Confirmed with Link: #MelnykOut Campaign - successfully raised 8K over this past weekend.

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coladin

Registered User
Sep 18, 2009
11,781
4,476
Derp.

If Melnyk can't "tap into" the 27M because he's loaded the franchise with debt, then that is HIS PROBLEM. The fans aren't responsible for this issue.

The team is a mid sized market with strong revenue streams.

And here's a question for you to ponder business genius.

If the NHL is such a poor business model and we should all feel sorry for poor Melnyk over some unsold playoff tickets, why are 2 Billionaires investing over a Billion dollars to buy into this league?

Calgary has much better attendance and higher prices and they are receiving equalization payments. Bettman said they used to pay out, now they receive . There are a lot of factors that go into that equation. Building is a part of it. No one goes there for concerts. they all go to Edmonton. They lost 27 major acts last year just because of their building.

Expenses are high as they are paid in USD as well. It is still a gate driven league.

Revenue streams are not strong, team has 120K plus unsold seats and all the revenue that goes along with that. If Melnyk didn't secure that TV deal, team would be in big trouble. No matter how you slice it, he is down $10M in revenue with the empty seats, and the only way he made $10M was 9 extra home games with no salaries to cover. Just pure cash coming in. they probably lose $10M this year. Easy.
 

FolignoQuantumLeap

Don't Hold The Door
Mar 16, 2009
31,084
7,399
Ottawa
His comments about the billboards made me laugh.
Guys we shouldn't have done this, we hurt poor baby Eugene's feelings :(
It's not really surprising. Eugene is a staunch consumer of Fox News so he's very easily offended and triggered by real criticisms. He's unable to surround himself with the Yes men he once could after losing so much of his fortune to lawsuits, divorce and failed businesses. He's getting desperate.
 
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FolignoQuantumLeap

Don't Hold The Door
Mar 16, 2009
31,084
7,399
Ottawa
Calgary has much better attendance and higher prices and they are receiving equalization payments. Bettman said they used to pay out, now they receive . There are a lot of factors that go into that equation. Building is a part of it. No one goes there for concerts. they all go to Edmonton. They lost 27 major acts last year just because of their building.

Expenses are high as they are paid in USD as well. It is still a gate driven league.

Revenue streams are not strong, team has 120K plus unsold seats and all the revenue that goes along with that. If Melnyk didn't secure that TV deal, team would be in big trouble. No matter how you slice it, he is down $10M in revenue with the empty seats, and the only way he made $10M was 9 extra home games with no salaries to cover. Just pure cash coming in. they probably lose $10M this year. Easy.
If he's losing money, why not sell?
 
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Sensung

Registered User
Oct 3, 2017
6,101
3,357
Calgary has much better attendance and higher prices and they are receiving equalization payments. Bettman said they used to pay out, now they receive . There are a lot of factors that go into that equation. Building is a part of it. No one goes there for concerts. they all go to Edmonton. They lost 27 major acts last year just because of their building.

Expenses are high as they are paid in USD as well. It is still a gate driven league.

Revenue streams are not strong, team has 120K plus unsold seats and all the revenue that goes along with that. If Melnyk didn't secure that TV deal, team would be in big trouble. No matter how you slice it, he is down $10M in revenue with the empty seats, and the only way he made $10M was 9 extra home games with no salaries to cover. Just pure cash coming in. they probably lose $10M this year. Easy.
Bettman crying poor to try and get a new arena deal?

Wow, it must be serious then...

Answer this one question.

If the NHL is such a poor business model why are two new franchises being sold for 1.1 BILLION?
 

Sensung

Registered User
Oct 3, 2017
6,101
3,357
Operating income for Sens
2012 14.5
2013 6.8
2014 22.5
2015 18.5
2016 6.3
2017 10

The Sens are a solid business venture, even before we look at the appreciation on the asset.
 

