Confirmed with Link: #MelnykOut Campaign - successfully raised 8K over this past weekend.

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Nac Mac Feegle

wee & free
Jun 10, 2011
34,890
9,306
As much as I think it's a facile argument, I do wonder how much of this disparity in opinion can be attributed to generational gap. It seems like it's somewhat separated by age groups – those who are old enough to remember a time without NHL hockey in Ottawa seem more likely to think it's a fan problem, while those of us who have grown up with the Sens our whole lives seem more likely to hold ownership more accountable for the team's woes.

Maybe it's just confirmation bias and I'm seeing what I want to see? I don't know. Just spitballing. But there seems to be a level of learned helplessness, of "be happy we've got anything at all" coming from the detractors of the campaign. And on some level, I think we can all agree that having an NHL team is a good thing. Otherwise, we wouldn't be engaged enough to discuss the team's problems at all. But on the other hand, I think the younger generation feels more empowered to call attention to things that are being done poorly and realizing that we do have a voice and we just need to make it heard.

All that said, it's a damn shame that everything always becomes so adversarial. And I guess this is a problem that reaches far beyond hockey. But the notion that we're all Sens fans who just want what's best for the team never seems to enter the equation. It's so much easier to view it as an us vs. them kind of thing with each "side" getting more and more entrenched in its views.

I don't know if age as that much to do with it. We got a team when I was out of high school, so I've lived in the city both before and with the almighty NHL. Quite frankly, I'm getting to the point where I'd rather not have a team at all, than to constantly be called a "bad fan" for not selling a kidney to buy more tickets, and being held hostage by a lunatic billionaire who wants to squeeze us for every dollar we have. Anyone who cries poor while the value of his business quadruples in less than 20 years doesn't deserve an ounce of sympathy.
 

Sensung

Registered User
Oct 3, 2017
6,101
3,357
As much as I think it's a facile argument, I do wonder how much of this disparity in opinion can be attributed to generational gap. It seems like it's somewhat separated by age groups – those who are old enough to remember a time without NHL hockey in Ottawa seem more likely to think it's a fan problem, while those of us who have grown up with the Sens our whole lives seem more likely to hold ownership more accountable for the team's woes.

Maybe it's just confirmation bias and I'm seeing what I want to see? I don't know. Just spitballing. But there seems to be a level of learned helplessness, of "be happy we've got anything at all" coming from the detractors of the campaign. And on some level, I think we can all agree that having an NHL team is a good thing. Otherwise, we wouldn't be engaged enough to discuss the team's problems at all. But on the other hand, I think the younger generation feels more empowered to call attention to things that are being done poorly and realizing that we do have a voice and we just need to make it heard.

I'm old enough to have been around well before the Sens. I suspect many of the Melnykout people are too.

I simply don't believe the Sens will ever move, so the scare tactics don't work on me.

I also know that this market will have a team even if Melnyk by some miracle is allowed to relocate.

This team will be better off with a new owner. Virtually everyone agrees with this sentiment. Many are just not at the place yet where they are willing to take the steps needed to force Melnyk out.

Once he trades Karlsson there will be many more people on board.
 

stempniaksen

Registered User
Oct 12, 2008
11,036
4,316
Winnipeg got their franchise back, Quebec City is still waiting.

I'm not convinced Ottawa is a shoe-in to get the team back if they leave. That being said, there's almost no shot Melnyk is allowed to take this team out of Ottawa with a new rink going up downtown. Teams have been kept in much worse situations, because the NHL knows there's only so many other viable markets out there.
 

danielpalfredsson

youtube dot com /watch?v=CdqMZ_s7Y6k
Aug 14, 2013
16,575
9,269
People shouldn't even validate the idea of relocating by discussing it. I won't go over what has already been said about relocating in these types of threads, but for various reasons there is zero chance of relocation.

Melnyk either keeps the team here in Ottawa, or he sells it to someone who will. Those are his options.
 

Sensung

Registered User
Oct 3, 2017
6,101
3,357
People shouldn't even validate the idea of relocating by discussing it. I won't go over what has already been said about relocating in these types of threads, but for various reasons there is zero chance of relocation.

Melnyk either keeps the team here in Ottawa, or he sells it to someone who will. Those are his options.
Agreed

But the "buy tickets" crowd liked to use the "OMG we're going to lose the team" tactic to try to blackmail fans into purchasing tickets.

It also provides the opportunity to point out that Ottawa is a good NHL market.

