OT: Michigan Sports Thread: The 1-3 Edition

[Ed Ned and Leddy]

I'm interested in seeing our run offense this year, could be a fun watch.

I think you saw Holmes really employing a "BPA" strategy with maybe a slight emphasis on guys in the trenches. Makes sense to me. This year I think is primarily an evaluation year for Holmes, seeing who works with the new coaching staff and who doesn't, riding out some poor contracts, etc.

I don't think this was the year to address our biggest needs, we're not ready to bounce right into contention. From that perspective I definitely like Holmes' strategy. Won't pretend I've seen all these kids play of course, but I like the strategy and priority on upside and athleticism.

 

[Hen Kolland]

I'm interested in seeing our run offense this year, could be a fun watch.

I think you saw Holmes really employing a "BPA" strategy with maybe a slight emphasis on guys in the trenches. Makes sense to me. This year I think is primarily an evaluation year for Holmes, seeing who works with the new coaching staff and who doesn't, riding out some poor contracts, etc.

I don't think this was the year to address our biggest needs, we're not ready to bounce right into contention. From that perspective I definitely like Holmes' strategy. Won't pretend I've seen all these kids play of course, but I like the strategy and priority on upside and athleticism.

But could you not argue that this draft is very similar to the situation the Wings are in? How can you judge a young player offensively if the defense is in a collapse and preventative mindset. The young forwards spend so much time doing things that aren’t being offensive.

Well I can’t assess Okudah’s ability when my line is incapable of applying anything that resembles pressure. The defensive line sets the tone. It frees up the linebackers to make plays whether stuffing the run, getting to the QB, or even being able to drop in coverage because the line can create enough pressure with a 4 man rush. It gives the secondary the upper hand because they don’t have to stick with their man for 2-3x as long as they should have to. And on and on.

I can absolutely argue that we did address our biggest needs. I think it’s easier for a O line to make a weaker offense look better than a good offense can overcome a weak line. And a D line can make a defense better more so than the secondary and linebackers can overcome a weak D line.

 

[guinness]

The Tigers are in a league of their own.

 

[ricky0034]

The Tigers are in a league of their own.

that's the real reason the Wings aren't as bad this year

runs afoul of some cosmic rule preventing two teams that bad in a city the same year

 

[jaster]

The Tigers are in a league of their own.

Elijah Green! Come on down!

 

[BSHH]

The Tigers are in a league of their own.

It must have become even worse, since the Tigers had only two hits and only one walk while losing 0:2 to the Yankees right now. The worst batting average belongs to their DH, by the way...

Gruß,
BSHH

 

[guinness]

It must have become even worse, since the Tigers had only two hits and only one walk while losing 0:2 to the Yankees right now. The worst batting average belongs to their DH, by the way...

Gruß,
BSHH

Ureña was good though, but this comment on Bless you boys:

The Detroit Tigers have established a franchise record and tied the all-time American League mark with their 5th game of the season with zero runs, no extra-base-hits, and at least 10 strikeouts. They are just one game shy of the all-time major league mark of 6 with 133 games remaining.

Holy suckage Batman, we're barely into May.

The SP aren't going to continue to have decent to good games, they'll have their off days too, although some could be decent trade bait.

But then again, what would the team realistically get back in return? Yeah, more 'prospects'. Year 'y' of a 'x' year rebuild, and the current prospects will be in their mid careers.

This team could be futile to epic proportions. Honestly, would an expansion team be this lackluster on offense?

 

[Winger98]

Some guys (schoop) are just viciously underperforming, but this team is just what it is. I've posted it elsewhere but outside of miggy this team is spending $50m on the other 25 guys on its payroll. Hope Tork and Green have good years in the minors and that Mize/Skubel are looking good by the end of the season. Boyd is looking good and Candelario seems to have picked up where last season left off. Also, Fulmer looks to be regaining form slow but sure.

At some point Ilitch might just have to pry his wallet open.

It must have become even worse, since the Tigers had only two hits and only one walk while losing 0:2 to the Yankees right now. The worst batting average belongs to their DH, by the way...