Sensung

Registered User
Oct 3, 2017
6,101
3,357
Unsold tickets are the owners problem. The business sets the price of its product to maximize revenue. If they miss the pricepoint, then they are responsible to adjust.

The way the "buy tickets" crowd talks, there is no pricepoint that the owner could set that the "true fans" wouldn't be willing to pay.
Sorry, but that is simply ridiculous.
 

aragorn

Do The Right Thing
Aug 8, 2004
28,466
8,995
If he's losing money, why not sell?

If he were to sell are we assuming that the arena will magically fill up because of new ownership? Are we assuming that 2,000 plus fans are staying away because of the ownership? I'm not sure that many people care enough about the owner & it may have more to do with the costs associated with going to games for most folks. I can't stand the owner but I still go to games because I like & want to see NHL hockey. I couldn't stand the Gliebermans or Horn Chen but I still went to see football games because I like & want to watch live football.

It would be great to get a new owner with deeper pockets who would put more money into the team & organization but then again we could get exactly the same thing we have now & attendance could continue to hover around 15,000. What would new ownership do if they can't improve on the attendance? If Ottawa would not sell out playoff games then why would we think new ownership would change that? Regardless of who the new owner is I think the new arena will sell out for a yr or two but after that I expect the novelty to wear off & they could have trouble selling out again. Who knows but if he continues to lose money I expect he will start talking about relocation before selling IMO. What this team really needs is a brand new star, some kid who lights the NHL on fire with his play to bring back casual fans. Svechnikov could be that kind of player, they need a winning product, a product that can contend for the cup.
 

Sensung

Registered User
Oct 3, 2017
6,101
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If he were to sell are we assuming that the arena will magically fill up because of new ownership? Are we assuming that 2,000 plus fans are staying away because of the ownership? I'm not sure that many people care enough about the owner & it may have more to do with the costs associated with going to games for most folks. I can't stand the owner but I still go to games because I like & want to see NHL hockey. I couldn't stand the Gliebermans or Horn Chen but I still went to see football games because I like & want to watch live football.

It would be great to get a new owner with deeper pockets who would put more money into the team & organization but then again we could get exactly the same thing we have now & attendance could continue to hover around 15,000. What would new ownership do if they can't improve on the attendance? If Ottawa would not sell out playoff games then why would we think new ownership would change that? Regardless of who the new owner is I think the new arena will sell out for a yr or two but after that I expect the novelty to wear off & they could have trouble selling out again. Who knows but if he continues to lose money I expect he will start talking about relocation before selling IMO. What this team really needs is a brand new star, some kid who lights the NHL on fire with his play to bring back casual fans. Svechnikov could be that kind of player, they need a winning product, a product that can contend for the cup.
The Sens have an exciting generational player on the team now.

The trade EK theme from the deadline is what got the billboards off the ground.

And yes, a new owner that spends on all aspects of the org and gives fans hope will see the building fill up again.
 
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aragorn

Do The Right Thing
Aug 8, 2004
28,466
8,995
The Sens have an exciting generational player on the team now.

The trade EK theme from the deadline is what got the billboards off the ground.
I think it's a tough call for management to make whether to trade or re-sign Karlsson. If they are true to their word & they make him an offer, that's great IF it's an offer he would accept, they also made Turris an offer which he did not accept. Same with Alfredsson, so who knows with this owner.

What if they offer $10 mil & say they can't afford to pay him more than that & Karlsson says he wants $12 to $15 mil? Should they pay him & cripple the team or should they trade him & piss fans off? Who knows what they can afford or not afford, as fans I doubt anyone has any idea. They have yet to contend for a cup with Karlsson on the team, so who knows which is the best way to go for this franchise?

There are clearly no guarantees whichever way they decide. They could give Karlsson $12 mil & have no money left to improve the team anywhere else, to put more money into extra staff, coaches or scouts or to improve the minor league teams, who knows? And we would get to watch a generational player continue to lose almost every game. Who knows what is the best way forward?
 

