KaseMeOutside
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- Oct 18, 2011
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Trade: [MIN/PHI] Sam Bradford to the Vikings for 1st rounder in 2017 & 4th rounder in 2018
- Thread starter Marc the Habs Fan
- Start date
What the Faulk
You'll know when you go
Rick Spielman did the same when he was with the Dolphins and Ricky Williams suddenly retired. He panicked and traded a 3rd for Lamar Gordon, St. Louis' 3rd string RB. Totaled like 75 yards in Miami.
Marc the Habs Fan
Moderator
Team performance.
If Vikings go to NFC Championship game this season, conditional 4th-round pick in 2018 becomes a 3rd; if Vikings win SB, it becomes a 2nd.
Big McLargehuge
Fragile Traveler
I...what in the actual ****, Minnesota? In what world is Bradford still worth a first round pick, never mind an additional fourth?
I know it's a panic move, but holy **** this is dumb.
I know it's a panic move, but holy **** this is dumb.
Really stupid question from a non-football person: Is getting an elite QB mostly luck? Just how much organizational skill is involved in getting something like a top 5 quarterback? Seems like horrible odds if I only base it on draft rank, but like I said, I'm clueless.
Marc the Habs Fan
Moderator
Considering there are like....5 elite QB's right now...and only one was a top pick...yes, a lot of luck is required.
Brady was a late round pick that, for all we know, may be selling insurance right now if not for Bledsoe getting hurt.
Rodgers somehow fell to late in the 1st round.
Big Ben somehow fell to the teens in the 1st round.
Wilson was a 3rd rounder.
Newton the lone exception as the top pick of the draft.
Yeah, that's what I'd seen, just didn't know if it was something in those particular organizations or personnel at the time that produced such an elite result, or some other way to attribute it beyond luck.
That's the thing though. That dearth of QBs is the reason why the Eagles were able to get a first for Bradford. He's still a starting caliber QB.
No matter how mediocre said starter might be, they're still worth a hefty price because of it. The Alex Smiths, the Jay Cutlers, and Ryan Tannehills of the world would all fetch the same price.
I still think it's an ok move. It lets the Vikes not worry about teams stacking against AP and gives them a guy who fits a similar skillset as Bridgewater.
No matter how mediocre said starter might be, they're still worth a hefty price because of it. The Alex Smiths, the Jay Cutlers, and Ryan Tannehills of the world would all fetch the same price.
I still think it's an ok move. It lets the Vikes not worry about teams stacking against AP and gives them a guy who fits a similar skillset as Bridgewater.
Gene Parmesan
Dedicated to babies who came feet first
Finlandia WOAT
js7.4x8fnmcf5070124
- May 23, 2010
- 24,192
- 23,870
A big part is getting the right system and players around a QB. A team has more trouble winning without a good QB than without perhaps any other position on the team- but even still, the QB is reliant on his o-line, receivers and coaching, in addition to his own talent and skill.
Newton may be an athletic freak, MVP player, whatever, but he has a consistent top 5 defense + an offense that is tailored to his style as QB (which I'm copying from the resident football coach on this board btw) behind him.
Alex Jones
BIG BOWL 'A CHILI!!
Bradford isn't a bad QB. If you give him some help and a rhythm passing game he can get you 20+ TD's. You have remember he played in the most vanilla offense on earth in St Louis. If anything, I think he's underrated at this point.
Gene Parmesan
Dedicated to babies who came feet first
Voight
#winning
He's farm from underrated. He's just another over hyped college QB that didn't pan out. Not to mention his knees are still somewhat fragile and are a hard low hit away from imploding again.
Also yea sure he can get you 20 TDs... had 19 last year... with 14 INT.
I said from when Bridgewater got injured they should have either gave a late conditional pick for Sanchize or waited for him to be released. They are not that far apart and you'd still have a precious first round pick.
Voight
#winning
Gene Parmesan
Dedicated to babies who came feet first
Big McLargehuge
Fragile Traveler
FWIW Big Ben was ranked right there with Rivers and Eli, the reason he fell were as simple as there only being two teams in the top 10 that needed QBs at the time and the fact that Roethlisberger went to a MAC school instead of a power conference like Rivers or Manning. There were plenty that saw Roethlisberger having the most upside of the three, but he was also seen as having the lowest floor because of the level of competition he was facing with Miami (OH).
