Mike Richards VII Why can't we be Friends(Mod note and update Post #1)

[HookKing]

Who says Richards told his agent?

I think the agent was in the dark too, because he has a fiduciary responsibility to inform the league of Richards' predicament.

I never said he did, just that that is the most logical explanation since DL found out on draft day vs. some other random day.

 

[Ron*]

They would have pulled it off of it wasn't for those meddling kids.

Network's animated foray into the early '70s society, from left to right:

Fred - the hunk
Velma - the lesbian
Scooby - the human non-dog
Shaggy - the only malnourished hippie in the country who didn't take drugs
Daphne - the hottie

Hey, the show was ahead of its time. At least they didn't **** with young kids' minds like the guys behind these two psychotics did:

 

[417th]

So wait, how is the NHLPA going to use Voynov to hammer the Kings on Richards deal again? Ooooooooh, that's right, the can't. I can't wait for this whole enchilada to get served up proper so that we can let the main board Kings haters get back to hating us for being one of the best teams in the league every year.

Tired of reading the "HE WASN'T EVEN CHARGED WITH A CRIME" argument and now that he was arrested there is allot of defensive posters out there trying find other means to justify why Lombardi is the devil. I have no idea why the contract was terminated and freely admit that fact but then none of us know any more than the rest of us but there sure has been a ton of ridiculous assumptions said about us based on the small amount of informaiton that has been available. Meanwhile RoR is still waiting to see if he is going to be charged for felony hit and run along with his DWI charges and Kane very well could be a rapist. Those topics are taboo but really only because the Kings were supposed to remain one of the worst teams in the league and by turning the franchise around and becoming champions we spoiled everyone's party. We were the taco's of our league, everyone counted on us for an easy win and many allowed us our 1st cup but after that we were supposed to know our place and go away quietly.

Richards had his contract terminated by one of the best GM's in the game today who is also one of the most methodical people you could ever want to meet. He may not be infallible but he doesn't usually make major decisions willy nilly. We could end up eating MR's contract but that could have happened anyway but I don't see DL as being the kind of GM who would make the kind of gamble that some posters seem to think that he has made. It just isn't the way the guy is wired. Oh well, like I said I can't wait until this whole thing is over.

 

[Ron*]

I never said he did, just that that is the most logical explanation since DL found out on draft day vs. some other random day.

Doubtful. My opinion: Richards' agent didn't know any more than we did.

 

[HookKing]

So wait, how is the NHLPA going to use Voynov to hammer the Kings on Richards deal again? Ooooooooh, that's right, the can't. I can't wait for this whole enchilada to get served up proper so that we can let the main board Kings haters get back to hating us for being one of the best teams in the league every year.

Tired of reading the "HE WASN'T EVEN CHARGED WITH A CRIME" argument and now that he was arrested there is allot of defensive posters out there trying find other means to justify why Lombardi is the devil. I have no idea why the contract was terminated and freely admit that fact but then none of us know any more than the rest of us but there sure has been a ton of ridiculous assumptions said about us based on the small amount of informaiton that has been available. Meanwhile RoR is still waiting to see if he is going to be charged for felony hit and run along with his DWI charges and Kane very well could be a rapist. Those topics are taboo but really only because the Kings were supposed to remain one of the worst teams in the league and by turning the franchise around and becoming champions we spoiled everyone's party. We were the taco's of our league, everyone counted on us for an easy win and many allowed us our 1st cup but after that we were supposed to know our place and go away quietly.

Richards had his contract terminated by one of the best GM's in the game today who is also one of the most methodical people you could ever want to meet. He may not be infallible but he doesn't usually make major decisions willy nilly. We could end up eating MR's contract but that could have happened anyway but I don't see DL as being the kind of GM who would make the kind of gamble that some posters seem to think that he has made. It just isn't the way the guy is wired. Oh well, like I said I can't wait until this whole thing is over.

At worst, Richards will have some unpaid suspension coming.