Sensung

Registered User
Oct 3, 2017
6,101
3,357
It's pretty freaking simple.

Pay the player who has the biggest impact of any individual in the league whatever he wants AND THEN SPEND MORE MONEY TO BUILD AROUND HIM.

If Melnyk would get off his wallet and spend close to the cap, then I bet EK would help him out by taking less.
 

aragorn

Do The Right Thing
Aug 8, 2004
28,466
8,995
It's pretty freaking simple.

Pay the player who has the biggest impact of any individual in the league whatever he wants AND THEN SPEND MORE MONEY TO BUILD AROUND HIM.

If Melnyk would get off his wallet and spend close to the cap, then I bet EK would help him out by taking less.
I guess it's easy to spend someone else's money when it's not your money. EK has already said he wants whatever his market value is & if you are right & he is a generational player like McDavid than why wouldn't he want McDavid money? Is it smart to spend to the cap if you are having attendance issues? Will that bring back fans if it still doesn't result in wins? Where do fans get off telling the owner to spend more than the $70 plus million he already spends per yr?

As I continue to say, who knows how this will turn out? Whatever they do there is no guarantee they will win with or without EK in the lineup. Tell me, will you still be pleased if they sign EK to whatever he wants & the team still sucks afterwards with the generational player in the lineup which is basically what we had this yr? EK played most of the yr & people still weren't happy with this owner, with this team & sometimes with this player. There are no guarantees this team will be successful regardless of what they do & how much they spend, more money does not guarantee success.

More money isn't going to make these goaltenders better, more money won't prevent injuries or get them out of some of these awful contracts & more money won't make these young players play like veterans. This team has had a lot of problems this yr & I'm not sure any amount of money can fix all of their problems in just one yr. Why should they spend to the cap, if they are not a playoff team? Does that make sense? Or why spend to the cap if they can't sell out the arena, not even for playoff games? What is the purpose of blowing $80 million with the HOPE that it will translate into wins? As a business man isn't it more realistic to spend what you bring in to at the very least break even? Who enjoys losing money every yr?
 

Dino Tkachuk

Ottawa Senators
Jan 6, 2009
1,382
262
It's pretty freaking simple.

Pay the player who has the biggest impact of any individual in the league whatever he wants AND THEN SPEND MORE MONEY TO BUILD AROUND HIM.

If Melnyk would get off his wallet and spend close to the cap, then I bet EK would help him out by taking less.
For me, it's a lot more nuanced with a lot of "If...."s.

Simple question, do you pay Karlsson 12.5M per for 8 years, a cool $100M? No right or wrong, just curious... If you're inclined to provide your reasoning I'd really like to hear it.
 

FolignoQuantumLeap

Don't Hold The Door
Mar 16, 2009
31,084
7,399
Ottawa
For me, it's a lot more nuanced with a lot of "If...."s.

Simple question, do you pay Karlsson 12.5M per for 8 years, a cool $100M? No right or wrong, just curious... If you're inclined to provide your reasoning I'd really like to hear it.
That's the easiest yes anyone could make.

You build around players like Karlsson. Don't cheap out on cornerstone franchise players. Stop spending stupid money for the Condons, Smiths and Burrows of the world. That's where you save on player salaries, not on stars.

Need a manager who will stop signing marginal NHL talents to multi year contracts holding us back from re-signing important players like Stone and Karlsson.

But hey, our savvy business minded owner gave that guy a 3 year extension as a reward for squandering his money. Smart people all around this organization!
 

Ice-Tray

Registered User
Jan 31, 2006
16,288
8,100
Victoria
Personally I find it hard to see how folks can come to the conclusion that EM is making millions from the team every year but reducing the amount spent on the team every year. He's a lot of things, but I've never questioned his desire to have a winning team, he just doesn't want to go broke to try and make it happen.

