Minnesota Wild General Discussion V

[Wabit]

No reason to believe we won’t make it if healthy. The only team that gave us trouble this last year was Winnipeg and we were NOT healthy for much of the season.

Avs killed us too. Chi with Crawford was different team than the dumpster fire they were without him. Blues upgraded their FWDs, just have questionable goalies. If Hellebuck is for real, and not just a 1 year wonder, the Jets are a contender. Dallas, well who knows what they are doing? The Preds and Wild might as well be the same team, just which goalie is better next year?

All teams will just beat up on each other and keep the Division race close, but that might end up costing the Central one or both of the WCs next year.

 

[2Pair]

Vegas, San Jose, Anaheim, Nashville, Winnipeg, St. Louis are all 100% making the playoffs this year and I will die on that hill.

That leaves 2 spots between Flames, Wild, Kings, Avalanche, Blackhawks, Stars.

Can anyone say with certainty that the Wild would be 1 of those 2 teams?

I don't think you can say that the Ducks, Blues,and Knights are 100% locks to make the playoffs. In fact I would be quite surprised if Vegas is back in the playoffs this year.

The Wild couldn't get healthy all year, never really put together any sort of consistant play, and were still a 100 point team. Not sure why we shouldn't expect another 100 point season?

 

[Saga of the Elk]

1) Suter not being 100%
2) A decline in performance from Dubnyk & no adequate replacement in the Burglar or Stalock
3) Regression from Staal
4) No improvement from Nino & Coyle
5) Injury to Spurgeon or Granlund or Dumba or Zucker

Just a few things that have varying degrees of likelihood. Things like injury to Parise are somewhat higher in my estimation.

And with all due respect to @Minnesnota I think the Oilers have every bit as good a chance of making the playoffs as the Sharks or Knights (don't think we see the same performance from Fleury) and better than the Wild do - McDavid and Draisaitl won't carry the team alone but they'll be close.

Wild are in for a fight even if Greenway is a Calder candidate and JEE takes a massive leap.

 

[Wabit]

I'm just more pessimistic about this current team than I have been in years. The bottom-6 goal scoring is gone: there is no Nino/Haula/Pommer 3rd line, and the 4th line has no scoring ability. This just feels like a lineup that should be playing a lot of trap hockey.

Every team in the Central can throw 2 quality lines on the ice. The Blues, Preds, and Jets all have similar quality (all good) d-corps to the Wild. We have a goalie that falls somewhere between the best and 5th best in the Division.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

This is wrong.

They'll be running Eichel-Mittelstadt-Berglund down the middle. Sobotka will most likely be their 3rd line LW with Girgensons as their 4C.

Eichel-Mittelstadt-Berglund is better than Staal-Koivu-Ek??

I wouldn’t start Mittelstadt at center.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Don't really care what Russo and LaPanta said on KFAN on Friday. This team is probably not making the playoffs this year. Central is deep as all get out. It'll take the Pacific to have a meltdown again and to get a WC position in my opinion. The only team that feels to have been lateral with us, has been Chicago in my eyes.

We were picked last in the division by a lot of people last year, and Dallas was supposed be great.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Vegas, San Jose, Anaheim, Nashville, Winnipeg, St. Louis are all 100% making the playoffs this year and I will die on that hill.

That leaves 2 spots between Flames, Wild, Kings, Avalanche, Blackhawks, Stars.

Can anyone say with certainty that the Wild would be 1 of those 2 teams?

I wouldn’t die on any of those Pacific division hills.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

1) Suter not being 100%
2) A decline in performance from Dubnyk & no adequate replacement in the Burglar or Stalock
3) Regression from Staal
4) No improvement from Nino & Coyle
5) Injury to Spurgeon or Granlund or Dumba or Zucker

Just a few things that have varying degrees of likelihood. Things like injury to Parise are somewhat higher in my estimation.

And with all due respect to @Minnesnota I think the Oilers have every bit as good a chance of making the playoffs as the Sharks or Knights (don't think we see the same performance from Fleury) and better than the Wild do - McDavid and Draisaitl won't carry the team alone but they'll be close.

Wild are in for a fight even if Greenway is a Calder candidate and JEE takes a massive leap.

