OT: Michigan Sports Thread: The 1-3 Edition

[The Zetterberg Era]

For an unknowledgeable guy like me, who has to rely on prospect rankings and evaluations, the second Draft day was not so good. ESPN's Kiper mentioned the Lions as making the most questionable picks. But I guess Sewell is good enough to win games on his own.

Gruß,
BSHH

I found that a little interesting, I know guys have fallen a little bit and that is always who Mel is pushing. But you might want to check your own company rankings for this event Mel...

Just by ESPN's own rankings

Sewell - ESPN's 5th overall talent - drafted 7th
Onwuzurike - ESPN's 42 overall talent - drafted 41
McNeill - ESPN's 70 overall talent - drafted 72
Melifonwu - ESPN's 59 overall talent - drafted 101

I mean he is free to have whatever value he wants to attach, but if you talk value and Mel just might be wildly different, but talent evaluators had these guys around these picks. I am surprised a little by the opt out theme, but the Lions need to control the line of scrimmage they don't need more flash, we have seen plenty of that over the years and I find this an exciting approach.

I'm not upset about who they've picked. I just don't see the DTs they got as being as good in the passing game as they are against the run.

It's a combination: between the completely inappropriate types of linebackers that Quinn put on the roster, and that offenses are more high tempo than ever, they eventually HAVE to add at least 1-2 guys who can cover in space on short yardage plays.

Ultimately, their board is just different than mine. And that's ok. But I see Jabril Cox (and to a lesser extent, Dylan Moses) still sitting there after 3 rounds and want them to add a skill set like that ASAP.

As for WR, I think it's arguably the least important position group of all. But I don't know that Detroit has a single NFL starter on their roster. We'll see if any of them can get enough separation to actually give Goff somebody to throw to. (Haha, unless the goal is to go 0-16 for a QB next year. Then feel free to punt on adding any help.)

I think it is a numbers versus talent deal on that with both guys. I get that though, you need to have bigger pass rush numbers. But what about his bio doesn't have pass rushing upside?

Onwuzurike is a sudden athlete with top-end speed for the position. While he finished his college career with only 7 sacks, he's consistently disruptive on tape. He has good upper-body strength and the violent hands to disengage from blocks. Onwuzurike locates the ball quickly and closes well for an interior defensive lineman. -- Steve Muench

I actually am hoping for Moses today, but that is because I can see value with him in our pick. I don't think Cox falls all the way to us, not sure I don't prefer Moses just for the speed factor you pointed out. But it is worth noting the Rams haven't had anything but dudes playing linebackers for them behind a dominant front and great secondary. They hide that level, my guess is that might be a belief that Holmes has, but I would welcome the addition. Just don't anticipate them going after a star. I would have been fine drafting Parsons for the star quality, but I get the team construct of not being enamored with the position. As much as I like linebackers, it is hard to argue that impact over a solid line.

Also the second D-tackle that I am not quite as high on still reads as an athletic upside pick with pass rushing capabilities.

McNeill is a big defensive tackle with the strength and low center of gravity to control the middle of the line of scrimmage. He flashes the ability to get off blocks and chases with good effort. He's a good athlete who played linebacker in high school, and he timed better than expected at his pro day, so he has some upside as a pass-rusher. -- Steve Muench

But I get others looking for different drafting, totally understand your point. I entered this draft with conversations with my brother saying he would believe the new regime if they drafted two fat guys with their first two picks. That he would take note, I felt kind of similar, so to watch them go after big athletes with upside and plus physicality even down to the corner was something I was desperate to see. Not for everyone, but I feel like they have lived up to a lot of the plan they were laying down a few months ago and that is good to see. I wish Holmes had more assets to play with, having the extra picks in the next few years makes that kind of fascinating for me. I have always liked LA's line play for the most part, I am intrigued by his eye for that position and a little excited.

I mean I am a Lions fan so I understand these guys are going to suck, but still, I can at least say hey this is what I would be doing with this cursed franchise in most of these spots. I hope for all of the fan-base these guys finally build a winning team.

