TSN: Mike Babcock free to talk to other teams

[Richiebottles]

So in the five years it takes for Scherbak and company to produce as premium scorers, our current core will be in their 30s and Markov will be retired. This also assumes all of them will have a significant impact. If they don't, our supposedly seven year competitive team won't be anything but perpetual mediocrity by then. Every former cup winner has made significant trades to bolster their roster.

I think it is a stupid way to build a team.

Look at Chicago/LA/Boston... all previous cup winners.

How many of them burned through the farm to be cup contenders for 2 years ?

We are good now and will be in the future. I don't want some Rangers style team that is good for 2 years and has 0 prospects to rely on and ultimately end up coming short because the Ducks/Hawks built the right way and will be back multiple years after this year.

 

[Bryson]

I think it is a stupid way to build a team.

Look at Chicago/LA/Boston... all previous cup winners.

How many of them burned through the farm to be cup contenders for 2 years ?

We are good now and will be in the future. I don't want some Rangers style team that is good for 2 years and has 0 prospects to rely on and ultimately end up coming short because the Ducks/Hawks built the right way and will be back multiple years after this year.

Are you really using Chicago and LA as examples of how NOT to build a team? Two teams that have each won the stanley cup twice in recent years? My ****ing God I would take that any day pf the week over what we have now. At the rate we are going it might be another twenty years before the habs win another stanley cup. Both teams have made significant transactions to bolster their club but keep digging your hole deeper.

Who says NYR are only good for two years? They made it to the ECF back to back and are one step closer to making it to the SCF with a chance to win the SC. But the montreal canadiens are better than all these teams that's what your saying? We are going to win the SC four times in the next ten years just like the good old days lmao !

One of the surefire ways to lose at poker is to use a strategy of only going in when you have pocket aces and risk losing as you see your stash of chips whittle away just from the blinds. There is no such thing as a dynasty in this day and age of parity in the NHL. The best way to win is to make a push, then re-tool and reload etc... Eventually you need to hedge your bets and go all in. It's time for Marc Bergevin to stop wading in the kiddy pool and take a dive in the big pool along with the rest of the grown ups.

 

[DAChampion]

Los Angeles burned through their farm.

Schenn, Simmonds, Johnson, 1st, Teubert, etc all traded.

 

[Bryson]

Los Angeles burned through their farm.

Schenn, Simmonds, Johnson, 1st, Teubert, etc all traded.

And Los Angeles won the SC nearly back to back what's your point?

Lombardi > Bargainbin. Agree? Disagree?

The fact that LA had all of those extra pieces to trade speaks volumes for their club. For a team that has the best head scout in the game according to habs fans and two GMs that preached building through the draft we pretty much have dick all in our farm. So much so that we weren't even able to bolster our 4th line with our prospects we had to give up draft picks to acquire 4th liners lmao.

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

I think it is a stupid way to build a team.

Look at Chicago/LA/Boston... all previous cup winners.

How many of them burned through the farm to be cup contenders for 2 years ?

We are good now and will be in the future. I don't want some Rangers style team that is good for 2 years and has 0 prospects to rely on and ultimately end up coming short because the Ducks/Hawks built the right way and will be back multiple years after this year.

Striking out at the draft in 06, 08, & 09 really hurt us from having the supporting cast for our core to be true contender now (and of course trading McD)

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

Los Angeles burned through their farm.

Schenn, Simmonds, Johnson, 1st, Teubert, etc all traded.

2 cups

The lengths people will go to protect MT/MB. Sickening.

 

[sharks9]

And Los Angeles won the SC nearly back to back what's your point?

Lombardi > Bargainbin. Agree? Disagree?

The fact that LA had all of those extra pieces to trade speaks volumes for their club. For a team that has the best head scout in the game according to habs fans and two GMs that preached building through the draft we pretty much have dick all in our farm. So much so that we weren't even able to bolster our 4th line with our prospects we had to give up draft picks to acquire 4th liners lmao.

What are you talking about? You honestly would have wanted Andrighetto or Hudon to be called up the play on the 4th line instead of getting a solid 4th liner like Torrey Mitchell for a 7th round pick?

Bergevin made smart moves getting depth players for cheap while allowing our prospects to continue to develop in Hamilton.

 

[Mike8]

Los Angeles burned through their farm.

Schenn, Simmonds, Johnson, 1st, Teubert, etc all traded.

The same farm that has provided Toffoli, Pearson, Andreoff, Nolan, Clifford, King, Muzzin, Jones and Voynov over the past 4 years? They've been fine in restocking.

 

[Habsawce]

The same farm that has provided Toffoli, Pearson, Andreoff, Nolan, Clifford, King, Muzzin, Jones and Voynov over the past 4 years? They've been fine in restocking.

tbf they had a lot of picks over quite a few years while Montreal was middling around the playoff bubble.

 

[sharks9]

tbf they had a lot of picks over quite a few years while Montreal was middling around the playoff bubble.

