Proposal: McKenzie's list is out - AZ and MTL swap

[Habs Halifax]

The Senators are no threat take Kotkaniemi. Ottawa have very little scouting presence in Europe, have only drafted one Finnish player in the past 12 drafts, and have largely shown no interest in the guy.

I think Ottawa's most probable target is Tkachuk - if the Habs stay put at 3, I expect the Sens would take him over Zadina.

It might make more sense for everybody to just stay where they are.

I agree the Sens probably won't take Kotkaniemi 4th but it's not worth the gamble for the Habs to trade down and not get their guy. So there has to be another way and it might go down like this... Dahlin, Svechnikov, Zadina, Tkachuk. Then we have a trade to announce. Habs trade Zadina to the Coyotes for the 5th pick, 2019 2nd, and 2020 3rd.

This trade is pre-negotiated with the Coyotes and depends on if the Sens take Kotkaniemi 4th or not. Or the Habs negotiate with the Sens. Habs are in the drivers seat here and if negotiations get difficult with either the Sens or Coyotes, we have no problem taking Kotkaniemi 3rd OA.

 

[The Great Weal]

There aren't 10,000 rumors about the Coyotes wanting to move up. It's Montreal wanting to move down that's flooding the internet. The whole world knows Montreal wants Kotkaniemi. They no longer have any leverage. Just take him 3rd overall.

And they will if they want. It's far from a guarantee that they take him at 3. All I'm saying is that a late 2nd makes no sense for the Habs to risk losing a player that they want while the Yotes guarantee a player that they want.

 

[mouser]

The Coyotes might fall into the 50% of teams polled by McKenzie that don't view him as a top five pick. Half of the scouts McKenzie talked to wouldn't take him in the top five.

My personal suspicion is Chayka's list probably has a D as BPA for pick #5.

 

[Habs Halifax]

And they will if they want. It's far from a guarantee that they take him at 3. All I'm saying is that a late 2nd makes no sense for the Habs to risk losing a player that they want while the Yotes guarantee a player that they want.

Agreed. There has to be assurances we get our guy if we trade to the 5th pick.

 

[Ouroboros]

No one can be 100% sure of that at this point though. Even if Kotkaniemi isn't a target for the Sens what's to say they don't swap with a team a couple of spots down to still get the player they want and the other team moves up to 4 a grabs Kotkaniemi before the Habs.

If the Habs have their mind set on Kotkaniemi just take him @ 3. That way there's no risk of possibly losing out on him from Ottawa or another team trading up and taking him first.

Trading down would be very out of character for the Sens as well - I can't remember the last time they did that. In fact, they've made many statements in the past that indicate that moving down is almost never an option for them. Perhaps they'd reconsider in this situation due to not having a 2nd or 3rd round pick in this year's draft, but I would say it's unlikely.

I agree that the Habs should just draft Kotkaniemi at 3 if they believe that highly in him.

 

[Meeqs]

Az is likely to want to take a dman with where they are at. Even if lets say they want Zadina, its assumed MTL wants to take a C or a D so all you have to worry about is Ott/Col taking the winger, which there is still a chance that team prefers Tkachuk.

It makes the most sense for Az to just take the BPA as it will be useful no matter who it is. There will be plenty of options for them to get the type of player they want at that spot.

 

[IPreferPi]

Well if I'm Bergevin I just say that if you aren't offering anything worthwhile, we will take Kotkaniemi, Sens take Zadina and you get the player you want the least. It is far from guaranteed that the Sens don't take Kotkaniemi. Centers are incredibly valuable, and who knows what their future looks like(imagine if Duchene wants out because of the ****show).

Wahlstrom/Dobson/Bouchard/Hughes/Tkachuk are all fine "consolation" prizes for missing out on Zadina, thanks.

 

[rt]

And they will if they want. It's far from a guarantee that they take him at 3. All I'm saying is that a late 2nd makes no sense for the Habs to risk losing a player that they want while the Yotes guarantee a player that they want.

It works both ways. There's no sense in giving up more, if the worst that happens is you force Montreal into picking a player you wouldn't actually consider at 5th.

Let's say the Coyotes draft list looks like this:
1. Dahlin
2. Svechnikov
3. Tkachuk
4. Zadina
5. Dobson

Why would they give up pick 55 to move up? If they don't have Kotkaniemi in their top six, it guarantees they'll get at least their 4th ranked player.

If we don't have Kotkaniemi in our top five, we aren't moving up two spots, we're moving up just one spot. It would be the difference between our 4th ranked guy and our 3rd ranked guy.

 

[AZviaNJ]

Rather take the 2019 2nd.

Don't think Coyotes offer their 2019 2nd....they traded their 2018 2nd and that's a sore spot.

I'm waiting on some propositions
. they can add 55th+65th or POJ.