I get a good laugh out of the posters who buy into Melnyk's BS about losing money ignoring that there are far worse markets out there that don't move. Add in the fact that 2 new Billionaires are paying over a BILLION DOLLARS to get into the league in Vegas and Seattle.

The ironic thing is that many of the Melnykout critics hold themselves up as business experts, but can't figure out the basic economics of this situation. Truly laughable.
 

Smash88

Registered User
Mar 15, 2012
3,484
344
Ottawa
Anyone who takes Cherry seriously at this stage is probably a 60+ yo who’s just as xenophobic and senile as he is. And they’re most likely Leafs fans.

It IS about getting the owner out. Mark my words, Karlsson is (will be) gone not because the team won’t offer him a fair contract, he’s gone because of Melnyk. Melnyk is a detriment to this team. No star player will ever want to play here as long as he’s around.

A billboard will obviously not be the thing that causes him to sell. But I’m pretty sure there wouldn’t be any town halls with Melnyk without the billboards.

Again, everyone has to watch his actual rant:

Sens fans get #MelnykOut trending in Canada after owner's comments - Sportsnet.ca

Yeah you would be quite surprised at how many people still listen to Don Cherry. I have no numbers to back it up or anything, but there is a reason he's still doing his segment and there is a huge outcry anytime they want to take him off. He almost won a greatest Canadian poll not too long ago just to give a perspective.

When I mentioned a few weeks ago about how I didn't like the hashtag because it implied that the goal was to remove Melnyk, I was told that wasn't the goal at all, that it was just to create discussion about the future of the team. So, again, this was my gripe right from the beginning, the average fan, won't bother visiting the website or getting informed and is just going to assume exactly what Cherry assumed.

The billboards did more than I thought they would, I agree there, but I don't think it will result in anything concrete other than what we have already been told.

Melnyk still hasn't changed his opinion, he still thinks he's a saviour that this city should be worshipping and that is how he will be approaching these town halls.
 

BatherSeason

Registered User
Jun 16, 2009
6,640
3,702
Gatineau
An interesting take on Cherry and the billboards...

Bruce Firestone is no fan of billboards or Coach's Corner

Yet another "let's all feel sorry for our billionaire owner" article by Bruce Garrioch.

I am excited for Don Brennan's rebuttal in the next few days, even though the paper seems to have moved him from covering the Sens lately., seems strange. I wonder why?? Fans have been calling for Brennan's head for years, with no resolution, yet, he writes a few honest pieces about Melnyk that people actually read and its time for him to cover curling.
 
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Pierre from Orleans

Registered User
May 9, 2007
26,287
17,636
People shouldn't even validate the idea of relocating by discussing it. I won't go over what has already been said about relocating in these types of threads, but for various reasons there is zero chance of relocation.

Melnyk either keeps the team here in Ottawa, or he sells it to someone who will. Those are his options.
Yea its absurd to even think its a remote possibility when there are other dying franchises across the league that have no indication of relocation with even bigger attendance issues
 

Ray Kinsella

Registered User
Feb 13, 2018
2,105
955
As much as I think it's a facile argument, I do wonder how much of this disparity in opinion can be attributed to generational gap. It seems like it's somewhat separated by age groups – those who are old enough to remember a time without NHL hockey in Ottawa seem more likely to think it's a fan problem, while those of us who have grown up with the Sens our whole lives seem more likely to hold ownership more accountable for the team's woes.

Maybe it's just confirmation bias and I'm seeing what I want to see? I don't know. Just spitballing. But there seems to be a level of learned helplessness, of "be happy we've got anything at all" coming from the detractors of the campaign. And on some level, I think we can all agree that having an NHL team is a good thing. Otherwise, we wouldn't be engaged enough to discuss the team's problems at all. But on the other hand, I think the younger generation feels more empowered to call attention to things that are being done poorly and realizing that we do have a voice and we just need to make it heard.

All that said, it's a damn shame that everything always becomes so adversarial. And I guess this is a problem that reaches far beyond hockey. But the notion that we're all Sens fans who just want what's best for the team never seems to enter the equation. It's so much easier to view it as an us vs. them kind of thing with each "side" getting more and more entrenched in its views.

“It seems like it's somewhat separated by age groups – those who are old enough to remember a time without NHL hockey in Ottawa seem more likely to think it's a fan problem, while those of us who have grown up with the Sens our whole lives...”