 

[Hen Kolland]

For an unknowledgeable guy like me, who has to rely on prospect rankings and evaluations, the second Draft day was not so good. ESPN's Kiper mentioned the Lions as making the most questionable picks. But I guess Sewell is good enough to win games on his own.

Gruß,
BSHH

Looking around, there are sources who had Onwuzurike ahead of Barmore as the best DT in the draft. The one that I didn’t get was McNeill, but even he was graded out as the best interior pass rusher in the class.

Having a good defensive interior will make things easier when it comes to having to stop Aaron Jones, Dalvin Cook and David Montgomery.

 

[jkutswings]

@The Zetterberg Era Great post. And I'm completely on board with Holmes and Company starting with the big boys up front. I guess I just don't want them to carbon copy the Rams, as much as taking what worked there and adding to it. So by all means, start by controlling the line of scrimmage...but definitely sprinkle in assets in other areas, with the goal not to be Rams East, but to (eventually) be even better.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I would love to find a way to trade back and get another pick today. Might not happen, but we will see. We need help everywhere, I prefer to keep focusing on the defense at this point. I know receiver is a worry, I don't see a playoff team here, it might be something we address next year, we simply have too many holes on this roster.

It helps ease some of my WR concerns that Goff loves his TE and RB a bunch and we do have good players there. I think we will get them eventually. Fixing the lines also gives you a better view on evaluating your own talent in my opinion. Now we are not sure these guys do that, but I am really hopeful, our offensive line should have 3 elite players on it. Having push up the middle should help our edge rushers and secondary. The defense was dogshit last year, I agree with going heavily in that department.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

@The Zetterberg Era Great post. And I'm completely on board with Holmes and Company starting with the big boys up front. I guess I just don't want them to carbon copy the Rams, as much as taking what worked there and adding to it. So by all means, start by controlling the line of scrimmage...but definitely sprinkle in assets in other areas, with the goal not to be Rams East, but to (eventually) be even better.

I think the difference would be that the Rams started trading away draft capital for McVay. I get it that is where they are at, but Holmes comes from a scouting background. I just was pointing to where he had a handle in selecting and when you think on their teams line play was consistently good on both sides of the ball for a while now. Their O-line is in decline which might help us with Stafford's pick area. The Lions obviously are heavily influenced by New Orleans too in this thought process given the coaches they have brought. I mean I want to be unique, but we had to start somewhere, we need an identity. We can laugh about biting knee caps or whatever else, but they drafted big physical athletes, on the coaches to turn these guys into more, but I like the packages at least. So step one, the guy with scouting credentials as your GM seems to be hitting the draft with a plan. While I know to our posters of other teams that sounds like the most minor of victories but as a Lions fan it has rarely been that way in my life.

We have to start somewhere. After the latest we will be this debacle I get the nervousness. Every team has an identity though, ours has a ton of evolving to do. But sign me up for we are going to be a physical team that controls the trenches. We are going to need a QB again at some point and tons more skill, but getting sound fundamental football on the lines is something we have had on one of the units but rarely both since he early to mid 90s. So I am happy to see that seems to be a focus, of course I could be horribly wrong.

 

[Hen Kolland]

It helps ease some of my WR concerns that Goff loves his TE and RB a bunch and we do have good players there.

Not to mention that Campbell comes from Sean Payton’s tree and they utilized Kamara in the passing game as much as anyone. And Anthony Lynn’s offense in SD/LA utilized Gordon and Ekeler in the pass game a ton.

Picking Swift on their way out might be the best gift Quinn and Patricia could have given this offense.

 

[jkutswings]

Not to mention that Campbell comes from Sean Payton’s tree and they utilized Kamara in the passing game as much as anyone. And Anthony Lynn’s offense in SD/LA utilized Gordon and Ekeler in the pass game a ton.

Picking Swift on their way out might be the best gift Quinn and Patricia could have given this offense.

True. This could be the year that Swift and Hockenson shine in fantasy football.

 

[jkutswings]

Just found some additional scouting reports on Levi Onwuzurike and Alim McNeill, and I retract what I said about run vs pass coverage. Should be interesting to see what Detroit does on Day 3.

