OT: Michigan Sports Thread: The 1-3 Edition

[Winger98]

So, let's talk about the Lions, Tigers, and Pistons...if we have to...I guess. At least the Tigers have good players coming up.

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[newfy]

Also, is Stafford a paper tiger? Yzerman 'at least' won a playoff series before he was 30. The Yzerman trade rumors to Ottawa were because he couldn't get them a cup win... sooo. Stafford has had a decade+ to deliver on that... and his statistical performance against teams above .500 is as impressive as his playoff record.

At this point, I just don't have any confidence in him moving forward, and feel like it's time to move on. That pick in the endzone (just now) is a perfect example of how he just sucks the life out of his team.

Stafford didnt have a great game but I seriously cannot stand when people watch the lions and thats the takeaway they come with. Stafford has had 1 or 2 seasons with a defense or a run game. Stafford is the only bright spot this org has had since Calvin left.

Even today, sure he threw a pick in the endzone. But its not like thats a danger area, he also threw for 3 TDs and the offense put up 29 points. And thats on what I would call a weaker outing for Stafford. Stafford gave the defense a 14 point lead early and at one point the defense allowed 4 touchdowns on 4 straight possessions I believe.

I would be fine with moving on from him, because it makes sense given his age and they could potentially get a high pick this year to use on Lawrence/Fields. But its absolutely not because of Stafford as a player and that shouldnt be your take away from watching these lions games

 

[Hen Kolland]

Stafford gave the defense a 14 point lead early

You say that like the defense didn’t give him the ball inside the New Orleans 20 on the second touchdown. Let’s not pretend that Stafford played a good game. Leading up to the interception, he threw a pass worthy of being intercepted that was bailed out by Jesse James. And then a shot down field that was bailed out by a penalty. And then became an actual interception. He also threw a second interception in the end zone that was offset by a poor call by an official on defensive illegal contact.

It’s okay to view Stafford as the best thing the Lions have, and it’s also true to say that he was nothing special today. Unfortunately, he has to be special to make this team win football games.

 

[avssuc]

Stafford didnt have a great game but I seriously cannot stand when people watch the lions and thats the takeaway they come with. Stafford has had 1 or 2 seasons with a defense or a run game. Stafford is the only bright spot this org has had since Calvin left.

Even today, sure he threw a pick in the endzone. But its not like thats a danger area, he also threw for 3 TDs and the offense put up 29 points. And thats on what I would call a weaker outing for Stafford. Stafford gave the defense a 14 point lead early and at one point the defense allowed 4 touchdowns on 4 straight possessions I believe.

I would be fine with moving on from him, because it makes sense given his age and they could potentially get a high pick this year to use on Lawrence/Fields. But its absolutely not because of Stafford as a player and that shouldnt be your take away from watching these lions games

How can a team be so bad for so long, 'other' than at QB and WR? It seems like a statistical anomaly. Why is his record so bad against teams above .500?

He's a fine QB, if he's insulated... but so are many others. His numbers are great, but for most of them he benefited from the prime of the most dominant receiver in the modern game. Eric Kramer got Barry 1 playoff win, 1 more than Calvin got from Stafford. They need to salt the earth at Ford Field.

 

[Bench]

It’s okay to view Stafford as the best thing the Lions have, and it’s also true to say that he was nothing special today. Unfortunately, he has to be special to make this team win football games.

True fact.

Dealt with this for years with Rodgers. If he wasn't spectacular, the game was usually just out of reach. Average games from him meant eating the L.

It's frustrating to watch the Lions from the outside, because they have absolutely had rosters that were on par with the Packers. And better draft position. The fact they are still looking like a team that needs to blow it up, Stafford including, is a nightmare.

 

[Ricelund]

Most pathetic franchise in sports.

 

[newfy]

You say that like the defense didn’t give him the ball inside the New Orleans 20 on the second touchdown. Let’s not pretend that Stafford played a good game. Leading up to the interception, he threw a pass worthy of being intercepted that was bailed out by Jesse James. And then a shot down field that was bailed out by a penalty. And then became an actual interception. He also threw a second interception in the end zone that was offset by a poor call by an official on defensive illegal contact.

It’s okay to view Stafford as the best thing the Lions have, and it’s also true to say that he was nothing special today. Unfortunately, he has to be special to make this team win football games.

The defense got him one turnover, he still put up 30 points and capitalised on the turnover. The defense also allowed 4 straight drives resulting in touchdowns. I already said Stafford didnt have a great game but Stafford being the problem and that post making it sound like hes been part of the problem all these years is outrageous.

You can make up all these shoulda coulda woulda interceptions but at the end of the day he threw one. And 3 touchdowns. There is no reason to be on Stafford after that game at all.

How can a team be so bad for so long, 'other' than at QB and WR? It seems like a statistical anomaly. Why is his record so bad against teams above .500?

He's a fine QB, if he's insulated... but so are many others. His numbers are great, but for most of them he benefited from the prime of the most dominant receiver in the modern game. Eric Kramer got Barry 1 playoff win, 1 more than Calvin got from Stafford. They need to salt the earth at Ford Field.