Man.... I suddenly feel old!! :(
 

Tuna99

Registered User
Sep 26, 2009
14,904
6,956
Meant no offence with the generation suggestion and glad I seem to be wrong, y'all. Just trying to think outside the box. :D

Ottawa has always been a quiet town but quietly super proud because its the city that gets dumped on all the time from Montreal, Toronto and the rest of the country for being the fat-cats city.

And that's fine, we can handle that, but what the people of Ottawa CANNOT stand is being treated with a small market mentality, as Melnyck did on Parliament Hill. The people of the city can take our shots and remain quiet, just don't call us a small town and DO NOT lecture us with a rich mans Toronto mentality - that just won't ever fly here. EVER

We won't stand for it, won't accept it and won't forgive it easliy.

This to me is the #1 indicator that Melnyck is totally out of touch with the mentality of the fanbase and the city.
 

mysens

Registered User
Apr 9, 2013
845
685
The Sens had an operating revenue surplus of approx. 27M last season according to the best source we have, Forbes.

Eugene cut spending further this season, in spite of his promise to "spend more when we were ready to compete" when he imposed the budget.

And in the rare season when he doesn't have surplus operating revenue, he can tap into the increased value of THIS BUSINESS, which has gone up by 400M (min) since he purchased it.
Wrong again, anybody with business savy knows that the 27m is not surplus. You need to tap into that to pay. But it seems you are always hooked on that number. Like Coladin said, keep banging that drum.
 

mysens

Registered User
Apr 9, 2013
845
685
BREAKING DOWN 'Operating Income'

Operating income is a measurement that shows how much of a company's revenue will eventually become profit. Operating Income is a synonym for earnings before interest and taxes (EBIT) and is also referred to as "operating profit" or "recurring profit."
Operating income is calculated as: Operating income = gross income - operating expenses - depreciation - amortization
The measure of operating income excludes items such as investments in other firms, taxes and interest expenses. In addition, nonrecurring items such as cash paid for a lawsuit settlement are not included. Operating income is required to calculate operating margin, which describes a company's operating efficiency.

BREAKING DOWN 'Profit'

Profit is the money a business makes after accounting for all expenses. Regardless of whether the business is a couple of kids running a lemonade stand or a publicly traded multinational company, consistently earning profit is every company's goal. As a result, much of business performance is based on profitability in its various forms. Some analysts are interested in top-line profitability, whereas others are interested in profitability before expenses, such as taxes and interest, and still others are only concerned with profitability after all expenses have been paid.
There are three major types of profit that analysts analyze: gross profit, operating profit and net profit. Each type of profit gives the analyst more information about the company's performance, especially when compared against other time periods and industry competitors. All three levels of profitability can be found on the income statement.
Gross, Operating and Net Profit

The first level of profitably is gross profit. Gross profit is sales minus the cost of goods sold. Sales is the first line item on the income statement and the cost of goods sold, also referred to as CGS, is generally listed just below it. For example, if company A has $100,000 in sales and a CGS of $60,000, it means the gross profit is $100,000 minus $60,000, which is $40,000. Divide gross profit by sales for the gross profit margin, which is $40,000 divided by $100,000, or 40%.
The second level of profitability is operating profit. Operating profit is calculated by deducting operating expenses from gross profit. Gross profit looks at profitability after direct expenses, and operating profit looks at profitability after operating expenses. These are things like salaries, general and administrative costs, also referred to as SG&A. If company A has $20,000 in operating expenses, the operating profit is $40,000 minus $20,000, equaling $20,000. Divide operating profit by sales for the operating profit margin, which is 20%.
The third level of profitably is net profit. Net profit is the income left over after all expenses, includes taxes and interest, have been paid. If interest is $5,000 and taxes are another $5,000, net profit is calculated by deducting both of these from operating profit. In this example the answer is $20,000 minus $5,000, minus $5,000, which equals $10,000. Divide net profit by sales for net profit margin, which is 10%.
Finally, broken down in a perfect manner. Still not sure that certain individuals are still going to get it. Great explanation!!
 

mysens

Registered User
Apr 9, 2013
845
685
Anyone who takes Cherry seriously at this stage is probably a 60+ yo who’s just as xenophobic and senile as he is. And they’re most likely Leafs fans.

It IS about getting the owner out. Mark my words, Karlsson is (will be) gone not because the team won’t offer him a fair contract, he’s gone because of Melnyk. Melnyk is a detriment to this team. No star player will ever want to play here as long as he’s around.