EDIT: And additionally, it's so refreshing to read the words of your GM and, whether you agree with a decision or not, to know that this is clearly a guy with a background in talent evaluation:

Detroit Lions GM Brad Holmes explains Day 2 picks

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Having read more on it, Kiper is just really low on the kid from Washington. Interesting position, we clearly had a first round grade on him which I trust a little more after years of watching Mel... I appreciate his work, I am not going to say he blows my doors off as a talent evaluator though over the years. There is a reason when ESPN went to pump his tires the other night they did it with a class where only one guy wasn't retired. I get he nailed the Manning, Rivers, Rothlisburger draft, but that was a really long time ago at this point.

 

[jkutswings]

Happy with the positions taken today, and fine with the player they got at WR. Barnes gets mixed reviews, but we'll see how he develops with this staff and scheme.

 

[Bondurant]

Kiper's evaluation ability is suspect. It seems he is wrong more often than right and he has a terrible track record with QB's. This video highlights some of my favorite Kiper duds (despite the click bait thumbnail).

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Happy with the positions taken today, and fine with the player they got at WR. Barnes gets mixed reviews, but we'll see how he develops with this staff and scheme.

I wasn't over the moon with either guy. It was interesting to hear Riddick get really excited for both though. Of the ESPN guys, I find more often than not that I care most about his opinion on this stuff, he did it for the Eagles with some success. So I was pleased with his take on Barnes. They fit the high motor, overly physical theme that has been happening. Kind of like Yzerman with compete level, it seems the new regime has a big value there with the Lions.

 

[Bondurant]

Took some time to dip into the receiver pool. Holmes is building the new era Lions in the trenches. Should have them positioned nicely to land big fish in free agency in '22 & '23.

 

[newfy]

@The Zetterberg Era Great post. And I'm completely on board with Holmes and Company starting with the big boys up front. I guess I just don't want them to carbon copy the Rams, as much as taking what worked there and adding to it. So by all means, start by controlling the line of scrimmage...but definitely sprinkle in assets in other areas, with the goal not to be Rams East, but to (eventually) be even better.

I know the Rams havent won the superbowl but for a Lions fan to set the goal as eing even better than the rams right now is pretty outrageous. The last 4 years theyve went 11-5, 13-3, 9-7 and 10-6 including a trip to the superbowl. If thry build the rams east we should be over the moon.

Hard to complain about any of these picks though. Build the trenches and go from there

 

[BSHH]

Amon-Ra St. Brown also holds the German citizenship and gets treated here as the next German in the NFL. That will definitely expand the (previously almost non-existant) Lions coverage in the German market, for what it's worth.

@Bondurant:
Since you asked, I just remembered that I saw the Austrian NFL telecast when I was in Vienna. Although Austria is a German-speaking country as well, they did not just use the German coverage, but had their own. So football must have a considerable fan base in Austria, too.

Gruß,
BSHH

 

[Bondurant]

Amon-Ra St. Brown also holds the German citizenship and gets treated here as the next German in the NFL. That will definitely expand the (previously almost non-existant) Lions coverage in the German market, for what it's worth.

@Bondurant:
Since you asked, I just remembered that I saw the Austrian NFL telecast when I was in Vienna. Although Austria is a German-speaking country as well, they did not just use the German coverage, but had their own. So football must have a considerable fan base in Austria, too.

Gruß,
BSHH

Military kid? I cannot find much about St. Brown and never heard of him until Lions drafted him. Sounds like there is some potential but not expected to be a star. Let him be the diamond of the draft! Lions need it.

How many games are broadcast in Germany? Imagine getting a Lions game is tough unless you can find a stream or if there is a Sunday Ticket type package for German fans. Must be kind of like fans of soccer teams with less mass appeal here in the States. Until recently I was not able to see an Ajax game legally for years. ESPN now has Eredivisie rights on a pay service that I subscribe to.

 

[Reality Check]

Overall I'm fine with the Lions draft.

Only gripes are taking another DT in the 3rd round and trading away a 4th rounder next year to move up in the 4th this year.

But we'll have more picks plus some compensatory picks next year so that may be a wash. At least both the picks I question the most ended up being defense as well.