Well ya, the lions absolutely are a statistical anomaly. Even when they had Calvin for the most part I dont know that they were great at wide receiver. If CJ went out hurt, Stafford had no one else to give the ball to at all. Calvin benefitted just as much from Stafford as the other way around,and Stafford had some of his best years when Calvin retired and the lions got some depth at receiver.

Honestly, anyone who blames Stafford for being a big part of the problem with the Lions doesnt know what theyre talking about. Find a team with a comparable run game and defensive numbers to him in his career. You wont find any. A solid QB can drag a bad team up quite a bit, Stafford has done that every year except for 2014 essentially

 

[saska sault]

Patricia in the post game conference. "You know when I came to Detroit.. There was alot of work to do."

You successfully turned the 9 and 7 Caldwell Lions, with the little sliver of hope to have any inch of success during Stafford Lions tenure into the brink of a scorch the earth rebuild. Mission accomplished. The games have lost most of the entertainment with Patricia around.. He has brought a horrible atmosphere to this franchise. The Patriot way isn't a thing in other franchises.. They left because they were expandable.

 

[Bench]

They left because they were expandable.

That's quite a Freudian slip about Patricia.

 

[Bondurant]

I do not care if Stafford had a bad game. It happens. It is not Stafford's fault that game after game after game it takes 10+ Lions to tackle a player on every damn play. Matt Patricia is a terrible coach. He might be a rocket scientist but he cannot scheme a defense to save his life. Banish him to Ohio and send Quinn with him.

 

[Hen Kolland]

The defense got him one turnover, he still put up 30 points and capitalised on the turnover. The defense also allowed 4 straight drives resulting in touchdowns. I already said Stafford didnt have a great game but Stafford being the problem and that post making it sound like hes been part of the problem all these years is outrageous.

You can make up all these shoulda coulda woulda interceptions but at the end of the day he threw one. And 3 touchdowns. There is no reason to be on Stafford after that game at all.



Well ya, the lions absolutely are a statistical anomaly. Even when they had Calvin for the most part I dont know that they were great at wide receiver. If CJ went out hurt, Stafford had no one else to give the ball to at all. Calvin benefitted just as much from Stafford as the other way around,and Stafford had some of his best years when Calvin retired and the lions got some depth at receiver.

Honestly, anyone who blames Stafford for being a big part of the problem with the Lions doesnt know what theyre talking about. Find a team with a comparable run game and defensive numbers to him in his career. You wont find any. A solid QB can drag a bad team up quite a bit, Stafford has done that every year except for 2014 essentially

You know what also allows the defense to allow 4 straight touchdowns? The offense being shit. After the defense effectively gave Stafford a second touchdown early, here is the offensive production from the Lions in the first half.

5 plays, 17 yards, punt from Lions 39
3 plays, 35 yards, Stafford int.
3 plays, 3 yards, punt from Lions 25
5 plays, 14 yards, punt from Lions 39

Not exactly a spectacular showing. Do you need the defense to show up and make a stop? f*** yes. But this is the classic trap that people fall into, absolving the offense from blame because the defense can’t hang. You know how Seattle won this year prior to this week against Miami? Running up the score. They know the defense can’t stop anybody, so they go out and try to hang 50, and they do so effectively. With an actual MVP caliber QB.

 

[newfy]

You know what also allows the defense to allow 4 straight touchdowns? The offense being shit. After the defense effectively gave Stafford a second touchdown early, here is the offensive production from the Lions in the first half.

5 plays, 17 yards, punt from Lions 39
3 plays, 35 yards, Stafford int.
3 plays, 3 yards, punt from Lions 25
5 plays, 14 yards, punt from Lions 39

Not exactly a spectacular showing. Do you need the defense to show up and make a stop? f*** yes. But this is the classic trap that people fall into, absolving the offense from blame because the defense can’t hang. You know how Seattle won this year prior to this week against Miami? Running up the score. They know the defense can’t stop anybody, so they go out and try to hang 50, and they do so effectively. With an actual MVP caliber QB.

Where did those saints drive start from? Those arent great showings but even the Stafford pick turned the ball over at the NO 25. The saints had one drive start at the Detroit 49, the rest were on their own 25 or deeper and the defense allowed touchdowns on 5 straight drives. One of them was after halftime so the defense had plenty of time to get rsted and regroup. The offense could've scored in their again and it woulda helped sure, but youre saying they need to push 40 points at this point to say they had a shot at winning essentially... Thats on the defense.

Regardless of having a few bad drives in the middle of a game, thats not on the offense.The defense can hold 2 of those drives to a field goal, still allow 3 touchdowns and the lions win

 

[Hen Kolland]

Where did those saints drive start from? Those arent great showings but even the Stafford pick turned the ball over at the NO 25. The saints had one drive start at the Detroit 49, the rest were on their own 25 or deeper and the defense allowed touchdowns on 5 straight drives. One of them was after halftime so the defense had plenty of time to get rsted and regroup. The offense could've scored in their again and it woulda helped sure, but youre saying they need to push 40 points at this point to say they had a shot at winning essentially... Thats on the defense.

