Proposal: McKenzie's list is out - AZ and MTL swap

[HockeyDBspecialist]

Rather take the 2019 2nd.

or first

 

[AvatarAang]

The idea is both the Sens and Coyotes want Zadina. So if the Coyotes want him and give us a future 2nd, then we make the deal. Or the Sens make a deal with us instead to guarantee they get Zadina.

lol my god what a homer post.

You do realize it's the Habs that have zero leverage, everyone knows they desperately need a C. Heck your GM's job is probably on the line (although it should have been years ago), Bergevin is the one under pressure to land a C.

Sens/Arz have no reason to pay your ridiculous price. They'll still get the player the winger/dman they want regardless, if not there will be several similar players available.

Habs will select Kotka at 3 because no one with a pick that has good odds at selecting him will give up anything of value. Then we'll get the usual bs story about how Bergevin ranked him as the best player at the draft available blah blah

 

[De Montreal]

3rd overall pick + Domi for 5th overall pick + Galchenyuk? Maybe a low pick to balance things out?

 

[Blue Goose]

I can't see Ottawa taking Kotkaniemi. This makes sense if Arizona wants Zadina. If they don't though they could easily take Tkachuck at 5 instead. They trade Domi for a more skilled potential C in Galcenyuk and then immediately replace Domi's grit with Tkachuck.

Yeah, it would be cool to see a 2nd generation Coyote!

AZ fans: if the idea is that the Coyotes don't want Kotkaniemi and would prefer Zadina/Tkachuk, who do you think they pick if Zadina/Tkachuk go #3 and #4? I'm very curious.

 

[Deam78]

I would def take the risk if Marc talked with Dorion (which they will) they are good friend too. It's def a risk but I highly doubt there will be some kind of backstab.
they can also trade with Ottawa.

You just don't want another Mikko Koivu story.

 

[rt]

I'm waiting on some propositions
. they can add 55th+65th or POJ.

Not a chance.

If I'm Chayka, I just tell Bergevin that my top five is 1. Dahlin, 2. Svechnikov 3. Zadina 4. Kotkaniemi 5. Tkachuk. Now Bergevin knows he's can't trade to 6th or 7th or 8th and expect Kotkaniemi to be there. Odds are Arizona is taking him 5th, so that's as low as Montreal can go.

Ottawa has no reason to reach for a center at 4th overall. They've got great center prospects. If Arizona takes Zadina 3rd, Kotkaniemi will almost certainly be there at 5th.

In this scenario, Montreal has two options: 1) Pick Kotkaniemi 3rd, or 2) Take whatever they can get from Arizona to move to 5th

In the interest of fairness and good faith, I might offer pick 55 if I'm Chayka. Montreal gets their guy at 5th and Bergevin gets a free 2nd rounder out of it. He has no reason not to accept a 3rd rounder, but we let him save some face by at least getting a 2nd. We get Zadina.

 

[The Great Weal]

Not a chance.

If I'm Chayka, I just tell Bergevin that my top five is 1. Dahlin, 2. Svechnikov 3. Zadina 4. Kotkaniemi 5. Tkachuk. Now Bergevin knows he's can't trade to 6th or 7th or 8th and expect Kotkaniemi to be there. Odds are Arizona is taking him 5th, so that's as low as Montreal can go.

Ottawa has no reason to reach for a center at 4th overall. They've got great center prospects. If Arizona takes Zadina 3rd, Kotkaniemi will almost certainly be there at 5th.

In this scenario, Montreal has two options: 1) Pick Kotkaniemi 3rd, or 2) Take whatever they can get from Arizona to move to 5th

In the interest of fairness and good faith, I might offer pick 55 if I'm Chayka. Montreal gets their guy at 5th and Bergevin gets a free 2nd rounder out of it. He has no reason not to accept a 3rd rounder, but we let him save some face by at least getting a 2nd. We get Zadina.

Well if I'm Bergevin I just say that if you aren't offering anything worthwhile, we will take Kotkaniemi, Sens take Zadina and you get the player you want the least. It is far from guaranteed that the Sens don't take Kotkaniemi. Centers are incredibly valuable, and who knows what their future looks like(imagine if Duchene wants out because of the shitshow).

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

Not a chance.

