Microsoft Xbox Discussion - It is my nature

[Jussi]

$220 for a memory card is absolutely ridiculous

Over here, that's pretty much in the range of what external 1TB SSDs cost.

 

[Hammettf2b]

Over here, that's pretty much in the range of what external 1TB SSDs cost.

thats pretty ridiculous too

 

[JaegerDice]

thats pretty ridiculous too

Which is why Sony is having such a problem keeping the price of the PS5 down. Their proprietary SSD is probably at least 50% more expensive than that, maybe more.

 

[Hammettf2b]

Which is why Sony is having such a problem keeping the price of the PS5 down. Their proprietary SSD is probably at least 50% more expensive than that, maybe more.

Where did you hear that?

 

[JaegerDice]

Where did you hear that?

It's my estimate. A 1TB SSD can range from 100-250 depending on speed.

Sony's is supposedly, by their own proclamations and developer confirmation, the fastest SSD ever made to date (at least for consumer products). So, obviously, that's going to be more expensive than your standard SSDs off the shelves.

Further, they're proprietary. There's no bulk discount like a console maker would typically get on the parts they're building their console with. This is the same reason the PS3 was so expensive. Whereas Microsoft was basically buying 100s of 1000s of parts at large bulk discounts, the Cell CPU production was costing Sony a ton, cause they needed completely new production pipelines set up.

The PS4 likewise, was less expensive than the Xbox One in large part because the parts it was using were off-the-shelve, whereas the Xbox One was designed for all the TV bullshit, and to be able to call up multiple apps running in parallel on the side of the screen, and to swap between TV and games, yada yada. Instead of just a ton of fast ram, it had two different kinds of ram to play with. Basically the more particular and complex your console is, the more expensive it will inevitably be.

Sony is already compromising on size to keep the price down, offering only 825GB rather than the full TB.

Nothing else in the PS5 is particularly expensive. In fact, if you were to take the hard drives out of the equation, the PS5 would probably be cheaper to produce than the Xbox Series X, since it's actually less powerful from a raw output standpoint. The fact that Sony will probably have to lose money on each console sold in order to hit the 499 price point speaks to how expensive the production of this proprietary SSD is.

 

[Hammettf2b]

It's my estimate. A 1TB SSD can range from 100-250 depending on speed.

Sony's is supposedly, by their own proclamations and developer confirmation, the fastest SSD ever made to date (at least for consumer products). So, obviously, that's going to be more expensive than your standard SSDs off the shelves.

Further, they're proprietary. There's no bulk discount like a console maker would typically get on the parts they're building their console with. This is the same reason the PS3 was so expensive. Whereas Microsoft was basically buying 100s of 1000s of parts at large bulk discounts, the Cell CPU production was costing Sony a ton, cause they needed completely new production pipelines set up.

The PS4 likewise, was less expensive than the Xbox One in large part because the parts it was using were off-the-shelve, whereas the Xbox One was designed for all the TV bullshit, and to be able to call up multiple apps running in parallel on the side of the screen, and to swap between TV and games, yada yada. Instead of just a ton of fast ram, it had two different kinds of ram to play with. Basically the more particular and complex your console is, the more expensive it will inevitably be.

Sony is already compromising on size to keep the price down, offering only 825GB rather than the full TB.

Nothing else in the PS5 is particularly expensive. In fact, if you were to take the hard drives out of the equation, the PS5 would probably be cheaper to produce than the Xbox Series X, since it's actually less powerful from a raw output standpoint. The fact that Sony will probably have to lose money on each console sold in order to hit the 499 price point speaks to how expensive the production of this proprietary SSD is.

I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers but its already been reported that the production cost of the PS5 is $450. Not to mention they are saving money by producing and assembling in house.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

More storage is where we’ll all get screwed next gen. I bought my 2 TB external for the XB1 after launch for like $100. Not gonna be the same this time around.

 

[Knave]

More storage is where we’ll all get screwed next gen. I bought my 2 TB external for the XB1 after launch for like $100. Not gonna be the same this time around.

That was the first thing I noticed when I picked up an Xbox One a couple years ago. I wasn't in danger of running out of space because I only installed and played a handful of games (NHL 20, Forza Horizon, Assassin's Creed Odyssey) but my biggest issue was 1) always having to update 2) running out of space if I wanted a few big titles with multiplayer and say half a dozen RPGs or single player games. Games were taking up 20-30 or even more GB. It's insane.

And what if we get Flight Simulator 2020 on Xbox Series X? We're talking nearly 1/10th of your hard drive - maybe even more - gone.

The only reason I didn't run out of space on xbox one is because I got it so late and I've only been playing a few games on it. If Xbox Series X is supposed to last as long as Xbox One I can definitely see myself filling up 1TB over time.

 

[JaegerDice]

I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers but its already been reported that the production cost of the PS5 is $450. Not to mention they are saving money by producing and assembling in house.

Right. And they still had to cut 125GB off the SSD. How much does that cost if it's the full 1TB to compare to the $210 TB screenshotted in this thread?

Considering the CPU, GPU and ram are all cheaper than the Xbox Series X due to being less powerful, they're cutting costs on production by doing things in house AND by cutting space on the SSD, where do you think all the cost is coming from if they're winding up at $450 despite all those savings?

 

[Hammettf2b]

Right. And they still had to cut 125GB off the SSD. How much does that cost if it's the full 1TB to compare to the $210 TB screenshotted in this thread?