Exactly. Finishing bottom-5 for 3 straight years helped them stock their prospect pool which allowed them to trade prospects away when they became a contender.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

tbf they had a lot of picks over quite a few years while Montreal was middling around the playoff bubble.

Those players would have done so well in the Habs system. The diff between the Kings and the Habs isn't the number of picks or how high they are. It has to do with the development system. Habs development is not good. Kings have a great system.

They traded away some prospects/picks but they were able to get 2 cups doing that and last time I checked that's the goal of any team inprofessional sports. Win it all.

 

[Smokey Thompson]

tbf they had a lot of picks over quite a few years while Montreal was middling around the playoff bubble.

They also didn't dick around with Kopitar. They put him at centre and let him develop there regardless of whether they were winning or losing. They traded their non-core guys to build one of the best and deepest cores in the league. I kind of wish Bergevin would have been more aggressive when he took over the team. He could've shed a lot of dead weight and picked up a few picks in the deep 2013 draft.

 

[GoodKiwi]

I think it is a stupid way to build a team.

Look at Chicago/LA/Boston... all previous cup winners.

How many of them burned through the farm to be cup contenders for 2 years ?

We are good now and will be in the future. I don't want some Rangers style team that is good for 2 years and has 0 prospects to rely on and ultimately end up coming short because the Ducks/Hawks built the right way and will be back multiple years after this year.

If anything NYR is the example of how to built a contender.

Just off the top of my head...Kreider, Hayes, Fast, Zucarello, Stephan, Hagelin, Miller, McDonagh, Staal, Girardi, Lundqvist, Talbot...where do you think those players came from?

As far as them being good for two years. No team in the East has won as many playoff series over the last four year span as them.

 

[Habsawce]

Those players would have done so well in the Habs system. The diff between the Kings and the Habs isn't the number of picks or how high they are. It has to do with the development system. Habs development is not good. Kings have a great system.

They traded away some prospects/picks but they were able to get 2 cups doing that and last time I checked that's the goal of any team inprofessional sports. Win it all.

I thought they had a good development system before Boucher left and Bergevin took over. They had the most drafted players playing in the NHL at one point. People look at home run picks that develop out of nowhere, and Subban is that guy. He was taken 43rd overall, and was never expected to be anything. He went to Hamilton and Guy Boucher turned his game around.

Most people think he did it all on his own though through Jacques Martin giving him a chance in 2010, but it started before that in Hamilton.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

I think it is a stupid way to build a team.

Look at Chicago/LA/Boston... all previous cup winners.

How many of them burned through the farm to be cup contenders for 2 years ?

We are good now and will be in the future. I don't want some Rangers style team that is good for 2 years and has 0 prospects to rely on and ultimately end up coming short because the Ducks/Hawks built the right way and will be back multiple years after this year.

Then we will forever be spinning our wheel. Case in point, Beaulieu is just to make an impact while Markov's starting to show his age. Chicago and LA won two cups with the additions they made, and LA is only hurting now due to Richards falling off a cliff far earlier than expected.

Trading Scherbak to get someone like JVR (26) or Kessel (28) is not going to torpedo our future.

 

[GoodKiwi]

Then we will forever be spinning our wheel. Case in point, Beaulieu is just to make an impact while Markov's starting to show his age. Chicago and LA won two cups with the additions they made, and LA is only hurting now due to Richards falling off a cliff far earlier than expected.

Trading Scherbak to get someone like JVR (26) or Kessel (28) is not going to torpedo our future.

Exactly. You need to make that key trade(s) to push yourself over the top and become a top contender. Most teams have done it this way and were successful doing it.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

I thought they had a good development system before Boucher left and Bergevin took over. They had the most drafted players playing in the NHL at one point. People look at home run picks that develop out of nowhere, and Subban is that guy. He was taken 43rd overall, and was never expected to be anything. He went to Hamilton and Guy Boucher turned his game around.

Most people think he did it all on his own though through Jacques Martin giving him a chance in 2010, but it started before that in Hamilton.

Yea, Subban played a season in the minors but I think he was going to be a star no matter what. I'm all for players staying in the minors and honing their crafts. There was no need to keep Galchenyuk with the team if he was going to be played on the wing and sit behind DD. Terrible development.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Yea, Subban played a season in the minors but I think he was going to be a star no matter what. I'm all for players staying in the minors and honing their crafts. There was no need to keep Galchenyuk with the team if he was going to be played on the wing and sit behind DD. Terrible development.

Should have been sent down to the AHL after the lock-out season to develop as a centre.

 

[t0ny]

2 cups

The lengths people will go to protect MT/MB. Sickening.

Yep... he won the first in his 6th season. MB is 3 years in.

So how many of us would fire MT for Babcock ? poll?

 

[Cole Caulifield]

Then we will forever be spinning our wheel. Case in point, Beaulieu is just to make an impact while Markov's starting to show his age. Chicago and LA won two cups with the additions they made, and LA is only hurting now due to Richards falling off a cliff far earlier than expected.