We aren’t the only team that could see regression and or injuries.

 

[2Pair]

We aren’t the only team that could see regression and or injuries.

It's even possible that-
Suter comes back and looks exactly like he has for over a decade
Dubnyk has a better year than last thanks to an improved 3rd pair
Staal picks up where he left off
Nino and Coyle bounce back to where they should be
Spurgeon stays healthy and Granlund, Zucker, and Dumba continue to improve

 

[Dickie Dunn]

The most legit concern, imho, is a regression from Staal and i could hardly blame him after as good as he’s been. Unreasonable to keep expecting his current play.

 

[nickschultzfan]

Nino and Coyle will be better but I cannot say much about anybody else.

 

[BigT2002]

I’d bet money the Wild make the playoffs if they’re relatively healthy.

No reason to believe we won’t make it if healthy. The only team that gave us trouble this last year was Winnipeg and we were NOT healthy for much of the season.

See this post as reference:

Vegas, San Jose, Anaheim, Nashville, Winnipeg, St. Louis are all 100% making the playoffs this year and I will die on that hill.

That leaves 2 spots between Flames, Wild, Kings, Avalanche, Blackhawks, Stars.

Can anyone say with certainty that the Wild would be 1 of those 2 teams?

Kings are probably making it if Kovy comes back with any semblance of form he had before he darted to the KHL. So that leaves 3 teams in our division. And to kind of go back on your own quote, Chicago bombed out HARD because of a lackluster year from JT and Crawford going down earlier in the season and then relying heavily on AHL 2nd string quality goalies to play. I don't think that is going to be a problem for the once Central Division Champs.

So ya, I'm inclined to say even if the Wild are healthy (which I can't think at any time in the last 3 years where they were not losing significant time from players in the Top 6 or Top 4) it is going to be a bear fight this year. They will literally have to maintain their amazing home record and they better get out on the right foot at the start of the season if they think they're making it. 18-20 on the road isn't something I'm inclined to believe will do it as a Divisional Lock for the playoffs. At this point, I'm more pressed to think it'll be the #8 seed, if at all. All speculative right now obviously. But some of these guys have to step it up to take the weight off the shoulders for those who saved their rears with scoring. Everything you're saying is relying heavily on players like Staal and Zucker to produce the amount of goals they did last season this upcoming season...If they even get into the 20 goal categories, that is still almost 30 goals left on the table from last year.

I want to believe, but signing fringe level players to your Bottom 6 that are going to be in and out of the line up isn't a promising start to the offseason. But hey, if they can play like they did the last couple months of the season, could be a fun year too.

 

[Digitalbooya]

1) I like that they hired Tom Kurvers, but they need to make more adjustments to their front office. It's now been a few weeks since the end of the draft. It's time to start re-hauling their front office (and yes, I know that Fletcher extended a lot of front office people, but it doesn't seem to matter). Minnesota is also one of - if not the only - team to have three Assistant GMs. Generally teams only run 1-2 GMs. But more scouts, adjustments to the player development team.

2) More concrete rumors than some vague non-sense of Minnesota may or not be looking at trades. I'm not saying, player X, Y or Z - but more like Minnesota is specifically targeting x type of player on x team. The A.A trade rumor is interesting and more of what I want to hear from a team wanting to make 'tweaks'.

3) A little more of the road plan for the future. The only substantial player up for contract renewal is Staal next year and I have this fear that we are not going to move him at the deadline, because we are right in the middle of a playoff run.

Honestly, as much as it pains me to say this, I honestly think we should have stuck with GMCF if this was going to be our offseason until he got us bounced out of the playoffs. It seems that we are stuck with the same old, same old here.

Lackluster first round pick (picking safe players that have low ceilings), fiddling with the bottom 6 and that's about it.

I like that you wrote up this decently sized post, which most of it I agree with, and yet the question I asked wasn’t addressed at all.

See this post as reference:



Kings are probably making it if Kovy comes back with any semblance of form he had before he darted to the KHL. So that leaves 3 teams in our division. And to kind of go back on your own quote, Chicago bombed out HARD because of a lackluster year from JT and Crawford going down earlier in the season and then relying heavily on AHL 2nd string quality goalies to play. I don't think that is going to be a problem for the once Central Division Champs.

