Mike Richards VII Why can't we be Friends(Mod note and update Post #1)

[kingsfan]

True. But you can bet the Richards camp will bring it up if Kings talk about hiding an arrest.

Each case would be on an individual basis and the Kings would simply counter argue that what another team does should not be used against them because they had no input into that decision, which is completely accurate. I'd wager the courts would side with the Kings on that issue not being able to be used as a precedent on that basis. If the NHL itself was filing the termination then that argument would hold more weight as the NHL does have the ability to have input on all teams decisions, directly or indirectly, while member clubs do not.

 

[kdb209]

At this point I think the those CBA clauses are irrelevant. Everything I have been able to find that triggers SABH is about failing (league/team) drug tests. Richards was arrested for possession and may not have been subsequently tested by the league. Why wouldn't he be subjected to suspension like any other criminal offender (SV)?

It seems to me that even if the arbitrator goes against the Kings Richards will be in for a suspension of some length. In the meantime, he will probably need to kick his oxy habit. He is now in the spotlight so it may be more difficult for him to fake it and stay under the radar.

My slightly inebriated $0.02.

The SABH covers arrests and convictions for drug related offenses.

C&P from the main board thread:

SABH section 4:

4. Discipline

Players may be disciplined for substance abuse violations depending on the nature and severity of the violation. As described below, players with identified substance abuse problems will be placed in a particular stage in the program, with disciplinary consequences associated with the stages as set forth below.

...

C. Discipline related to Criminal Arrests or Convictions

Any player arrested for a violation of law related to a controlled substance or substance abuse (including but not limited to driving under the influence, driving while introxicated, or the equivalent) is required to submit to a substance abuse evaluation and to such treatment as may be deemed appropriate by the program doctors. Under these circumstances, if the program doctors determine that treatment is required, the player will be placed in stage 1 of the alcohol or drug program.

If a player is convicted of a controlled substance offense (including under a plea arrangement or similar procedure), in addition to any other League discipline to which the player may be subject outside of this agreement, he will be automatically placed at stage 2 of the drug program.

Being arrested is clearly covered. If Richards is ultimately convicted then we may see other discipline come from the League in the future.

 

[LosANZElesKings]

The SABH covers arrests and convictions for drug related offenses.

Originally Posted by mouser

SABH section 4:
Quote:
4. Discipline

Players may be disciplined for substance abuse violations depending on the nature and severity of the violation. As described below, players with identified substance abuse problems will be placed in a particular stage in the program, with disciplinary consequences associated with the stages as set forth below.

...

C. Discipline related to Criminal Arrests or Convictions

Any player arrested for a violation of law related to a controlled substance or substance abuse (including but not limited to driving under the influence, driving while introxicated, or the equivalent) is required to submit to a substance abuse evaluation and to such treatment as may be deemed appropriate by the program doctors. Under these circumstances, if the program doctors determine that treatment is required, the player will be placed in stage 1 of the alcohol or drug program.

If a player is convicted of a controlled substance offense (including under a plea arrangement or similar procedure), in addition to any other League discipline to which the player may be subject outside of this agreement, he will be automatically placed at stage 2 of the drug program.

Being arrested is clearly covered. If Richards is ultimately convicted then we may see other discipline come from the League in the future.
C&P from the main board thread:

I am guessing that Richards did not submit a substance abuse evaluation as required.

I am not sure what "in addition to any other League discipline to which the player may be subject outside of this agreement" would mean. I am guessing suspensions as it says league discipline. Which would lead to me to ask can a team add further discipline?

Could Buffalo suspend ROR for DUI if the league did not? Or for additional games if they felt the suspension was too short (I know that would never happen)?

 

[LosANZElesKings]

Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
That doesn't mean what Pavalec did wasn't a breach. It could have been and the Jets elected to not file for a breach because they would rather keep him.

True. But you can bet the Richards camp will bring it up if Kings talk about hiding an arrest.

Would that be like telling a judge that other police officers let people off with warnings for speeding everyday, therefor the cop who gave me a speeding ticket should have let me off with a warning too?

 

[Ron*]

The SABH covers arrests and convictions for drug related offenses.

C&P from the main board thread:

It covers what happens in an arrest. It doesn't cover what happens if a player doesn't notify the team that he has been arrested.

 

[Fishhead]

It covers what happens in an arrest. It doesn't cover what happens if a player doesn't notify the team that he has been arrested.

Well, since he didn't even bother to notify them, he obviously didn't submit for an evaluation. No timetable is specified, however.

MR obviously violated this part of the contract, or was doing his best to.