Coyotes aren't that desperate to move up. Definitely not POJ, maybe 55th but not with 65th. Alternatively, a prospect like MacInnis or Capabianco.

Or we can just wait until 5.

 

[xNogaitx]

In my opinion, it's a smart move on Montreal's end to leak that info to the media.

Let's put it this way, most ramblings show that Ottawa is currently focusing on Tkachuk & Bouchard (Although Zadina being available could change things up.)
Arizona seems to be on the Zadina, Tkachuk, Bouchard train as well.

Bergevin has gone to watch Dobson play, and had a dinner with Kotkaniemi. Which means those two are the most likely target of the Habs.

It's highly unlikely that both Kotkaniemi and Dobson get selected 3rd and 4th, so that means that by leaking that info, they can easily take a chance of getting the player they want and grab an extra 2nd round pick type return.

 

[rt]

In my opinion, it's a smart move on Montreal's end to leak that info to the media.

Let's put it this way, most ramblings show that Ottawa is currently focusing on Tkachuk & Bouchard (Although Zadina being available could change things up.)
Arizona seems to be on the Zadina, Tkachuk, Bouchard train as well.

Bergevin has gone to watch Dobson play, and had a dinner with Kotkaniemi. Which means those two are the most likely target of the Habs.

It's highly unlikely that both Kotkaniemi and Dobson get selected 3rd and 4th, so that means that by leaking that info, they can easily take a chance of getting the player they want and grab an extra 2nd round pick type return.

There’s been no public indication of any kind about which prospect the Coyotes might be targeting at 5th or at 3rd.

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

Don't think Coyotes offer their 2019 2nd....they traded their 2018 2nd and that's a sore spot.
Coyotes aren't that desperate to move up. Definitely not POJ, maybe 55th but not with 65th. Alternatively, a prospect like MacInnis or Capabianco.

Or we can just wait until 5.

I wouldnt be hungry on that swap. I really think it will be 55th+ small add.

 

[bleedgreen]

If they’re so closely ranked there’s no point swapping down. Just take your guy.

 

[xNogaitx]

There’s been no public indication of any kind about which prospect the Coyotes might be targeting at 5th or at 3rd.

Zona has mostly drafted Ds in the past few years (except for Keller) and traded for Ds as well. With OEL resigned, and the fact that they just acquired 2Cs in 2 years, and still hope for Strome to pan out (maybe as a 3C?), they will most likely be looking for BPA on the wing to replace Domi's departure. Tkachuk, Zadina, Walstrom are all upgrades on Domi big time.

As others have mentioned, a "Keller - Galchenyuk - Zadina" line could be tremendous for them going forward.

 

[xNogaitx]

I wouldnt be hungry on that pick. I really think it will be 55th+ small add.

As I mentionned in another thread, I'm guessing it will be 55th + 2018 7th round pick

 

[The Great Weal]

Wahlstrom/Dobson/Bouchard/Hughes/Tkachuk are all fine "consolation" prizes for missing out on Zadina, thanks.

Great, Habs ensure their guy and Yotes seek for a consolation prize. Works for us.

It works both ways. There's no sense in giving up more, if the worst that happens is you force Montreal into picking a player you wouldn't actually consider at 5th.

Let's say the Coyotes draft list looks like this:
1. Dahlin
2. Svechnikov
3. Tkachuk
4. Zadina
5. Dobson

Why would they give up pick 55 to move up? If they don't have Kotkaniemi in their top six, it guarantees they'll get at least their 4th ranked player.

If we don't have Kotkaniemi in our top five, we aren't moving up two spots, we're moving up just one spot. It would be the difference between our 4th ranked guy and our 3rd ranked guy.

That's the point though, nobody knows what the Yotes list looks like. In fact, nobody knows what the Habs list looks like either, it's all speculation. First you said Zadina at 3, and now you say Tkachuk, nevertheless, it's the Yotes that are trading up to take their player in Zadina/Tkachuk. If they are considering trading up they up that means they value one or two players at 3 more, and if they know that the Habs will take Kotkaniemi, that means they value one player at 3 more than the other ones. Nobody is talking about who the Yotes have at 4/5/6...etc, if they are trading up to 3, they will take their 3rd ranked player.

I do think that a trade between the two teams can work. Yotes give a 2nd+ to the Habs take Zadina/Tkachuk, and Habs give a late pick to the Sens so that they don't take Kotkaniemi. Again, it depends how badly Chayka wants Zadina/Tkachuk, because if values one of them a lot, it's when considering to trade up comes into place.

In my opinion, nothing will happen, all three teams will just take their guys.