 

[Ron*]

So wait, how is the NHLPA going to use Voynov to hammer the Kings on Richards deal again? Ooooooooh, that's right, the can't. I can't wait for this whole enchilada to get served up proper so that we can let the main board Kings haters get back to hating us for being one of the best teams in the league every year.

Don't waste your time. Trying to discuss hockey with the garbage on the main board is like trying to teach geometry to a cabbage field.

Actually, it's worse. At least cabbage doesn't respond with idiotic posts. Cabbage just sits there, and says nothing.

 

[Captain Mittens*]

Who says Richards told his agent?

I think the agent was in the dark too, because he has a fiduciary responsibility to inform the league of Richards' predicament.

I wanted to explore that the possibility existed based of the time frame of events.

And based on if I were Richards, I would use my one phone call to call my agent to call a lawyer

 

[417th]

Don't waste your time. Trying to discuss hockey with the garbage on the main board is like trying to teach geometry to a cabbage field.

Actually, it's worse. At least cabbage doesn't respond with idiotic posts. Cabbage just sits there, and says nothing.

Too true. Every now and then I get my Don Quixote lance out and feel the need to tilt at windmills. It always end up with me scratching my head. More cabbage less garbage would be a nice start over there.

 

[417th]

At worst, Richards will have some unpaid suspension coming.

Nobody knows with any certainty.

 

[kingsfan28]

Don't waste your time. Trying to discuss hockey with the garbage on the main board is like trying to teach geometry to a cabbage field.

Actually, it's worse. At least cabbage doesn't respond with idiotic posts. Cabbage just sits there, and says nothing.

No kidding! Lets see: throw the book at the Kings for trying to pull this crap; pure cap circumvention; f-ing cheating Kings pulling a fast one on the league; worst cap circumvention in league history; fine them millions and take away picks , and on and on...

 

[Trolfoli]

No kidding! Lets see: throw the book at the Kings for trying to pull this crap; pure cap circumvention; f-ing cheating Kings pulling a fast one on the league; worst cap circumvention in league history; fine them millions and take away picks , and on and on...

This must be why Lombardi is trading all the first round picks... Kings can't be penalized by giving up a first round until when? Suck it league!

On the armchair lawyer-ing.... from my brief, but seemingly larger sample size then it should be, experience with the law/court... you can look up all the precedent you want.... you can have tons of case law on your side... and the judge can just be having a bad morning and throw it all out the window anyways. You have no clue how a ruling will come out of a court. I can't imagine there's any more certainty when dealing with a league arbitrator.

 

[mouser]

You missed the additional information subsequent to that post. Richards was obligated to report his arrest to the SABH program. I would bet he did not since the Kings didn't know about the arrest until draft day.

IMO even if the Kings lose in arbitration, Richards will get suspended for not notifying the SABH program as required -- that omission clearly harmed the Kings in wasted efforts trying to trade him etc.

Moreover, once he is found guilty of possession or pleads to a lesser offense he automatically moves to stage 2 of SABH which includes suspension without pay.

I don't see the Kings having cap issues anytime soon.

Can you point me to anything in the SABH program that says the player is obligated to notify of an arrest?

 

[Bandit]

Can you point me to anything in the SABH program that says the player is obligated to notify of an arrest?

http://www.1800thelaw2.com/

 

[The Tikkanen]

Breaking news:drug addicts try to hide stuff from people they know. Also, we landed on the moon!

 

[HookKing]

Nobody knows with any certainty.

The only way he avoids it is if charges are dropped or he wins in court. Any plea results in stage 2 of the SABH which includes an automatic unpaid suspension.

 

[HookKing]

Can you point me to anything in the SABH program that says the player is obligated to notify of an arrest?

Section 4c.

 

[Fishhead]

Can you point me to anything in the SABH program that says the player is obligated to notify of an arrest?

Well, if any player is arrested for a controlled substance, he is required to submit to a substance abuse evaluation. Since the doctors assessment determines whether they go into stage 1, this is obviously a doctor chosen by the NHL.

So, yes, any player arrested would have to notify the league and submit to an evaluation.

