BTW, when Grabs was getting big minutes on the PK, we led the league in shorties, today he's on the PK maybe for 30 seconds while Brock Nelson is on for a minute and a half. Capuano is an freaken idiot!!
Michael Grabner
- Thread starter CanadienShark
- Start date
They can score and neither can he.
PK Cronin
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No, he really doesn't. They'd be in the same exact spot they are in right now.
PK Cronin
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We're 2nd in the NHL in shorthanded goals and have been over 90% for the past while without him.
That was before the surgery. Last year he got 3 breakaways a game, this season he just hasn't had the same speed.
Islanders1932
Registered User
Couldn't agree more. A few weeks ago he was the best player on the ice and hardly got any ice time.
PK Cronin
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What does being fast have to do with anything? He can't finish, can't pass, can't possess the puck. What is he bringing the NJD or to our lineup? CHANCES and breakaways he won't finish on! Boy, what a recipe for success that is. It's worked so well for him in years past that he hasn't had a 30 goal season in 4 seasons.
No. Grabner, setting aside his 30 goal season, has averaged 1.66 SHG a season. So we'd likely be tied for the top spot, perhaps 1 goal ahead. So over the course of a season, he's worth exactly 1 more goal SH...but that's going to be part of your argument for why he needs to play?
BillD
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- Feb 12, 2004
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The "can't finish" argument here is kind of mindless.
Forget this season, it was said before. In seasons past, NO ONE got as many chances to score as Grabner. Would we be happy if he got less breakaways? He did not convert on a high percentage but he converted to the equivalent of a 20+ goal scorer a season. Everyone here wants him to have a 50% shooting percentage but we can see from the shootout it is not that easy, and in the shootout guys can slow to an almost stop, have no back pressure, no hooks.
This year, even with all his injury issues and late start, lack of usual speed burst, he has scored at an 82 game pace of 18.5 goals (7g in 31 games a 12.7 shooting %).
Disregard his 34 goal first year, he had a few hattie and some EN to go with breakaway scoring. Say it's an aberration. Had a 14.9 shooting %.
2011-12 20 goals in 78 games played, 11.5 shooting %.
Lockout season 2012-13 equivalent to a 29 goal 82 game season (16g in 45 games, 14.8 shooting % ).
2013-14 Olympic year equivalent to a 15 goal 82 goal season (12g in 64 games played 8.8 shooting %). This was really his worst season up until this one where he has been injured and started late. Remember, he does not get power play time and never has.
Take these numbers into consideration, the guy is a 20+ goal scorer most years and you don't throw those kinds of players on the trash heap.
Really, he never converts? His shooting % is close to average and his goal scoring per game played would be 2nd highest on the team over the period to John Tavares. Let's dump 'em, he's useless.
Forget this season, it was said before. In seasons past, NO ONE got as many chances to score as Grabner. Would we be happy if he got less breakaways? He did not convert on a high percentage but he converted to the equivalent of a 20+ goal scorer a season. Everyone here wants him to have a 50% shooting percentage but we can see from the shootout it is not that easy, and in the shootout guys can slow to an almost stop, have no back pressure, no hooks.
This year, even with all his injury issues and late start, lack of usual speed burst, he has scored at an 82 game pace of 18.5 goals (7g in 31 games a 12.7 shooting %).
Disregard his 34 goal first year, he had a few hattie and some EN to go with breakaway scoring. Say it's an aberration. Had a 14.9 shooting %.
2011-12 20 goals in 78 games played, 11.5 shooting %.
Lockout season 2012-13 equivalent to a 29 goal 82 game season (16g in 45 games, 14.8 shooting % ).
2013-14 Olympic year equivalent to a 15 goal 82 goal season (12g in 64 games played 8.8 shooting %). This was really his worst season up until this one where he has been injured and started late. Remember, he does not get power play time and never has.
Take these numbers into consideration, the guy is a 20+ goal scorer most years and you don't throw those kinds of players on the trash heap.
Really, he never converts? His shooting % is close to average and his goal scoring per game played would be 2nd highest on the team over the period to John Tavares. Let's dump 'em, he's useless.
Tavares2TheRescue
#JreeFroadwayBay
Not sure where any of you guys are getting the notion that Grabner isn't a good player who should not only be a lock to be in the lineup, but also should get more minutes. So many of you seem to think Grabner has been worse this year and isn't a good goal scorer. The numbers don't support that. Just this year, Grabner has scored 1.1 even strength goals/60 minutes. To put that into some perspective, John Tavares has had 1.0 G/60 each of the past two seasons. Here's a post about Grabner that I made in another thread:
If numbers aren't really your thing, here's a visual representation of how good Grabs is:
If numbers aren't really your thing, here's a visual representation of how good Grabs is:
Not sure where any of you guys are getting the notion that Grabner isn't a good player who should not only be a lock to be in the lineup, but also should get more minutes. So many of you seem to think Grabner has been worse this year and isn't a good goal scorer. The numbers don't support that. Just this year, Grabner has scored 1.1 even strength goals/60 minutes. To put that into some perspective, John Tavares has had 1.0 G/60 each of the past two seasons. Here's a post about Grabner that I made in another thread:
If numbers aren't really your thing, here's a visual representation of how good Grabs is:
Ice-time is his biggest weakness. He doesn't get enough of it.