Regardless of having a few bad drives in the middle of a game, thats not on the offense.The defense can hold 2 of those drives to a field goal, still allow 3 touchdowns and the lions win

It's not the offense's fault for pulling a disappearing act?

You know the ONLY way to stop a streak of 35 unanswered points? The offense has to answer.

 

[newfy]

It's not the offense's fault for pulling a disappearing act?

You know the ONLY way to stop a streak of 35 unanswered points? The offense has to answer.

They put up 30 points, they had a lull and werent amazing but if you watched that and thought that was the offenses fault while the defense was getting gashed left and right I dont know what to tell you. The offense having to answer also doesnt mean Stafford was the issue either necessarily which was the start of this whole conversation

 

[Hen Kolland]

They put up 30 points, they had a lull and werent amazing but if you watched that and thought that was the offenses fault while the defense was getting gashed left and right I dont know what to tell you. The offense having to answer also doesnt mean Stafford was the issue either necessarily which was the start of this whole conversation

Nobody in their right mind would argue that the defense isn't the primary problem, but I'm also not so naive to ignore the offense not playing a complete game. We know he's the best thing they have, but if this team is ever going to win, then he needs to elevate his game. Stafford not being able to go shot for shot with a Michael Thomas-less Drew Brees, while the Saints defense is playing with f***ing practice squad corners on the field, I don't know how we are going to ever be in the discussion.

 

[raymond23]

Burn it to the ground

 

[Bench]

I'm going to say something nice about Patricia now:

His gaiter mask appears to have a thick, protective section around the mouth that makes it appropriate to use. Most of those thin, single layer gaiters are pretty worthless. Including the one used by my Golden God Matt LaFleur. So it's nice to see a coach actually use the right kind of gaiter mask.

 

[FabricDetails]

I'm going to say something nice about Patricia now:

His gaiter mask appears to have a thick, protective section around the mouth that makes it appropriate to use. Most of those thin, single layer gaiters are pretty worthless. Including the one used by my Golden God Matt LaFleur. So it's nice to see a coach actually use the right kind of gaiter mask.

You got "a lot of work to do."

 

[Bench]

You got "a lot of work to do."

Another gem of a quote from pencil boy.

He's that guy that acts tough, feigns taking responsibility, but ultimately has never actually failed or been wrong in his life according to him.

Wait, is Patricia on this forum?

 

[FabricDetails]

Another gem of a quote from pencil boy.

He's that guy that acts tough, feigns taking responsibility, but ultimately has never actually failed or been wrong in his life according to him.

Wait, is Patricia on this forum?

"Well what about that one time where I thought I was wrong but I wasn't? I was wrong about that..."

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I'm going to say something nice about Patricia now:

His gaiter mask appears to have a thick, protective section around the mouth that makes it appropriate to use. Most of those thin, single layer gaiters are pretty worthless. Including the one used by my Golden God Matt LaFleur. So it's nice to see a coach actually use the right kind of gaiter mask.

I would rather have Peter LaFleur in terms of the LaFleurs.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Stafford didnt have a great game but I seriously cannot stand when people watch the lions and thats the takeaway they come with. Stafford has had 1 or 2 seasons with a defense or a run game. Stafford is the only bright spot this org has had since Calvin left.

Even today, sure he threw a pick in the endzone. But its not like thats a danger area, he also threw for 3 TDs and the offense put up 29 points. And thats on what I would call a weaker outing for Stafford. Stafford gave the defense a 14 point lead early and at one point the defense allowed 4 touchdowns on 4 straight possessions I believe.

I would be fine with moving on from him, because it makes sense given his age and they could potentially get a high pick this year to use on Lawrence/Fields. But its absolutely not because of Stafford as a player and that shouldnt be your take away from watching these lions games

I carry the mail for Stafford a lot with my buddies.

He was not good yesterday, and his mistakes were big mistakes. That interception allows momentum to crest on us and with one three and out in between all of a sudden we are down 21 points. It is a play you cannot make, especially with the Saints getting their act together. That is the play his detractors make sound like it is happening all the time and while I roll my eyes, it certainly does happen from time to time. Yesterday was one. His balls were slightly off, he just wasn't at his best and we really needed that for sure yesterday.

There are a lot of problems in this organization and roster. While Stafford is probably the best thing we have, he has his moments as well. I honestly feel for the guy, we are helping waste his career like the other actual great players we have had. Really tired of watching that, but it seems to be our destiny.

 

[Bench]

I would rather have Peter LaFleur in terms of the LaFleurs.

 

[Bondurant]

Bill O'Brien was upgraded to GM this year. After starting 0-4 after back-to-back winning seasons with playoff appearances the McNair's have asked "What have you done for me lately?" and sacked O'Brien. C'mon, Sheila. Take a page from this playbook.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I would rather have Peter LaFleur in terms of the LaFleurs.

Eh, skip the Lafleurs and give me the Dufour-Lapointe sisters.