Minnesota Wild General Discussion IX

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2Pair

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Oct 8, 2017
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All I'm contradicting is that this an ELITE blue line - I realize the team has issues in net and with defensively responsible forwards atm, but an ELITE d-corps would negate some of those flaws. This isn't the case.
It has been an ELITE blue line for a few years now. If the argument is that they haven't been ELITE through the first five games? I think that's a fair statement, but you also have to realize that the offense and goaltending has played a very large role in all of that.
 

nickschultzfan

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Jan 7, 2009
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Maybe the course is fairly straight forward.

This year, let Guerin offload vets who are not getting the job done in the defensive end, even if they are big names. Put Donato, Greenway, and Kunin back in Iowa. Let the tank happen for 1 year.

Give big minutes to JEE to help him improve his faceoffs and defensive coverage. Maybe he can develop into a serviceable 2nd line center.

Grab a top-5 pick. Next year add Kaprizov. Maybe Boldy.
 

dBoon

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Sep 28, 2004
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Very good and elite are different. You all are making excuses for a very good defense corps. Elite defense makes up for all the causes you are citing. Again, its just something TSK threw out there. Just a case of morphology. I am certainly not saying they are the cause of the Wild's woes: Dubnyk, no offense, those are certainly bigger problems. I just don't see them as elite.
 

TaLoN

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Very good and elite are different. You all are making excuses for a very good defense corps. Elite defense makes up for all the causes you are citing. Again, its just something TSK threw out there. Just a case of morphology. I am certainly not saying they are the cause of the Wild's woes: Dubnyk, no offense, those are certainly bigger problems. I just don't see them as elite.
We have an elite top 4, below avg goaltending, terrible offense and defense from the forward position, are completely hit or miss in the faceoff circle.

I'm sorry, but I disagree. 4 players combining to make an elite unit cannot single handedly overcome all those negatives vs teams that don't have all those negatives.
 

NHL1674

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Tanking doesn't guarantee a top 3 or top 5 pick either. Many teams have finished horribly, yet got screwed by the lottery pushing them out of that field.
 

SupremeNachos

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Dec 6, 2011
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Where is the old system when we need it?
It's been replaced by this
giphy.gif
 
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Bazeek

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Higher odds are higher odds. Should our goal be to lower our odds?
It depends on what you gave up for those higher odds, especially in a sport as chaotic as hockey. Sometimes a "good team on paper" can be horrifically bad due to injuries or bad luck, while a "bad team on paper" can go on a few lucky streaks and stay in the bubble. You have to do some pretty dramatic things (a la Buffalo) to really lock in at the bottom of the standings, things that could make it harder to pull out of the dive once things are "rebuilt."

Edmonton and Buffalo should be cautionary tales to anyone thinking about deliberately tanking. Being that bad can have effects that linger for a lot longer than you'd expect, so you've got to be measured about the damage you do in pursuit of incrementally higher lottery odds.
 

nickschultzfan

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It depends on what you gave up for those higher odds, especially in a sport as chaotic as hockey. Sometimes a "good team on paper" can be horrifically bad due to injuries or bad luck, while a "bad team on paper" can go on a few lucky streaks and stay in the bubble. You have to do some pretty dramatic things (a la Buffalo) to really lock in at the bottom of the standings, things that could make it harder to pull out of the dive once things are "rebuilt."

Edmonton and Buffalo should be cautionary tales to anyone thinking about deliberately tanking. Being that bad can have effects that linger for a lot longer than you'd expect, so you've got to be measured about the damage you do in pursuit of incrementally higher lottery odds.
How exactly are Edmonton and Buffalo cautionary tales of tanking rather than cautionary of bad management?

Wild never tanked, and we just witnessed what bad management does to a franchise.

I am not persuaded by statements like "tanking doesn't guarantee high draft pick" or "high draft pick doesn't a great player" or "greats players don't guarantee Cups". Isn't that obvious?

What business is professional hockey in? It sure isn't the guarantee business.

You pick long-term strategies if you want to have long-term results. Wild, for the most part, have chosen short-term strategies. We should try a different approach.
 

16thOverallSaveUs

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"Fans" aren't monolithic enough to be any one thing. Most are unhappy when they lose and happy when they win. Some are unhappy when they win in the wrong way or in the wrong context. Some are happy when they lose as long as it's a step toward something they value more, like a high draft pick. That sort of dissensus is inevitable and healthy, at least in my eyes.