So ya, I'm inclined to say even if the Wild are healthy (which I can't think at any time in the last 3 years where they were not losing significant time from players in the Top 6 or Top 4) it is going to be a bear fight this year. They will literally have to maintain their amazing home record and they better get out on the right foot at the start of the season if they think they're making it. 18-20 on the road isn't something I'm inclined to believe will do it as a Divisional Lock for the playoffs. At this point, I'm more pressed to think it'll be the #8 seed, if at all. All speculative right now obviously. But some of these guys have to step it up to take the weight off the shoulders for those who saved their rears with scoring. Everything you're saying is relying heavily on players like Staal and Zucker to produce the amount of goals they did last season this upcoming season...If they even get into the 20 goal categories, that is still almost 30 goals left on the table from last year.

I want to believe, but signing fringe level players to your Bottom 6 that are going to be in and out of the line up isn't a promising start to the offseason. But hey, if they can play like they did the last couple months of the season, could be a fun year too.

It’s the same crap every year. Team x, y, z will all leap frog us because of a, b, c reason.

How about Minnesota having a healthy Parise back? Nino and Coyle will improve with health. JEE should improve. Full season of Greenway as well. The emergence of Nick Seeler. Oh, the guy who is a #4 was signed to our third pairing (people complaining about this need to realize Spurgeon and Brodin are a lock to miss games almost every year).

The bottom 6 was an issue last year and GMPF set out to get those types of players to fix that problem so we don’t have players like Kunin wasting away there. He didn’t have the cap space to fix anything else in free agency and now it’s up to trades for “tweaks.” People complaining because the Wild didn’t sign a big free agent due to cap space would be the same people complaining about any trade that would have freed up a large portion of cap (Nino+Zucker for Domi+Dvorak anyone?).

 

[Minnesnota]

I like that you wrote up this decently sized post, which most of it I agree with, and yet the question I asked wasn’t addressed at all.

It’s the same crap every year. Team x, y, z will all leap frog us because of a, b, c reason.

How about Minnesota having a healthy Parise back? Nino and Coyle will improve with health. JEE should improve. Full season of Greenway as well. The emergence of Nick Seeler. Oh, the guy who is a #4 was signed to our third pairing (people complaining about this need to realize Spurgeon and Brodin are a lock to miss games almost every year).

The bottom 6 was an issue last year and GMPF set out to get those types of players to fix that problem so we don’t have players like Kunin wasting away there. He didn’t have the cap space to fix anything else in free agency and now it’s up to trades for “tweaks.” People complaining because the Wild didn’t sign a big free agent due to cap space would be the same people complaining about any trade that would have freed up a large portion of cap (Nino+Zucker for Domi+Dvorak anyone?).

You're fighting "what abouts" with your own "what abouts".

If no team in the Central got worse, yet many of them will benefit from healthy key players, added significant improvements, or will see improvement from current roster plays - how do you find confidence in thinking the Wild won't lose the war of attrition?

Just making it to the playoffs is NOT GOOD ENOUGH. You're criticizing people who want more from an organization who has been content with the status quo of skidding into the playoffs only to get beat handily by better teams.

How many times in the past 6 years have you looked at a playoff matchup the Wild have had and thought to yourself, "Yea - Wild have a great chance to win this series." only for them to get trounced and we talk about the same issues year after year?

 

[57special]

I will be very surprised if Vegas is as successful this year. Also don't think that STL is a shoo-in to be better, not SJS.
MN needs to be mentally tougher. I don't know how that happens, but I do know that BB can't just stick players out there in the playoffs without any thought, or a gameplan. At some point he has to take responsibility for the team's post season record.

 

[thestonedkoala]

I like that you wrote up this decently sized post, which most of it I agree with, and yet the question I asked wasn’t addressed at all.

What were we expecting in free agency essentially? Well, the trades play a part of it because it could open up either more cap room or a different type of space for the team. It would also put the team in a different direction depending on who is traded.