If I'm Chayka, I just tell Bergevin that my top five is 1. Dahlin, 2. Svechnikov 3. Zadina 4. Kotkaniemi 5. Tkachuk. Now Bergevin knows he's can't trade to 6th or 7th or 8th and expect Kotkaniemi to be there. Odds are Arizona is taking him 5th, so that's as low as Montreal can go.

Ottawa has no reason to reach for a center at 4th overall. They've got great center prospects. If Arizona takes Zadina 3rd, Kotkaniemi will almost certainly be there at 5th.

In this scenario, Montreal has two options: 1) Pick Kotkaniemi 3rd, or 2) Take whatever they can get from Arizona to move to 5th

In the interest of fairness and good faith, I might offer pick 55 if I'm Chayka. Montreal gets their guy at 5th and Bergevin gets a free 2nd rounder out of it. He has no reason not to accept a 3rd rounder, but we let him save some face by at least getting a 2nd. We get Zadina.

The thing you forget is that Most GMs know that Bergevin wants Kotka but they are not 100% sure he will take him at 3 because Mtl is high on Zadina too.
Arizona can play that gamble it's really a win-win situation at a small price for a winger like Zadina. If you don't trade up for that #3 you still have a chance to miss Zadina and you need a scoring winger as good as Zadina.

 

[SniperHF]

There's not a chance in hell POJ is on the table to move up 2 spots.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Change the 2nd to 2019 and add a 3rd 2018

 

[Deam78]

lol my god what a homer post.

You do realize it's the Habs that have zero leverage, everyone knows they desperately need a C. Heck your GM's job is probably on the line (although it should have been years ago), Bergevin is the one under pressure to land a C.

Sens/Arz have no reason to pay your ridiculous price. They'll still get the player the winger/dman they want regardless, if not there will be several similar players available.

Habs will select Kotka at 3 because no one with a pick that has good odds at selecting him will give up anything of value. Then we'll get the usual bs story about how Bergevin ranked him as the best player at the draft available blah blah

How is that a homer post? lol

Every draft teams explore trading up and down, what is it homer?

By saying we're not taking Zadina we're creating a bidding war for who wants him the most between AZ and Ottawa. We're not talking a drafting spot anymore, we're talking real player.

 

[BatVader]

IMO...with Kotkaniemi listed in the top 5, it justifies Bergevin taking him at 3rd. It’s only 2 spots and he fills the Habs biggest need. He won’t trade down and risk Ottawa or anyone else taking him.

 

[Ouroboros]

The Senators are no threat take Kotkaniemi. Ottawa have very little scouting presence in Europe, have only drafted one Finnish player in the past 12 drafts, and have largely shown no interest in the guy.

I think Ottawa's most probable target is Tkachuk - if the Habs stay put at 3, I expect the Sens would take him over Zadina.

It might make more sense for everybody to just stay where they are.

 

[rt]

Well if I'm Bergevin I just say that if you aren't offering anything worthwhile, we will take Kotkaniemi, Sens take Zadina and you get the player you want the least...

We'll live:

...Zadina is still very much a consensus top-five pick, relative to the other prospects, five of 10 scouts surveyed by TSN ranked him outside their top five. Five scouts had him in the top five, including three of them at No. 3, but he had three 6’s, a 7 and a 9 as well...

https://www.tsn.ca/kotkaniemi-surges-into-top-five-of-tsn-draft-ranking-1.1115400

 

[rt]

The thing you forget is that Most GMs know that Bergevin wants Kotka but they are not 100% sure he will take him at 3 because Mtl is high on Zadina too.
Arizona can play that gamble it's really a win-win situation at a small price for a winger like Zadina. If you don't trade up for that #3 you still have a chance to miss Zadina and you need a scoring winger as good as Zadina.

We need everything. Our team sucks. We need Zadina and we need Kotkaniemi. We need Hughes and Bouchard, too.

 

[The Great Weal]

We'll live:

https://www.tsn.ca/kotkaniemi-surges-into-top-five-of-tsn-draft-ranking-1.1115400

Sure, he might be there. Key word is might. Why should the Habs be the ones taking the risk when all they get is a late-ish 2nd? We already have 4 this year, and there is no guarantee that the Sens pass on Kotkaniemi. Yotes are the ones that are worried about Sens taking Zadina(which is very likely) and according to the hypothetical scenario of 3.Zadina 4.Kotkaniemi and 5. Tkachuk, you will risk getting the player you want the least.