Right now the team is just in uncertain territory: same problems under a new GM with losses piling up. Personally I kind of enjoy the tension :laugh:
The sign of a truly great Mod is a love of beef :)
 
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Bazeek

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How exactly are Edmonton and Buffalo cautionary tales of tanking rather than cautionary of bad management?

Wild never tanked, and we just witnessed what bad management does to a franchise.

I am not persuaded by statements like "tanking doesn't guarantee high draft pick" or "high draft pick doesn't a great player" or "greats players don't guarantee Cups". Isn't that obvious?

What business is professional hockey in? It sure isn't the guarantee business.

You pick long-term strategies if you want to have long-term results. Wild, for the most part, have chosen short-term strategies. We should try a different approach.
I'm not disagreeing with a different approach, I'm just pointing out the dangers in outright tanking.

I guess it really comes down to how much one thinks the outcome of a rebuild is a function of process versus a function of luck. If you think that it's mostly controllable and it's just a matter of good management, then I think you could make an argument for it. But I'm skeptical of that, especially with the draft lottery being central to the whole thing. The standings, lottery odds, strength of a given draft, prospect development, injuries... all of those variables seem mostly outside the control of management. It's hard for me to shake the idea that tanking's a strategy built on gambling.

Which isn't to say that we should avoid changing course if the team continues to flounder. It would make a lot of sense to try to sell a forward or two for futures, especially since we'll have to do that to make room for Kaprizov anyway. Maybe Brodin, who's been good this year. But if tanking entails jumping into a 3-5 year rebuild, I think it's premature for that. Personally, Boldy + Kaprizov + a high pick this year + our existing defense looks like a good base to move forward with next year.
 

AKL

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I don’t think tanking has any meaning anymore. Too many people using it to mean too many different things.

I think it’s reasonable to say that if we’re clearly out of the playoff hunt by the deadline we can be sellers with pieces like Koivu (if he waives) and Staal for sure. We also still need to move at least two wingers.

I wouldn’t hate to see Koivu or Staal moved at the deadline and then something like Zucker+Greenway/Donato in the off-season for a second line center if one is available.
 

DANOZ28

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im just dreaming about improving the team for the future. what if we could pull off trading koivu; staal; parise & zuccarello for 2-2nds each then dumping rask somehow. stink a couple years ending up with a young , fast hungry team.
 

ThatGuy22

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Oct 11, 2011
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All I'm contradicting is that this an ELITE blue line - I realize the team has issues in net and with defensively responsible forwards atm, but an ELITE d-corps would negate some of those flaws. This isn't the case.

The defense is absolutely elite. They are doing exactly what they always do, suppress scoring chances against better than everyone else in the league. Even in the short sample size of this season, they are at the very top of the league in xGA/60, SCA/60 and HDCA/60. On top of that, they are basically driving our offense.

4 empty netters, and Dubnyk being terrible for the last 2-3 years don't change that. Neither does the forward core being impotent. Our teams 3 leading scorers are D, and they have 12 out of the 30 points on our team.

The D is the only thing keeping this team from trying to make a run at Colorado's 48 point season.
 

Northerner

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Feb 23, 2017
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Dubnyk is average. I love it. I guess selection to All Star game 3 out of 4 seasons is average. On some planet somewhere.


Dubnyk named to 2019 NHL All-Star Game


Dubnyk will be making his third NHL All-Star Game appearance in his last four seasons with Minnesota. The 6-foot-6, 223-pound native of Regina, Sask., is 13-14-3 with a 2.62 goals-against average (GAA) and a .912 save percentage (SV%) in 31 games with Minnesota this season. Since being acquired by the Wild via trade on Jan. 14, 2015, he is 147-84-23 with a 2.30 GAA, a .921 SV% and 20 shutouts in 262 games and leads the NHL in games played and shutouts, ranks second in wins and T-2nd in GAA and SV% (min. 175 games). Dubnyk was awarded the NHL's 2015 Bill Masterton Memorial Trophy for perseverance, sportsmanship and dedication to hockey, was named to the NHL's Second All-Star Team and finished third in Vezina Trophy voting and fourth in Hart Trophy voting. Dubnyk is 217-166-47 with a 2.54 GAA, a .916 SV% and 29 shutouts in 454 career NHL games with Edmonton, Nashville, Arizona and Minnesota.


Hahaha
 
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