 

[kdb209]

It covers what happens in an arrest. It doesn't cover what happens if a player doesn't notify the team that he has been arrested.

I was responding to HookKing's comment that the SABH only applied to failed drug tests.

That said, I find it extremely unlikely that failure to notify would be deemed a material breach.

 

[kingsfan]

I was responding to HookKing's comment that the SABH only applied to failed drug tests.

That said, I find it extremely unlikely that failure to notify would be deemed a material breach.

Please explain.

 

[Ron*]

I was responding to HookKing's comment that the SABH only applied to failed drug tests.

That said, I find it extremely unlikely that failure to notify would be deemed a material breach.

Are you a lawyer?

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[Kingsfan1]

The Kings will win. If not then they will trade either picks,prospects or a player or maybe combination of any to move him. **** it.

If Lucic is resigned Browns gone, we will find a way to make the cap work and ice the best team possible. I regard Zykov highly and believe Brown will be moved in favor of Zykov if Lucic fits in well.

 

[moosehead81]

That said, I find it extremely unlikely that failure to notify would be deemed a material breach.

Given that Mike Richards was "arrested" and, if so, read his rights, then my inclination would be to believe that he did notify somebody, likely his agent, and likely very quickly after the border incident. My thinking has always been that there was no "arrest" and Richards simply considered it a border/customs search detention, which is a common occurrence as most of us can attest to, and therefore not really a big deal. I find it hard to believe that an arrested person would not immediately advise some-one in authority and ask for advice. What would Richards' agent have advised him at that time?

Additionally, my question has been and continues to be, how did Dean Lombardi find out about the incident some almost 2 weeks later? I would be completely pissed as a Canadian citizen, if it came out that it was through the RCMP and/or the Canadian Border Services people. Also, why didn't his agent advise the Kings of the incident shortly thereafter, assuming his agent knew?

Of course, all this implies that people are basically smart and do the right things in all circumstances.

 

[HookKing]

I was responding to HookKing's comment that the SABH only applied to failed drug tests.

That said, I find it extremely unlikely that failure to notify would be deemed a material breach.

You missed the additional information subsequent to that post. Richards was obligated to report his arrest to the SABH program. I would bet he did not since the Kings didn't know about the arrest until draft day.

IMO even if the Kings lose in arbitration, Richards will get suspended for not notifying the SABH program as required -- that omission clearly harmed the Kings in wasted efforts trying to trade him etc.

Moreover, once he is found guilty of possession or pleads to a lesser offense he automatically moves to stage 2 of SABH which includes suspension without pay.

I don't see the Kings having cap issues anytime soon.

 

[kingsfan28]

No it didn't. He was never going to be the player pre 2010 again. Prior to the back surgery summer of 2011, from Aug 2010 to Aug 2011, he had 5 other injuries, including other surgeries.
And it showed in the few games he did [play in winter of 2011, he was mediocre. His body was breaking down.

Trading for him and giving up a boatload was what set them back.
( Joffrey Lupul, defenseman Luca Sbisa, first-round picks in 2009 and 2010 and a conditional third-round pick in 2010 or 2011.) Then signing the about to turn 35 yr old to 7 yrs/35M was awful.
SNiders' traditional 'giving up high picks, youth and prospects' for the aging veteran. It seldom works, esp when you have subpar goaltending.

The only thing that saved the Flyers from major cap hell was his last injury that put him on LTIR for the last 4 years.He's still getting paid, only now by the Coyotes after his contract was traded and the cap hit is on their books.

 

[Sagebuster]

Given that Mike Richards was "arrested" and, if so, read his rights, then my inclination would be to believe that he did notify somebody, likely his agent, and likely very quickly after the border incident. My thinking has always been that there was no "arrest" and Richards simply considered it a border/customs search detention, which is a common occurrence as most of us can attest to, and therefore not really a big deal. I find it hard to believe that an arrested person would not immediately advise some-one in authority and ask for advice. What would Richards' agent have advised him at that time?

Additionally, my question has been and continues to be, how did Dean Lombardi find out about the incident some almost 2 weeks later? I would be completely pissed as a Canadian citizen, if it came out that it was through the RCMP and/or the Canadian Border Services people. Also, why didn't his agent advise the Kings of the incident shortly thereafter, assuming his agent knew?

Of course, all this implies that people are basically smart and do the right things in all circumstances.

I'll leave the notification part of your comment alone, given the lack of any clarity in these forums as to what obligation Mike Richards had in informing anyone of what happened.As for the common occurrence part, having border agents delay you while they search your person and belongings may be common, but having them arrest you after they find something illegal isn't. Yes, I said arrest.