Hiring better scouts? Better player development? Reassures us that the moves in free agency is due to internal growth and development and right now the tweaks were are looking at and for are going to be the development of players outside Risebrough or Fletcher's regime.

Finally, a road map is handy because instead of being pissy about who we didn't sign, we can see about next year or the year after.

 

[Digitalbooya]

You're fighting "what abouts" with your own "what abouts".

If no team in the Central got worse, yet many of them will benefit from healthy key players, added significant improvements, or will see improvement from current roster plays - how do you find confidence in thinking the Wild won't lose the war of attrition?

Just making it to the playoffs is NOT GOOD ENOUGH. You're criticizing people who want more from an organization who has been content with the status quo of skidding into the playoffs only to get beat handily by better teams.

How many times in the past 6 years have you looked at a playoff matchup the Wild have had and thought to yourself, "Yea - Wild have a great chance to win this series." only for them to get trounced and we talk about the same issues year after year?

I’m not criticizing people for wanting more in the playoffs. I will criticize those who think we won’t make the playoffs with a healthy roster. Place an avatar bet on it if you disagree.

People are going about trades the wrong way. They want something to happen because things need to change. But what if a trade hasn’t happened because everyone is low balling offers? Should GMPF just accept a low ball offer to appease the critics? Cause you know in the end it’s going to be those same people calling for him to lose his job if he does go through with a bad trade.

What were we expecting in free agency essentially? Well, the trades play a part of it because it could open up either more cap room or a different type of space for the team. It would also put the team in a different direction depending on who is traded.

Hiring better scouts? Better player development? Reassures us that the moves in free agency is due to internal growth and development and right now the tweaks were are looking at and for are going to be the development of players outside Risebrough or Fletcher's regime.

Finally, a road map is handy because instead of being pissy about who we didn't sign, we can see about next year or the year after.

So you’d have been okay with Zucker+Nino+Ennis for Domi+Dvorak? Cause that is the type of deal you’d be looking at.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Finished #8 in the league with:
-Nino leg injury
-Coyle leg and hand injuries
-Parise out half the season from surgery
-Spurgeon tore his hamstring and had a groin injury
-Brodin broke his left hand

Tell me why being a top 10 team and making the playoffs is suddenly going to change with a healthy roster and a reformed bottom 6/3rd pair.

 

[Binister]

Vegas, San Jose, Anaheim, Nashville, Winnipeg, St. Louis are all 100% making the playoffs this year and I will die on that hill.

That leaves 2 spots between Flames, Wild, Kings, Avalanche, Blackhawks, Stars.

Can anyone say with certainty that the Wild would be 1 of those 2 teams?

Sure sure like all the rest of the times. We just get a first round exit and go off to next season while turning the another page of Groundhog Day. We get that mediocre first round pick and acquire some meat to bottom six. Then we are fighting for Wild Card again and won't sell any of our players and acquire mattmoulsons. /sarcasm

I would seriously take the route of rebuild and being a dumpster fire for a season or two than hang around at the wild card spot and get eliminated in four.

 

[Minnesnota]

Since the 2012-2013 season, the Wild have finished:

15th - WC2, lost to C1 in 1st round 4-1, outscored 17-7, .905sv%
11th - WC1, lost to C3 in 2nd round 4-2, outscored 15-13, .904sv%
11th - WC1, lost to C3 in 2nd round 4-2, outscored 13-7, .901sv%
17th - WC2, lost to C1 in 1st round 4-2, outscored 21-17, .877sv%,
5th - C2, lost to C3 in 1st round 4-1, outscored 11-8, .925sv%
8th - C3, lost to C2 in 1st round 4-1, outscored 16-9, .911sv%

The most recent excuse is "injuries".
2 years ago it was "ran into a hot goalie".
Year before that it was "bad goaltending".

The way some people talk about this roster somehow being good enough to win a Stanley Cup they sure as hell prove you guys wrong year after year.

Fact of the matter is the Wild just aren't good enough. Is this a Stanley Cup contending team? No. So let's stop acting like they are and call them what they are: average. The regular season means nothing if you can't compete in the playoffs.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Might as well turn the team into Edmonton and go for top picks. It’s worked out so well for them. What is it, year 12 on the rebuild?