Trading Scherbak to get someone like JVR (26) or Kessel (28) is not going to torpedo our future.

But were JVR and Kessel available for trade for just Scherbak ? It takes two to tango. It's easy to say let's trade Sherbak for an established 30-40 goals scorer but I don't think there will be many takers.

This summer may be the first time that some of these guys are really available with the hawks having to shed 10M, pens possibly trading Malkin (although I doubt it), and Toronto trading Phaneuf and Kessel. But would Toronto ask us to shell an extra in a trade for Kessel/JVR because we're divisional rivals? Is JVR even available ?

 

[Richiebottles]

Are you really using Chicago and LA as examples of how NOT to build a team? Two teams that have each won the stanley cup twice in recent years? My ****ing God I would take that any day pf the week over what we have now. At the rate we are going it might be another twenty years before the habs win another stanley cup. Both teams have made significant transactions to bolster their club but keep digging your hole deeper.

Who says NYR are only good for two years? They made it to the ECF back to back and are one step closer to making it to the SCF with a chance to win the SC. But the montreal canadiens are better than all these teams that's what your saying? We are going to win the SC four times in the next ten years just like the good old days lmao !

One of the surefire ways to lose at poker is to use a strategy of only going in when you have pocket aces and risk losing as you see your stash of chips whittle away just from the blinds. There is no such thing as a dynasty in this day and age of parity in the NHL. The best way to win is to make a push, then re-tool and reload etc... Eventually you need to hedge your bets and go all in. It's time for Marc Bergevin to stop wading in the kiddy pool and take a dive in the big pool along with the rest of the grown ups.

If anything NYR is the example of how to built a contender.

Just off the top of my head...Kreider, Hayes, Fast, Zucarello, Stephan, Hagelin, Miller, McDonagh, Staal, Girardi, Lundqvist, Talbot...where do you think those players came from?

As far as them being good for two years. No team in the East has won as many playoff series over the last four year span as them.

Then we will forever be spinning our wheel. Case in point, Beaulieu is just to make an impact while Markov's starting to show his age. Chicago and LA won two cups with the additions they made, and LA is only hurting now due to Richards falling off a cliff far earlier than expected.

Trading Scherbak to get someone like JVR (26) or Kessel (28) is not going to torpedo our future.

Didn't state my opinion properly.

I think that LA/Boston/Chicago built through the draft and did it well.

I was saying that we shouldn't go the NYR model and try to buy ourself a Stanley cup and have no prospects to show in 2 + years. MB is building a team that will contend for a long time. NYR to me is a team that will always come up short against the giants of the West and they have 0 influx of youth.

Sather is a meh GM at best.

 

[Richiebottles]

And Los Angeles won the SC nearly back to back what's your point?

Lombardi > Bargainbin. Agree? Disagree?

The fact that LA had all of those extra pieces to trade speaks volumes for their club. For a team that has the best head scout in the game according to habs fans and two GMs that preached building through the draft we pretty much have dick all in our farm. So much so that we weren't even able to bolster our 4th line with our prospects we had to give up draft picks to acquire 4th liners lmao.

Because you really think that Ghetto and Hudon were fit for the fourth line ?

You need guys who are smart on D down there. It is common sense. We gave up peanuts for the likes of Petry, Mitchell and Flynn.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

But were JVR and Kessel available for trade for just Scherbak ? It takes two to tango. It's easy to say let's trade Sherbak for an established 30-40 goals scorer but I don't think there will be many takers.

This summer may be the first time that some of these guys are really available with the hawks having to shed 10M, pens possibly trading Malkin (although I doubt it), and Toronto trading Phaneuf and Kessel. But would Toronto ask us to shell an extra in a trade for Kessel/JVR because we're divisional rivals? Is JVR even available ?

I knew I should have put pluses next Scherbak. Alas...

He would be a part of a package that may include DLR, our 1st and PAP, which has been floated around for either of the aforementioned two. I have no issues making that type of trade because we still have Hudon and McCarron left, alongside other good prospects.

 

[Runner77]

tbf they had a lot of picks over quite a few years while Montreal was middling around the playoff bubble.

Can't underscore enough how the Habs constantly drafting late and/or having lost picks on account of previous admin. shortcomings having had a significant impact.

 

[24Cups]

Habs development is not good. Kings have a great system.

Hard to disagree with this.

I cringed more with MB's support of Lefebvre than Therrien. For many years we had Pierre Mondou in charge of player development. He had no experience and brought little to the position. A couple of years ago Bergevin appointed Martin Lapointe and Patrice "DumbDumb" Brisebois. I don't know about Lapointe other than a definite lack of experience, but it didn't take a genius to know that Brisebois was, well, not a genius either.

It's not rocket science, model player development after teams that are good at it. Detroit and Los Angeles would be a start.