Gruß,
BSHH

Miggy is just done.

Ureña was good though, but this comment on Bless you boys:

Holy suckage Batman, we're barely into May.

The SP aren't going to continue to have decent to good games, they'll have their off days too, although some could be decent trade bait.

But then again, what would the team realistically get back in return? Yeah, more 'prospects'. Year 'y' of a 'x' year rebuild, and the current prospects will be in their mid careers.

This team could be futile to epic proportions. Honestly, would an expansion team be this lackluster on offense?

yeah, not a big fan of dealing for more prospects unless we get something premium back, but it also depends how some of these guys look as the year goes on. If Mize and Skubel find their legs, Boyd continues to look good, Fulmer continues to improve, we see faedo and manning continue doing well in the minors...we should probably start looking to add some bats at some point. If none of the kids improve as the year goes on, though, I have to think there is going to be some pressure to move a guy like Boyd.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Did the White Sox really rebuild after the Tigers? If so that’s a pretty bad look for Avila

 

[RabidBadger]

Did the White Sox really rebuild after the Tigers? If so that’s a pretty bad look for Avila

I'd be curious to know where the Sox farm system stood at the time of their rebuild. As much as some people love "Dealing Dave" Dumbrowski, he sank the prospect pool to the bottom and had nothing to show for it(even with Big I's loose purse-strings). I'm also curious to know if anyone started with a bottom 5 prospect pool at the start of a rebuild and became prominent within a few years.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

I'd be curious to know where the Sox farm system stood at the time of their rebuild. As much as some people love "Dealing Dave" Dumbrowski, he sank the prospect pool to the bottom and had nothing to show for it(even with Big I's loose purse-strings). I'm also curious to know if anyone started with a bottom 5 prospect pool at the start of a rebuild and became prominent within a few years.

Would be interesting. But if they already had a good farm system I’m not sure it would be a rebuild more like a reload.

 

[jaster]

White Sox started rebuilding after the Tigers, yes. And they have lapped the Tigers in the rebuild, yes. Few reasons....

- The South Siders had a decent farm system when their rebuild started (mainly because of the last bullet point), while the Tigers had one that was completely depleted: advantage White Sox.
- Chicago has gotten a couple of great international signings, including before their rebuild technically started (Abreu, Robert), while Detroit has found no one of note: advantage White Sox.
- Detroit hasn't done poorly drafting in the 1st round, but the White Sox 1st rounders so far have made a quicker impact (Madrigal, Vaughan), and their later 1st rounders from before their rebuild started have turned into actual major leaguers (Anderson, Rodon): advantage White Sox.
- Most of all, the White Sox have done a way better job than the Tigers of accumulating young talent via trades, mainly in their very deliberate and great selloff of 2016 (Giolito, Dunning, Moncada, Kopech, Jimenez, Cease): advantage White Sox.

All this after the White Sox in 2016 traded for James Shields, who never really did anything for them in a push for the playoffs. The main prospect they gave up (granted he was a wild card at the time)? Fernando Tatis Jr. Yowza.

The White Sox have done a better job both positioning themselves for a rebuild, and executing. The Tigers have done a better job with international signings recently, but they were horrible at it for many years, and they've failed to acquire effective talent in the big trades they made (hell, altogether the Tigers have sold off better talent than the White Sox in recent years, and they have much less to show for it).

All the Tigers have to hang their hat on are their recent 1st rounders, which are certainly a very good bunch, and there will be more of them next few years, but that's only about 1/3 of the equation. The other 2/3 (international signings and trades) has been a big fat fail.

 

[Ricelund]

Excellent post, @jaster.

Avila’s “rebuild” is a joke. There is no excuse for it. They’re in year five and on pace for 117 losses. There’s nothing to show for the “rebuild” beyond the top picks.

Obviously this comes down to Ilitch. Avila should never have been extended.

 

[jaster]

Excellent post, @jaster.