Richards was arrested on June 17 in Emerson, MB at about 2 p.m., RCMP constable Paul Human told TSN
from
http://www.tsn.ca/richards-charged-with-illegal-possession-of-a-controlled-substance-1.351639

As far as how Dean Lombardi could have found out about what happened, it doesn't require some nefarious method. Perhaps a reporter with knowledge of what had transpired, sought information from Dean Lombardi about how those events were affecting the possibility of a Mike Richards trade. The reporter, who had learned of Mike Richards border incident through their sources, had assumed Dean Lombardi knew. He didn't.

 

[moosehead81]

As for the common occurrence part, having border agents delay you while they search your person and belongings may be common, but having them arrest you after they find something illegal isn't. Yes, I said arrest.

I guess you missed my point or I didn't explain myself well. My point was I find it hard to believe that, having been arrested, Mike Richards would not have notified his agent and, if so, what were the circumstances beyond that leading to Dean Lombardi finding out about it 12 days later apparently at the draft table. And if those circumstances lead back to the CBS Agency or the RCMP, even if it was "just" a report to a media type, then I'd be pissed off. I'm not denying that he was arrested at the time of the incident.

 

[Captain Mittens*]

I guess you missed my point or I didn't explain myself well. My point was I find it hard to believe that, having been arrested, Mike Richards would not have notified his agent and, if so, what were the circumstances beyond that leading to Dean Lombardi finding out about it 12 days later apparently at the draft table. And if those circumstances lead back to the CBS Agency or the RCMP, even if it was "just" a report to a media type, then I'd be pissed off. I'm not denying that he was arrested at the time of the incident.

I am trying to say this without sounding libelous.
But there is a possibility that his agent knew and he thought it was a good idea to roll the dice and not inform them since it was so close to the buyout date.

This part is strictly a joke*

They would have pulled it off of it wasn't for those meddling kids.

 

[HookKing]

I am trying to say this without sounding libelous.
But there is a possibility that his agent knew and he thought it was a good idea to roll the dice and not inform them since it was so close to the buyout date.

This part is strictly a joke*

They would have pulled it off of it wasn't for those meddling kids.

It seems most logical that DL found out from Richards' agent if the Kings contacted the agent to let him know MR might be getting traded. I'm not buying all the "some reporter told Dean" stuff out there. If this is what happened MR will likely be in deep do-do with the league.

 

[Stimpythecat]

I think there is a very good possibility that an entry ban and/or visa revocation is the issue.

We are talking about a drug related arrest involving a controlled substance at the border. Anyone that thinks this would have no affect on ability to enter or work in the US is not thinking it through.

If Richards can't get into the US, then the whole CBA argument is moot.

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/us-deny-entry-inadmissibility-reasons-29715.html

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclope...ssibility-available-green-card-applicant.html

 

[Ron*]

Try telling all the morons on the main board that.

 

[Captain Mittens*]

It seems most logical that DL found out from Richards' agent if the Kings contacted the agent to let him know MR might be getting traded. I'm not buying all the "some reporter told Dean" stuff out there. If this is what happened MR will likely be in deep do-do with the league.

There is a rumor out there that Dl learned about it from a media member on the draft floor.

 

[Reclamation Project]

Try telling all the morons on the main board that.

 

[Ron*]

It seems most logical that DL found out from Richards' agent if the Kings contacted the agent to let him know MR might be getting traded. I'm not buying all the "some reporter told Dean" stuff out there. If this is what happened MR will likely be in deep do-do with the league.

There is a rumor out there that Dl learned about it from a media member on the draft floor.

Who says Richards told his agent?

I think the agent was in the dark too, because he has a fiduciary responsibility to inform the league of Richards' predicament.

 

[HookKing]

There is a rumor out there that Dl learned about it from a media member on the draft floor.

Interesting, so according to the main board guys that means DL is in trouble for not closing his ears!

 

[kingsfan]

It seems most logical that DL found out from Richards' agent if the Kings contacted the agent to let him know MR might be getting traded. I'm not buying all the "some reporter told Dean" stuff out there. If this is what happened MR will likely be in deep do-do with the league.

Why would he be in deep do-do with the league? His contract is not with the league, it is with the Kings. He didn't breach any league rule that I know of, he (allegedly) breach a part of his contract with the Kings.

 

[HookKing]

Why would he be in deep do-do with the league? His contract is not with the league, it is with the Kings. He didn't breach any league rule that I know of, he (allegedly) breach a part of his contract with the Kings.

He is required to report a drug arrest to the league. See the SABH.