Considering the CPU, GPU and ram are all cheaper than the Xbox Series X due to being less powerful, they're cutting costs on production by doing things in house AND by cutting space on the SSD, where do you think all the cost is coming from if they're winding up at $450 despite all those savings?

I'm still not understanding how this means Sony is having trouble keeping the price of the PS5 down? Rumors were Sony was content with a $499 price point even at their $450 production cost.

 

[JaegerDice]

I'm still not understanding how this means Sony is having trouble keeping the price of the PS5 down? Rumors were Sony was content with a $499 price point even at their $450 production cost.

They're offering a less powerful console with less storage space for the same price as the competition, and a $50 profit margin that will be sliced lower by retailer share (let alone promotions).

You don't think those compromises on power and space are being made in the name of price? If not, why not just match the Xbox Series X in CPU, GPU and RAM?

 

[Hammettf2b]

They're offering a less powerful console with less storage space for the same price as the competition, and a $50 profit margin that will be sliced lower by retailer share (let alone promotions).

You don't think those compromises on power and space are being made in the name of price? If not, why not just match the Xbox Series X in CPU, GPU and RAM?

I realize that, but that doesn't mean they are having trouble keeping the price down. From everything I'm reading, they made those decisions fully knowing what price point they could sell at. It doesn't sound like they are having any trouble at all tbh.

 

[JaegerDice]

I realize that, but that doesn't mean they are having trouble keeping the price down. From everything I'm reading, they made those decisions fully knowing what price point they could sell at. It doesn't sound like they are having any trouble at all tbh.

Oh, I see.

Yes, once they decided to make those compromises, I don't think they're having trouble meeting the price.

I was speaking to the necessity of those compromises to ship a competitively priced product.

 

[Hammettf2b]

Oh, I see.

Yes, once they decided to make those compromises, I don't think they're having trouble meeting the price.

I was speaking to the necessity of those compromises to ship a competitively priced product.

Ya, everything that I'm reading is they don't want to make the same mistake they did with the PS3. They know they need to keep the price down and they chose their superior SSD over a little more power to help keep prices down.

 

[Hammettf2b]

Jeff Grubb: at the start, Microsoft will sell both of its consoles “in the negative”, as well as Sony - Nintendo Smash- Nintendo switch the best selling game console

No surprise here as the push for digital will help make up for it.

 

[aleshemsky83]

Which is why Sony is having such a problem keeping the price of the PS5 down. Their proprietary SSD is probably at least 50% more expensive than that, maybe more.

Says who? It's likely just a PCiE gen 4 SSD with some extra hardware for compression.

In fact, Sony has already said that non proprietary M.2 SSDs will be compatible with the ps5 as long as they match the minimum specs they set.

 

[S E P H]

Wait, what Xbox is this now? And is it supposed to look like a subwoofer or something?

 

[Jussi]

Wait, what Xbox is this now? And is it supposed to look like a subwoofer or something?

I don't know, maybe it's been talked about earlier in the thread...

 

[S E P H]

I don't know, maybe it's been talked about earlier in the thread...

Read the past two pages, don't got a clue what it is.

Xbox series X is almost definitely going to be $500 at least.

I think it was confirmed by Xbox earlier today that it's going to be 499. Solid price for the new system, but they know they're going to probably make more money on external drives anyway...so you could end up paying 600 bucks if you play a lot of games and don't do Gamepass.

 

[x Tame Impala]

so you could end up paying 600 bucks if you play a lot of games and don't do Gamepass.

And if you do get gamepass, they’ve got most people on the hook for $180/year. Multiply that by however many years you’ll have it and you’ll have given them potentially over $1000 just in gamepass.

Smart decision by Microsoft here. The subscription service is going to be a killer for them.

 

[Jussi]

Read the past two pages, don't got a clue what it is.

I think it was confirmed by Xbox earlier today that it's going to be 499. Solid price for the new system, but they know they're going to probably make more money on external drives anyway...so you could end up paying 600 bucks if you play a lot of games and don't do Gamepass.

Have you tried Google?

 

[GreytWun]

And if you do get gamepass, they’ve got most people on the hook for $180/year. Multiply that by however many years you’ll have it and you’ll have given them potentially over $1000 just in gamepass.

Smart decision by Microsoft here. The subscription service is going to be a killer for them.

Yep. This is a very savvy business move by them and this is why they don’t need to be concerned with the hardware sales. They can tap in the PC market as well which is huge.

In the lifetime of the console MS could make over $1000 off each user subscribed to gamepass.

 

[flyingkiwi]

Dang both back in NZ and here in France that Series S launch price is about the same as a Switch... dunno what console that says more about though.

 

[FLYERSFAN18]

And if you do get gamepass, they’ve got most people on the hook for $180/year. Multiply that by however many years you’ll have it and you’ll have given them potentially over $1000 just in gamepass.

Smart decision by Microsoft here. The subscription service is going to be a killer for them.

The $180 also includes Xbox Live Gold which most people get anyway so they can play online. So it’s really like $120 a year when you think about it. So basically if you get to play 2 games a year on Game Pass that you would normally purchase you would break even. Assuming you don’t care about “owning” every game you play

 

[aleshemsky83]

Digital Foundry made an interesting point. The Series X has significantly less VRAM than the One X, which could mean backwards compatibility is going to be the One S versions. I could see this being true for Red Dead Redemption, which is native 4k on the One X