 

[jkutswings]

Military kid? I cannot find much about St. Brown and never heard of him until Lions drafted him. Sounds like there is some potential but not expected to be a star. Let him be the diamond of the draft! Lions need it.

He's a kid with high talent but intermittent focus who projects to be a decent starting slot guy. Which in the short term should be music to Goff's ears, considering how often he went to Cooper Kupp.

 

[jkutswings]

Does anybody know when undrafted free agency begins? I wouldn't mind bringing any of these guys in for a workout:

Dylan Moses, LB, Alabama
Austin Watkins Jr, WR, UAB
Ar'darius Washington, S, TCU
Sadarius Hutcherson, G, S.Carolina
Tariq Thompson, S, San Diego State
Hamilcar Rashed Jr, DE, Oregon State

 

[Bondurant]

Does anybody know when undrafted free agency begins? I wouldn't mind bringing any of these guys in for a workout:

Dylan Moses, LB, Alabama
Austin Watkins Jr, WR, UAB
Ar'darius Washington, S, TCU
Sadarius Hutcherson, G, S.Carolina
Tariq Thompson, S, San Diego State
Hamilcar Rashed Jr, DE, Oregon State

Already going down. Lions have made 3 signings thus far.

 

[jkutswings]

Already going down. Lions have made 3 signings thus far.

Thanks! Here's a tracker - it's up to 7.

Detroit Lions' 2021 Undrafted Free Agent Tracker | Sports Illustrated Detroit Lions News, Analysis and More

 

[Bondurant]

Alex Karras was enshrined in Canton today. It is a disgrace it did not happen in his lifetime but happy for his family today.

 

[waltdetroit]

Kiper's evaluation ability is suspect. It seems he is wrong more often than right and he has a terrible track record with QB's. This video highlights some of my favorite Kiper duds (despite the click bait thumbnail).

The Huddle reports scores NFL draft predictors.

top 100 board scores

FYI...Kiper is 18thover the last 5 yrs

= TOP 100 BOARD CHAMPIONS RANK 5 YEAR AVERAGE 5 YEAR 2021 2020 2019 2018 2017 RANK 2 0 2 1 SCORE 1 DRAFT ACE 87.0 87 84 86 87 91 1 COLLEGE FOOTBALL METRICS 89 2 COLLEGE FOOTBALL METRICS 86.6 89 84 86 83 91 NFL DRAFT SHARK 89 3 NFL ROUGH DRAFT 86.2 84 85 86 89 87 3 THE HUDDLE REPORT 88 4 THE HUDDLE REPORT 85.8 88 83 87 83 88 4 DRAFT ACE 87 5 BOB MCGINN The Athletic 85.6 85 85 88 86 84 [TBODY] [/TBODY] [TBODY] [/TBODY]

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[newfy]

The Huddle reports scores NFL draft predictors.

top 100 board scores

FYI...Kiper is 18thover the last 5 yrs

= TOP 100 BOARD CHAMPIONS RANK 5 YEAR AVERAGE 5 YEAR 2021 2020 2019 2018 2017 RANK 2 0 2 1 SCORE 1 DRAFT ACE 87.0 87 84 86 87 91 1 COLLEGE FOOTBALL METRICS 89 2 COLLEGE FOOTBALL METRICS 86.6 89 84 86 83 91 NFL DRAFT SHARK 89 3 NFL ROUGH DRAFT 86.2 84 85 86 89 87 3 THE HUDDLE REPORT 88 4 THE HUDDLE REPORT 85.8 88 83 87 83 88 4 DRAFT ACE 87 5 BOB MCGINN The Athletic 85.6 85 85 88 86 84 [TBODY] [/TBODY] [TBODY] [/TBODY]

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Thats an interesting stat but it doesnt necessarily mean that people lower on the list arent good talent evaluators, it just means they guess who will be drafted where better.

 

[waltdetroit]

Thats an interesting stat but it doesnt necessarily mean that people lower on the list arent good talent evaluators, it just means they guess who will be drafted where better.

True, but that's the point of predicting. The site is not rating talent evaluation, although the 2 go hand in hand.