 

[rt]

Zona has mostly drafted Ds in the past few years (except for Keller) and traded for Ds as well. With OEL resigned, and the fact that they just acquired 2Cs in 2 years, and still hope for Strome to pan out (maybe as a 3C?), they will most likely be looking for BPA on the wing to replace Domi's departure. Tkachuk, Zadina, Walstrom are all upgrades on Domi big time.

As others have mentioned, a "Keller - Galchenyuk - Zadina" line could be tremendous for them going forward.

Disagree. Very much doubt they’re “targeting” wingers.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Don't think Coyotes offer their 2019 2nd....they traded their 2018 2nd and that's a sore spot.
Coyotes aren't that desperate to move up. Definitely not POJ, maybe 55th but not with 65th. Alternatively, a prospect like MacInnis or Capabianco..

Not the Habs problem. If you want Zadina, that is the price to pay. If not, we just take Kotkaniemi or Zadina and the Sens take whoever.

 

[AvatarAang]

I do think that a trade between the two teams can work. Yotes give a 2nd+ to the Habs take Zadina/Tkachuk, and Habs give a late pick to the Sens so that they don't take Kotkaniemi. Again, it depends how badly Chayka wants Zadina/Tkachuk, because if values one of them a lot, it's when considering to trade up comes into place.

In my opinion, nothing will happen, all three teams will just take their guys.

Why would ARZ give a 2nd to select Zadina/Tkachuk at 3 when they can just keep the 2nd and select Zadina/Tkachuk at 5?

 

[The Great Weal]

Why would ARZ give a 2nd to select Zadina/Tkachuk at 3 when they can just keep the 2nd and select Zadina/Tkachuk at 5?

Because they value one guy more than the others. If you read what I said, I clearly said how it depends on what Chayka values.

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

Why would ARZ give a 2nd to select Zadina/Tkachuk at 3 when they can just keep the 2nd and select Zadina/Tkachuk at 5?

what ? one of Zadina or tkachuk will 100% sure be missing at 5, might even be both.
I mean it's a low price to pay to get Zadina at 3...
You just had Galchenyuk and his father at a great price so I doubt Arizona will try to stop Montreal from getting what they want.

 

[AvatarAang]

what ? one of Zadina or tkachuk will 100% sure be missing at 5, might even be both.
I mean it's a low price to pay to get Zadina at 3...
You just had Galchenyuk and his father at a great price so I doubt Arizona will try to stop Montreal from getting what they want.

I know one will be missing at 5. What does that have anything to do with ARZ selecting Zadina/Tkachuk at 5?

You know what's even lower than paying a 2nd? Paying nothing at all.

So because ARZ "won" the Galchenyuk/Domi deal, Chayka should just bend over and give up whatever Bergevin wants? Wow someone tell Chiarelli he's got a lot of free passes from GM's that took advantage of him

 

[Habs Halifax]

Why would ARZ give a 2nd to select Zadina/Tkachuk at 3 when they can just keep the 2nd and select Zadina/Tkachuk at 5?

Depends. If they value both Zadina and Tkachuk equally and think the Habs will take Kotkaniemi, then yeah, stay put. However, if you want Zadina, you will have to trade up more likely. Either the Habs or Sens take Zadina off the board before the Coyotes pick. It's possible he is still available but the chance is very small. So if you are happy with Tkachuck, then yeah, stay put.

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

I know one will be missing at 5. What does that have anything to do with ARZ selecting Zadina/Tkachuk at 5?

You know what's even lower than paying a 2nd? Paying nothing at all.

So because ARZ "won" the Galchenyuk/Domi deal, Chayka should just bend over and give up whatever Bergevin wants? Wow someone tell Chiarelli he's got a lot of free passes from GM's that took advantage of him

one is better suited than the other. From what I have read Arizona need a scoring winger, IMO Zadina is better than Tkachuk and is a goals scorer.
One is better suited than the other to fill your roaster.
Also, Tkachuk openly said he wanted to continue studying in the NCAA so you won't have him for a while.

I really don't get your fuss. it's a low price for a consensus #3 nhl-sniper.

 

[Deam78]

No one can be 100% sure of that at this point though. Even if Kotkaniemi isn't a target for the Sens what's to say they don't swap with a team a couple of spots down to still get the player they want and the other team moves up to 4 a grabs Kotkaniemi before the Habs.

If the Habs have their mind set on Kotkaniemi just take him @ 3. That way there's no risk of possibly losing out on him from Ottawa or another team trading up and taking him first.

Let's say Colombus made a deal with the Canucks in 2016 to swap pick since PLD was the consensus at 5th and Puljujarvi was at 3rd. Then the trade between Habs and EDM would have happened and PLD would've been drafted 4th and Colombus would end up without the guy they wanted.

Something similar could happen if we swap with AZ.

This a great exemple of why the Habs shouldn't trade down if they're set for Kotkaniemi.​