 

[Saga of the Elk]

We aren’t the only team that could see regression and or injuries.

Dr. Obvious Itor, thanks for that. I think the Wild could be a 100+ point playoff team again, for the record. But there are question marks. The plan that Fenton is currently executing is a reload for 2018-19 campaign, cheap 1-year deals for vets to help ease the roles for Kunin, JEE, and Greenway and plug some roster holes. If some of the problems I mentioned come to pass (Suter most glaringly) then the only real problem the team has cap-wise is Parise's salary. That's not bad. Other teams have more money, more term, in worse players. I've posted all over the place about the upside of this prospect group, the benefits of this ownership group, and the good culture that the Wild as an organization has. Cheap, condescending comments really don't further the conversation.

 

[57special]

What were you two expecting them to do in free agency?

Something a hell of a lot better than Greg f***ing Pateryn for term and money, instead of Folin for 1/3rd the cost. Or any of the other plugs they signed. It's like they decided to double down on being lame. I'm not the biggest Duclair fan, but he went for dirt, and at least you can make a case for him having some potential. Winnik and Cullen were far better, also.
There is a bit of urgency to running a team, especially one who has shit the bed in the playoffs for multiple years running. Fenton doesn't seem to understand that, or is so arrogant that he thinks he can blow off this season with no ill effects.
It's very early, but I am getting a bad feeling about this guy. His FA signings, and drafting has been mediocre at best, it seems. We'll see how he does on re-signing Dumba and Zucker. Hopefully it's not Zucker at 6M, and Dumba at 7M.

 

[Saga of the Elk]

Something a hell of a lot better than Greg ****ing Pateryn for term and money, instead of Folin for 1/3rd the cost. Or any of the other plugs they signed. It's like they decided to double down on being lame. I'm not the biggest Duclair fan, but he went for dirt, and at least you can make a case for him having some potential. Winnik and Cullen were far better, also.
There is a bit of urgency to running a team, especially one who has **** the bed in the playoffs for multiple years running. Fenton doesn't seem to understand that, or is so arrogant that he thinks he can blow off this season with no ill effects.
It's very early, but I am getting a bad feeling about this guy. His FA signings, and drafting has been mediocre at best, it seems. We'll see how he does on re-signing Dumba and Zucker. Hopefully it's not Zucker at 6M, and Dumba at 7M.

I mean, his drafting? Guy picked Josi and Weber in the 2nd round. Why not wait and see if this kid can play?

Where would Duclair play? They have Zucker, Parise, Greenway, Foligno down the left flank and he wanted a higher role. They needed pk guys - they picked a capable right-handed center with experience and much younger to fill the Cullen role. Brown is also an underrated defensive guy. Pateryn is a fine middle-pairing guy who played against tough opposition all last season - is that not the plan with him?

These are sensible moves for a team that doesn't know important things about next fall, that made the playoffs and has a chance to be back.

We'll see on the contracts. Dumba at Spurgeon's money makes some sense, shouldn't be much more.

 

[BigT2002]

I will be very surprised if Vegas is as successful this year. Also don't think that STL is a shoo-in to be better, not SJS.
MN needs to be mentally tougher. I don't know how that happens, but I do know that BB can't just stick players out there in the playoffs without any thought, or a gameplan. At some point he has to take responsibility for the team's post season record.

I'm on the fence with Vegas. Pacific isn't that amazing, but people write off Calgary and Edmonton way too easily in my mind. Are they going to be a Top 3 team in Pacific? Maybe. Vancouver is going to be a trainwreck, and who knows if Arizona ever figures it out. By all accounts purpose...if say Calgary and Edmonton have mediocre years, that could be 4 teams that the other 3 can beat up on all season long. It is doable. Moreso than in my mind Minnesota coming out and tackling Winnipeg and Nashville for instance.

And MN has always been mentality fragile in my opinion. Without really watching what other teams issues are, it appears they are basically one of the only teams with some of the locker room issues that seem to plague it. Front office upset because players bring in other players to help with their game. Coaches relegating prospects to 3/4th line minutes. Captains demanding to play with certain players. Etc. I need to follow some of the other teams on Athletic more to see if they deal with it too.