Avila’s “rebuild” is a joke. There is no excuse for it. They’re in year five and on pace for 117 losses. There’s nothing to show for the “rebuild” beyond the top picks.

Obviously this comes down to Ilitch. Avila should never have been extended.

Yep. I'm certainly not an Avila fan, so don't take this next part as a defense of him. But man, it seems pretty clear that Dombrowski's tenure, for whatever successes anyone wants to highlight, utterly failed at scouting, on all levels. Our draft picks were garbage, we never signed any international prospects who were any good (during or after his tenure), and we failed to identify talent in our big trades. I mean, who were the scouts for this organization all that time? Larry, Moe, and Curly? The blind versions?

 

[guinness]

I think Minnesota, KC have started their rebuild after the Tigers too.

Cleveland lost a bunch of players, and while the Central is soft…they aren’t this bad.

And yes, the scouting and drafting have also hurt the Tigers, such a crapshoot between whom never makes it out of the minors and those that become very good.

It’s odd, that for how much Mr I loved baseball, the Tigers, he liked to meddle, whereas the Wings pretty much had hockey people from the get go, I couldn’t imagine the Wings without Devellano.

 

[FabricDetails]

I have heard that at least a couple games they straight up tanked. If they are doing that they should really do a better job at hiding it.

"Injury report" for today's game between the Pistons and Magic - Two teams that are blatantly tanking.

NBA is such a joke for some teams this time of year, haha.



(Basically a report showing both teams resting their best players)

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Pistons with an important L tonight.

 

[FabricDetails]

Some paywall fun:

Lions got B's or higher for their 3rd round and above picks, eh? - Lions 2021 NFL Draft picks: Grades, fits and scouting reports for all seven additions

Overall grade of A from another author - 2021 NFL Draft grades for every team: Falcons, Lions, Vikings ace final report cards while Cowboys, Texans look iffy

Ranked 3rd overall - Ranking NFL Draft classes from 1 to 32: Eagles, Browns, Lions and Bears top Dane Brugler's list

 

[Ricelund]

The Tigers are now on pace for 119 losses.

The rebuild's going great!

 

[guinness]

The Tigers are now on pace for 119 losses.

The rebuild's going great!

But 7 runs!…that will probably be all the runs that they score against Boston this series though.

Miggy’s stat line though, 0-5, 7 LOB. That’s a platinum sombrero is it not?

 

[Konnan511]

I'm just at a loss for words. I use to cut out photos and boxscores when I was kid and tape them to my wall growing up. The way the Illitchs have handled this team the past 5-6 years is so heartbreaking from a once hardcore live or die Tiger fan.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I'm just at a loss for words. I use to cut out photos and boxscores when I was kid and tape them to my wall growing up. The way the Illitchs have handled this team the past 5-6 years is so heartbreaking from a once hardcore live or die Tiger fan.

Hopefully Chris Ilitch isn't Dollar Bill Wirtz. Not having real positive vibes. We knew rebuilds were coming for both teams, especially after Mr I died. But yeah it is hard not to look at the plight of both teams and wonder do we have an ownership group capable of leading us out of this or maybe it is time to start calling him Chris Ilitch-Ford...

 

[jkutswings]

Tigers fans are ready to wear bags on their heads, while Lions fans are reveling in league wide acclaim for their draft.

Strange days.

 

[Winger98]

Hopefully Chris Ilitch isn't Dollar Bill Wirtz. Not having real positive vibes. We knew rebuilds were coming for both teams, especially after Mr I died. But yeah it is hard not to look at the plight of both teams and wonder do we have an ownership group capable of leading us out of this or maybe it is time to start calling him Chris Ilitch-Ford...

Ilitch is living off the goodwill his dad fostered. People want to give Avila crap, I think he's making the best out of what he has to work with. He's had to stock the farm system nearly from the ground up, Ilitch isn't willing to spend to give him much help on the parent club, and there's nothing really there to deal for other pieces outside of maybe Matt Boyd.

 

[Bondurant]

NFL app alert is telling me Kerryon was waived. That is big news.