YearlyLottery
The Pooch Report
Not sure where any of you guys are getting the notion that Grabner isn't a good player who should not only be a lock to be in the lineup, but also should get more minutes. So many of you seem to think Grabner has been worse this year and isn't a good goal scorer. The numbers don't support that. Just this year, Grabner has scored 1.1 even strength goals/60 minutes. To put that into some perspective, John Tavares has had 1.0 G/60 each of the past two seasons. Here's a post about Grabner that I made in another thread:
If numbers aren't really your thing, here's a visual representation of how good Grabs is:
Very cool post but Grabner just is not a first liner on this team. You've got Tavares, Okposo, and Bailey up at first line doing fine as of now. Sure Okposo needs to shake the rust off but he will. Second line consists of Strome-Lee-Nelson and Grabner just fits on the third line as of now without Grabovski. He has chemistry with Frans and should continue to stay there.
The only way I see Grabner getting more ice time is if Cappy maybe moves Nelson down to the third line but he has been his best with Strome. I don't see how Grabner can get more ice time when there are just better hockey players on the team as of now.
I don't think T2R is saying he's a first liner, nor is that what the HERO chart is saying.
I think the issue is that Matt Martin and Casey Cizikas are not better players, but because of an obsession with "roles"; superior players like Grabner have to sit.
Tavares2TheRescue
#JreeFroadwayBay
I never said that Grabner should be on the first line. If he was actually going to get regular third line minutes, I'd be happy with that. As you can see on the graph, he's been getting the minutes of a fourth liner.
YearlyLottery
The Pooch Report
Bu.. Bu.. Matt Martin hits people and strikes fear into his opponents whenever he touches the ice. He should be protecting Tavares on the first line!!
Fair enough, I can agree totally then, just misread it.
Bu.. Bu.. Matt Martin hits people and strikes fear into his opponents whenever he touches the ice. He should be protecting Tavares on the first line!!
That's why everyone has been too scared to even dare try to concuss Grabovsky. Thanks Matt!
There are limits to what he can do. Forget about the whole breakaway thing - that's a nice element to his game, but also leads to one of my major complaints against Cappy's use of him. Grabner is actually good in the high slot, showing a deft eye for sneaking screened shots by goaltenders. Simply put he doesn't find himself in that position with the puck enough because he is finding himself on 2 on 1 breaks or handling the puck on the periphery of the offensive zone. He is not adept at converting on odd man rushes where the goaltender gets a solid look at his shot. Top of the slot, lots of bodies, and see his goal totals increase.
And I don't get all the Martin hate but whatever makes some people in here like their NHL95 is ok by me. But if you weren't so blinded by your dementia against a solid player you would notice it wasn't anyone on the 4th line robbing Grabner of his ice time. It's the guys on the first line, the same ones with the very unimpressive GF/GA average during 5 on 5. That again is a Cappy thing, a Johnny thing, and not a Matty thing. But who cares about actual TOI numbers because numbers are meaningle... OOPS!
Sheva7
Work Hahd Play Smaht
- Oct 11, 2011
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Scratching a guy who is very good defensively, scores at a clip thats in line with your average nhl 2ND liner, and is one of the best pkers on the planet makes absolutely no sense to me. None at all.
You people need to start looking at facts for once. You may say that he doesnt fit the system or that he misses all his chances or that he has stone hands....but guess what....the Facts indicate otherwise. The facts show that Grabs is a very good player who doesn't get any ice time. No icetime because Cappy has a hard on for watching guys skate around hard and not score.
Isles can't afford losing him just to keep a few inferior players and a dumbass of a coach happy.
You people need to start looking at facts for once. You may say that he doesnt fit the system or that he misses all his chances or that he has stone hands....but guess what....the Facts indicate otherwise. The facts show that Grabs is a very good player who doesn't get any ice time. No icetime because Cappy has a hard on for watching guys skate around hard and not score.
Isles can't afford losing him just to keep a few inferior players and a dumbass of a coach happy.
Grabner gets no ice time because he doesn't play.
No one is hating Matt Martin, but he really doesn't belong in the lineup over Michael Grabner.
PK Cronin
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I don't think you see enough of an increase in his productivity to warrant giving him more ice time.
Fitting a system is important.
What stat are you using to prove he doesn't have stone hands? What stat are you using to show he helps possession? What stat are you using to show how good of a passer he is?
Grabner is a fine player, and we're lucky to have him as an extra forward, but he does not fit on this team.
Sheva7
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Doshell Propivo
Registered User
- Dec 5, 2005
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In your opinion. Martin is a solid 4th liner who can play hockey. He also wears down opponents.
I'm assuming that advanced stats point to Grabner being superior over Martin but I wonder how much what Martin does contribute to overall team success.
PK Cronin
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The stats based off of a small sample size of ice time? Okay.
Edit: I see it's from years ago as well. His previous years have no bearing on what he's done this year and what he'll do going forward.
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