If the Steelers had the 5th overall pick, Roethlisberger would have been the 5th overall pick, but they had the 11th pick and nobody picking in the 5-10 range was going to take a QB so the Steelers took the chance that he'd be there at 11, and thankfully he was.
History would be quite different if the Bills decided to trade up into the top 10 to draft Big Ben instead of taking the 1-2 combo of Lee Evans and J.P. Losman in the 1st round, but the Bills were absolutely smitten with Losman. And that's why the Steelers are the Steelers and the Bills are the Bills
TheMoreYouKnow
Registered User
It's all draft position, if Bradford had been a 7th round pick, he would have been out of the league years ago but high 1st round pick buys you a lot of chances typically.
Voight
#winning
FWIW Big Ben was ranked right there with Rivers and Eli, the reason he fell were as simple as there only being two teams in the top 10 that needed QBs at the time and the fact that Roethlisberger went to a MAC school instead of a power conference like Rivers or Manning. There were plenty that saw Roethlisberger having the most upside of the three, but he was also seen as having the lowest floor because of the level of competition he was facing with Miami (OH).
If the Steelers had the 5th overall pick, Roethlisberger would have been the 5th overall pick, but they had the 11th pick and nobody picking in the 5-10 range was going to take a QB so the Steelers took the chance that he'd be there at 11, and thankfully he was.
History would be quite different if the Bills decided to trade up into the top 10 to draft Big Ben instead of taking the 1-2 combo of Lee Evans and J.P. Losman in the 1st round, but the Bills were absolutely smitten with Losman. And that's why the Steelers are the Steelers and the Bills are the Bills
Leigh Steinberg once said there was a stupid rumor that floated around that Big Ben was going to be a pain in the ass to sign (Steinbergs his agent).
But yea, even going back to HS he never had the hype that Eli & Rivers had, and then going to a smaller college didn't help his profile either, regardless he's laughing now.
gopherman23
Registered User
Sanchez has a knack for turning the ball over at critical moments in the game though. If he didn't have such brainfarts he would be on Bradford's level. Sanchize would not mesh well with the Vikings ball-control style they will likely play this year.
Avs_19
Registered User
- Jun 28, 2007
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I agree. He's not worth what teams keep giving up for him and he's probably overpaid but he's not a bad QB. He started off pretty terrible last season and looked as bad as Sanchez but he was still getting comfortable after the knee injury. His receivers also weren't doing him many favours with the balls they dropped. He finished the season strong though.
I still wouldn't have made the trade and I disagree with the "you have to do it because of Peterson's age" narrative but Bradford will make the team better if (big if) he stays healthy. He doesn't have to be a hero out there with Peterson behind him and the Vikings defense. I think he could have some success in the short/intermediate passing game as well with Diggs and Rudolph as options.
JCD
Registered User
Positive spin: Vikings improve at QB who can give them a shot at the post season behind the running game and defense. Outside chance he blossoms. Team is committing to a win now mentality. Might be able to salvage a pick trading away whomever is t starting in 2017.
Negative spin: panic move pricing. For a team still building their foundation, giving up a first is very damaging. Even say Bradford was the best QB on the market, the difference in price between him and the pack is staggering.
Summary: verdict decided based on how the season playa out. Bradford leads the team to a post season run and looks the part, deal doesn't look as bad. Bradford bombs and Vikings finish around 500, spielman will have a lot to make up for.
Negative spin: panic move pricing. For a team still building their foundation, giving up a first is very damaging. Even say Bradford was the best QB on the market, the difference in price between him and the pack is staggering.
Summary: verdict decided based on how the season playa out. Bradford leads the team to a post season run and looks the part, deal doesn't look as bad. Bradford bombs and Vikings finish around 500, spielman will have a lot to make up for.
Marc the Habs Fan
Moderator
Peter King breaks down the trade talks with insight from both GM's. Great read: http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/09/04/sam-bradford-trade-minnesota-vikings-philadelphia-eagles-nfl
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