 

[Ron*]

I wanted to explore that the possibility existed based of the time frame of events.

And based on if I were Richards, I would use my one phone call to call my agent to call a lawyer

If he was high on Oxy he might have called Arnold.

 

[Reclamation Project]

Maybe he thought he WAS Arnold?

 

[Ron*]

Happier Days...
.
.
.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Happier Days...
.
.
.

 

[mouser]

Well, if any player is arrested for a controlled substance, he is required to submit to a substance abuse evaluation. Since the doctors assessment determines whether they go into stage 1, this is obviously a doctor chosen by the NHL.

Yup, the SABH says that.

So, yes, any player arrested would have to notify the league and submit to an evaluation.

The SABH does not say that. Sorry if that sounds like nitpicking, but it's very important in collective bargaining situations like this where the NHL and NHLPA deliberately and carefully negotiated the SABH.

Let's imagine your supposition was true that players have an obligation to notify the SABH doctors of an arrest. The primary focus of the SABH is helping players through their substance abuse issues, not punishing them. It wouldn't make sense that the penalty (contract termination) for not notifying the SABH doctors of an arrest is bigger then the most severe discipline in the SABH for players that have repeatedly failed to adhere to their substance abuse treatment (indefinite suspension).

 

[Minor Boarding]

Yup, the SABH says that.


The SABH does not say that. Sorry if that sounds like nitpicking, but it's very important in collective bargaining situations like this where the NHL and NHLPA deliberately and carefully negotiated the SABH.

Let's imagine your supposition was true that players have an obligation to notify the SABH doctors of an arrest. The primary focus of the SABH is helping players through their substance abuse issues, not punishing them. It wouldn't make sense that the penalty (contract termination) for not notifying the SABH doctors of an arrest is bigger then the most severe discipline in the SABH for players that have repeatedly failed to adhere to their substance abuse treatment (indefinite suspension).

If you were my employee and you didn't notify me on a felony charge that might put you in prison I would fire you for breach of trust and potential damages for my company.


If you notified me I would at least have the information needed to prevent future company damages or have information needed for adding a employee for potential substitution.

 

[Sagebuster]

Yup, the SABH says that.


The SABH does not say that. Sorry if that sounds like nitpicking, but it's very important in collective bargaining situations like this where the NHL and NHLPA deliberately and carefully negotiated the SABH.

Let's imagine your supposition was true that players have an obligation to notify the SABH doctors of an arrest. The primary focus of the SABH is helping players through their substance abuse issues, not punishing them. It wouldn't make sense that the penalty (contract termination) for not notifying the SABH doctors of an arrest is bigger then the most severe discipline in the SABH for players that have repeatedly failed to adhere to their substance abuse treatment (indefinite suspension).

The two quotes are saying the same thing, so no, you aren't nitpicking, you're obfuscating.
As to whether it makes sense that a player risks termination for failing to abide by a requirement to participate in a substance abuse program that the league and union agreed to, I say why not. Such failure by the player to notify and initiate the substance abuse program could be seen as forfeiting the protection from punishment that program provides. It's called Carrot and Stick!

 

[Fishhead]

Yup, the SABH says that.


The SABH does not say that. Sorry if that sounds like nitpicking, but it's very important in collective bargaining situations like this where the NHL and NHLPA deliberately and carefully negotiated the SABH.

Let's imagine your supposition was true that players have an obligation to notify the SABH doctors of an arrest. The primary focus of the SABH is helping players through their substance abuse issues, not punishing them. It wouldn't make sense that the penalty (contract termination) for not notifying the SABH doctors of an arrest is bigger then the most severe discipline in the SABH for players that have repeatedly failed to adhere to their substance abuse treatment (indefinite suspension).

Can you come up with a scenario how a player could submit to a evaluation from a league program doctor without notifying them? Remember, because the purpose of the evaluation is to recommend or not recommend the league program, patient/doctor confidentiality will not apply here.

Also, no penalty is laid out there at all. It's just something a player has to do. Terminating the contract was the Kings, not the league. That's a whole different argument.