A billboard will obviously not be the thing that causes him to sell. But I’m pretty sure there wouldn’t be any town halls with Melnyk without the billboards.

Again, everyone has to watch his actual rant:

Sens fans get #MelnykOut trending in Canada after owner's comments - Sportsnet.ca
Do you know EK feels like that for certain? You are completely throwing darts at this one. I know many of you do not like me posting truths of this matter as it seems many can not get over that I have a connection to many on the team and their families. But EK wants to stay, his wife wants to stay and her family wants him to stay. SO, regardless of Melnyk or whom ever, I do not think he is a detriment to the team, everyone gets their pay checks, unlike the previous ownership.....lots of panic then. And, for the record, Don Cherry, whatever he maybe, made it very obvious to the rest of Canada and the world, that Ottawa has a very poor fan base with loads of entitlement issues.
 

stempniaksen

Registered User
Oct 12, 2008
11,036
4,316
Do you know EK feels like that for certain? You are completely throwing darts at this one. I know many of you do not like me posting truths of this matter as it seems many can not get over that I have a connection to many on the team and their families. But EK wants to stay, his wife wants to stay and her family wants him to stay. SO, regardless of Melnyk or whom ever, I do not think he is a detriment to the team, everyone gets their pay checks, unlike the previous ownership.....lots of panic then. And, for the record, Don Cherry, whatever he maybe, made it very obvious to the rest of Canada and the world, that Ottawa has a very poor fan base with loads of entitlement issues.

I don't think anyone really doubts that, which would make losing him all the more infuriating. Here's a homegrown, legitimate superstar player who actually wants to stick around and play out his career in Ottawa and we might lose him because the owner refuses to open the purse strings and sign him. That seems crazy to me, but alas, here we are.
 
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Sensung

Registered User
Oct 3, 2017
6,101
3,357
Wrong again, anybody with business savy knows that the 27m is not surplus. You need to tap into that to pay. But it seems you are always hooked on that number. Like Coladin said, keep banging that drum.
Derp.

If Melnyk can't "tap into" the 27M because he's loaded the franchise with debt, then that is HIS PROBLEM. The fans aren't responsible for this issue.

The team is a mid sized market with strong revenue streams.

And here's a question for you to ponder business genius.

If the NHL is such a poor business model and we should all feel sorry for poor Melnyk over some unsold playoff tickets, why are 2 Billionaires investing over a Billion dollars to buy into this league?
 
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BonHoonLayneCornell

Registered User
Oct 16, 2006
15,349
10,566
Yukon
Do you know EK feels like that for certain? You are completely throwing darts at this one. I know many of you do not like me posting truths of this matter as it seems many can not get over that I have a connection to many on the team and their families. But EK wants to stay, his wife wants to stay and her family wants him to stay. SO, regardless of Melnyk or whom ever, I do not think he is a detriment to the team, everyone gets their pay checks, unlike the previous ownership.....lots of panic then. And, for the record, Don Cherry, whatever he maybe, made it very obvious to the rest of Canada and the world, that Ottawa has a very poor fan base with loads of entitlement issues.
I think most here would actually be happy if that's the case and what you're saying is true, but being an anonymous internet message board, of course it's going to be taken with a grain of salt at minimum. Literally anyone could come on here and say the same things, or the opposite. If it turns out to be true, great, but it should be assumed that your statements would be doubted and I don't think you should be so salty about that.
 

coladin

Registered User
Sep 18, 2009
11,814
4,500
Agreed

But the "buy tickets" crowd liked to use the "OMG we're going to lose the team" tactic to try to blackmail fans into purchasing tickets.

It also provides the opportunity to point out that Ottawa is a good NHL market.

I get a good laugh out of the posters who buy into Melnyk's BS about losing money ignoring that there are far worse markets out there that don't move. Add in the fact that 2 new Billionaires are paying over a BILLION DOLLARS to get into the league in Vegas and Seattle.

The ironic thing is that many of the Melnykout critics hold themselves up as business experts, but can't figure out the basic economics of this situation. Truly laughable.

No.

I will speak for myself and say that the "buy tickets" crowd to support the team, which I am part of, is not about keeping the team. It is about WHAT kind of team we will have. It won't have stars that we want to watch. He won't be able to afford it. We will have a cap floor team. If everyone is ok with that, then, sure, stay home.

Any stars, in those "worse markets" that you speak of?
 
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