If he was a rich as he was before, he'd likely spend like before, but alas the team is his sole business now. Like it or not it's not really something to get angry about, and it's not a reason to demand someone sells their business either. Like it or lump it, for now the team and the fans are married in a union of finances, where as one goes so does the other. There is no point in railing against it, and it's not like it's unfair or anything either. Just a shame he wasn't still filthy rich, but it is what it is.

We're not a floor team, or even close, and we have been a competitive team, and yet fans expect to get more and spend less. I'm clearly missing something here. Also, fans around here seem to insist that he spends all profits on the team, instead of, you know, keeping some for himself like most business owners do. If it's his only business that seems fair to me. Again, shame he wasn't more rich, but getting angry and demanding he sells the team is pretty entitled behaviour in my opinion.

I'm also wondering why it's worth considering the strong opinions of those who refuse to support the team to begin with. It's like "you're adamant about not supporting our team, so why in the world should I care about what you have to say about our team?"

There is far too much misdirected emotion behind this whole thing in my opinion, and far too little common sense.
 
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Dino Tkachuk

Ottawa Senators
Jan 6, 2009
1,382
262
That's the easiest yes anyone could make.

You build around players like Karlsson. Don't cheap out on cornerstone franchise players. Stop spending stupid money for the Condons, Smiths and Burrows of the world. That's where you save on player salaries, not on stars.

Need a manager who will stop signing marginal NHL talents to multi year contracts holding us back from re-signing important players like Stone and Karlsson.

But hey, our savvy business minded owner gave that guy a 3 year extension as a reward for squandering his money. Smart people all around this organization!
I'm not sure I sign him to that money. I also don't understand how you put all of this on Melnyk. To me this is also on management and Dorion/Boucher need to own a big part of this. I don't blame Melnyk as much as many (although he might be management now too with his many hats).
 
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mysens

Registered User
Apr 9, 2013
782
626
Derp.

If Melnyk can't "tap into" the 27M because he's loaded the franchise with debt, then that is HIS PROBLEM. The fans aren't responsible for this issue.

The team is a mid sized market with strong revenue streams.

And here's a question for you to ponder business genius.

If the NHL is such a poor business model and we should all feel sorry for poor Melnyk over some unsold playoff tickets, why are 2 Billionaires investing over a Billion dollars to buy into this league?
Thanks for the compliment.....business genius. Yes. So, how do you think he is able to try and I emphasize TRY, to secure the Lebraton project. There is a term in multi millionaire/billionaire talk, that in order to go ahead and secure this advancement in the massive project, he needs a "letter of intent" to bring to his bank which needs to pre approve. So, if he wants and needs 500million to go ahead, he will certainly leverage his big juicy equity in the Senators. Therefore, in the eyes of the financial institution, that big juicy equity that you have a major obsession with, is pretty much locked up. This is also called a Term Sheet that he receives, again, with the pre approval process being complete. So, thanks for the superb compliment and allowing me to ponder my thought as I get ready to watch this game tonight.
 

Sensung

Registered User
Oct 3, 2017
6,101
3,357
I guess ...

Simple question for you, what do you think ticket sales would have been this year if the team capitalized on the revenue windfall from playoffs/expansion and the exciting playoff run and ran a publicity campaign making a big deal about how they were going to spend more money to push the Sens over the top after being "one goal from the cup final"?

The fanbase has no hope. HOPE sells tickets!!!
 

Sensung

Registered User
Oct 3, 2017
6,101
3,357
For me, it's a lot more nuanced with a lot of "If...."s.

Simple question, do you pay Karlsson 12.5M per for 8 years, a cool $100M? No right or wrong, just curious... If you're inclined to provide your reasoning I'd really like to hear it.
Yes, without question.

You build around players like EK because they don't come around very often. If we have an owner that it unwilling to pay for one of the top talents in the NHL, then we need a new owner.
 

Sensung

Registered User
Oct 3, 2017
6,101
3,357
Personally I....

The team produces a solid revenue stream.

The asset has appreciated at an incredible rate.

