not a top 6 winger right now and won't be for a couple more years.​

​

So Konecny was STILL the same as before? I thought Hakstol's coaching fixed him? When did that coaching magic start?

If he was the same old defensive liability with no offense then how did he suddenly become a legit top 6 forward so fast? Was it literally overnight?

----------------------------------------------

Nope. The correct answer is he was this same player all along... just without the linemates and icetime.

Case closed.

By the way, from his promotion to the top line until the end of the season, he had 20 goals and 37 points in 46 games. 35 goal and 65 point pace.

Just the facts.

 

[NicolasAubeKubel]

Anyone else watch that Konecny video? He seems like a cool dude from a nice family.

 

[Amorgus]

Ms. Frizzle from Magic School Bus. Friz - Bee.

I knew there had to be a pun involved. Thankfully I never had to watch The Magic School Bus as it was well after my childhood of OG Sesame Street, right around the time Mr. Hooper died.

 

[Tripod]

As a reminder:



By the way, from his promotion to the top line until the end of the season, he had 20 goals and 37 points in 46 games. 35 goal and 65 point pace.

Just the facts.

 

[Rich Nixon]

Anyone else watch that Konecny video? He seems like a cool dude from a nice family.

Canadian country boy. Just watched it, I like that he's a pretty low-key guy off the ice and a devious little brat the second he walks into the locker room.

 

[wasup]

Yep, the reason they use it is because they know they can't make a legit argument. It's a last second hail mary, hoping that whoever they're arguing with is too dumb to realize what they're doing.

Yet another example of dishonesty on this board.

Stats in general have to be taken with a grain of salt ,they are mathematical variations of trying to break down a game but can be skewed by several variable factors . If i see something i don't like i will use analytics to see if it backs me up but i never and i mean never just look at analytics and think that is telling me the story . A lot on here don't get to watch much of the Flyers live so all they have are the stats to try and analyse the game from . Several times when i go watch a game i will see players that have really bad or good games but the stat line on the game after does not tell the same story . Long story short analytics make for great conversation but using them as fact in arguments is just wrong . IMO of course