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

We need everything. Our team sucks. We need Zadina and we need Kotkaniemi. We need Hughes and Bouchard, too.

in a dream world I would trade all our team except Gal and mete to draft those

 

[sheed36]

The Senators are no threat take Kotkaniemi. Ottawa have very little scouting presence in Europe, have only drafted one Finnish player in the past 12 drafts, and have largely shown no interest in the guy.

I think Ottawa's most probable target is Tkachuk - if the Habs stay put at 3, I expect the Sens would take him over Zadina.

It might make more sense for everybody to just stay where they are.

No one can be 100% sure of that at this point though. Even if Kotkaniemi isn't a target for the Sens what's to say they don't swap with a team a couple of spots down to still get the player they want and the other team moves up to 4 a grabs Kotkaniemi before the Habs.

If the Habs have their mind set on Kotkaniemi just take him @ 3. That way there's no risk of possibly losing out on him from Ottawa or another team trading up and taking him first.

 

[Number 57]

The only reason ARZ moves up at all is to grab Zadina in front of Ottawa. With that said Chayka may be happy with Tkachuk (son of former Coyote Keith Tkachuk) too. 99% one of Tkachuk/Zadina is there at 5 so why give up the pick to move up to 3 at all? Let the Habs take Kotkaniemi at 3 and keep your picks.

Draft Zadina or Tkachuk.

 

[sheed36]

Sure, he might be there. Key word is might. Why should the Habs be the ones taking the risk when all they get is a late-ish 2nd? We already have 4 this year, and there is no guarantee that the Sens pass on Kotkaniemi. Yotes are the ones that are worried about Sens taking Zadina(which is very likely) and according to the hypothetical scenario of 3.Zadina 4.Kotkaniemi and 5. Tkachuk, you will risk getting the player you want the least.

Or the Sens swapping picks with another team and that team moving up and taking Kotkaniemi @ 4.

 

[rt]

Sure, he might be there. Key word is might. Why should the Habs be the ones taking the risk when all they get is a late-ish 2nd? We already have 4 this year, and there is no guarantee that the Sens pass on Kotkaniemi. Yotes are the ones that are worried about Sens taking Zadina(which is very likely) and according to the hypothetical scenario of 3.Zadina 4.Kotkaniemi and 5. Tkachuk, you will risk getting the player you want the least.

The Coyotes might fall into the 50% of teams polled by McKenzie that don't view him as a top five pick. Half of the scouts McKenzie talked to wouldn't take him in the top five.

 

[rt]

The only reason ARZ moves up at all is to grab Zadina in front of Ottawa. With that said Chayka may be happy with Tkachuk (son of former Coyote Keith Tkachuk) too. 99% one of Tkachuk/Zadina is there at 5 so why give up the pick to move up to 3 at all? Let the Habs take Kotkaniemi at 3 and keep your picks.

Draft Zadina or Tkachuk.

According to the McKenzie poll, 9/10 scouts surveyed see Tkachuk as a top five pick, and he's comfortably ahead of Zadina:

...Tkachuk appears to have that certain something and only one of our 10 scouts surveyed had him outside the top five...

If the Coyotes are anything like the majority of the scouts McKenzie polled, they've got Tkachuk ahead of Zadina, but it's close enough not to worry about too much.

As I said, we'll live either way. I wouldn't move up.

 

[The Great Weal]

The Coyotes might fall into the 50% of teams polled by McKenzie that don't view him as a top five pick. Half of the scouts McKenzie talked to wouldn't take him in the top five.

This doesn't explain why the Habs should risk missing out on Kotkaniemi by having the Sens take him or someone else trading up for him, when all they get is another 2nd when they already have 4... Yotes are the ones risking it here if they want Zadina at 5. He may or may not be there, time will tell.

 

[rt]

This doesn't explain why the Habs should risk missing out on Kotkaniemi by having the Sens take him or someone else trading up for him, when all they get is another 2nd when they already have 4... Yotes are the ones risking it here if they want Zadina at 5. He may or may not be there, time will tell.

There aren't 10,000 rumors about the Coyotes wanting to move up. It's Montreal wanting to move down that's flooding the internet. The whole world knows Montreal wants Kotkaniemi. They no longer have any leverage. Just take him 3rd overall.

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

Kotkaniemi will be better than Zadina imo (Long Term At least)