If this owner has issues with debt that cause him to be unable to make it work here, then he should cash in.
 

stempniaksen

Registered User
Oct 12, 2008
11,005
4,263
Personally I find it hard to see how folks can come to the conclusion that EM is making millions from the team every year but reducing the amount spent on the team every year. He's a lot of things, but I've never questioned his desire to have a winning team, he just doesn't want to go broke to try and make it happen.

I could not disagree more with this statement. I can absolutely see a situation where EM is using the Senators (and all the other business' that go along with them) as his primary source of income now that his other companies have flamed out. How could you not question his desire to win after watching him cut team payroll and drastically reduce the size of the front office and staff in general. He doesn't have to go broke financing this team, I don't think anyone is asking him to. That being said, if he can't afford to run this team he needs to cash-out. The value of the team has never been higher with Lebreton on the horizon and the strength of the league with expansion going on.
 

Sensung

Registered User
Oct 3, 2017
6,101
3,357
Thanks for the compliment.....business genius. Yes. So, how do you think he is able to try and I emphasize TRY, to secure the Lebraton project. There is a term in multi millionaire/billionaire talk, that in order to go ahead and secure this advancement in the massive project, he needs a "letter of intent" to bring to his bank which needs to pre approve. So, if he wants and needs 500million to go ahead, he will certainly leverage his big juicy equity in the Senators. Therefore, in the eyes of the financial institution, that big juicy equity that you have a major obsession with, is pretty much locked up. This is also called a Term Sheet that he receives, again, with the pre approval process being complete. So, thanks for the superb compliment and allowing me to ponder my thought as I get ready to watch this game tonight.

Couldn't help but notice you failed to answer my question...

If the NHL business model is so flawed that a middle of the road market with solid revenue streams is a losing proposition for Melnyk, then why are two parties spending 1.1 BILLION to join the NHL?
 

JD1

Registered User
Sep 12, 2005
15,988
9,554
I could not disagree more with this statement. I can absolutely see a situation where EM is using the Senators (and all the other business' that go along with them) as his primary source of income now that his other companies have flamed out.


let's be clear about some numbers here

Forbes says the team is worth 420 and he has 30% or so debt. So his equity is roughly 300

Canadian Business Insider says his net worth as of December 2017 was 1.15 B.

So....that's over 800M of net worth not related to the Senators

While anything is possible I think it's unlikely that the Senators and related companies are Eugene's personal cash cow.
 

mysens

Registered User
Apr 9, 2013
782
626
Couldn't help but notice you failed to answer my question...

If the NHL business model is so flawed that a middle of the road market with solid revenue streams is a losing proposition for Melnyk, then why are two parties spending 1.1 BILLION to join the NHL?
Just like I thought.....right over your head like that Boeing 737 flying over your house.
 

Ray Kinsella

Registered User
Feb 13, 2018
2,105
955
Do you know EK feels like that for certain? You are completely throwing darts at this one. I know many of you do not like me posting truths of this matter as it seems many can not get over that I have a connection to many on the team and their families. But EK wants to stay, his wife wants to stay and her family wants him to stay. SO, regardless of Melnyk or whom ever, I do not think he is a detriment to the team, everyone gets their pay checks, unlike the previous ownership.....lots of panic then. And, for the record, Don Cherry, whatever he maybe, made it very obvious to the rest of Canada and the world, that Ottawa has a very poor fan base with loads of entitlement issues.

You are amazingly relentless with that “I know all those people and their family” thing... to the point that it’s become juvenile. Who, in their right professional mind would carry on like this? I mean... seriously? Do you actually hear yourself talk/write?

And on the point of another poster who mentions that you never answer his questions, he’s absolutely right! In another of your apparent “bragging rights” you stated you deal with multiple charitable organizations. I’v been in the not for profit sector for over 15 years. I asked you before who you deal with and you failed to answer that, among several other questions people ask you. When and if you ever answer, it’s constantly irrelevant to the question that was asked.

You’re like, well... a child.

Apologies to all children worldwide!
 
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