TSN: McKenzie | O’Reilly would be absolute godsend to Canadiens

Discussion in 'Montreal Canadiens' started by justafan22, Apr 13, 2018.

  1. habsgirl5000

    habsgirl5000 Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2017
    Messages:
    2,520
    Likes Received:
    1,661
    Trophy Points:
    143
    buffalo has ZERO INTEREST in patches......they DONT WANT HIM!!

    they would have more interest in chucky......

    in any case.....from a buffalo point of view, the deal begins with our first and chucky +.....and that is where MB ends the conversation......anything past that is moot
     
  2. Tim Wallach

    Tim Wallach Registered User

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2007
    Messages:
    2,689
    Likes Received:
    1,481
    Trophy Points:
    139
    Location:
    Kitchener, Ontario
    I struggle with Ryan O'Reilly. He's a strange player for me. The eye test often says he's exactly what we need - big 200-foot centre with some offence.

    But the results test is iffy. He has been a #2 C on a couple teams with some other good pieces who have sucked hard. So what makes Montreal think that he's the answer as a 1C?

    I'd take him, but the word "over-rated" can't help but creep into my head. Proceed with caution.
     
  3. Skip Bayless

    Skip Bayless Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2014
    Messages:
    8,974
    Likes Received:
    3,512
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Yeah, but none of the stats advocate the type of players they are and the circumstances in which they played in either. Plekanec failed in the playoffs offensively, skilled players went cold on his line because he played a strict north south style with little presence along the boards, which in turn made it very hard for his lines to generate any type of offense collectively. He was a counter-attack player. He was very effective positionally and shut down opponents, but didn't necessarily take it to them offensively. O'reilly is the type of player that can make his line go because he's much more implicated physically both ways. The numbers wont say that, but if you watch both players for what they are without watching the stats sheet, you'd notice the difference in effectiveness offensively, which makes the whole difference because we're talking about two guys who are two way players in their primes.

    To me that makes O'reilly better than prime Plekanec. But if you chose to only look at the numbers, you're free to stop your analysis there...
     
    muzion likes this.
  4. Adam Michaels

    Adam Michaels Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2016
    Messages:
    26,261
    Likes Received:
    19,294
    Trophy Points:
    141
    Location:
    Montreal
    If they take on Moulson's contract (1 year at 3.975M) in order to sweeten the deal, it would take up a lot of cap that could be used in taking a run at Tavares. Unless Sabres retain part of his salary.

    Because if the cap only goes up 2M (hypothetical), the Habs would have 15.3M. Trading Max's 4.5M would give them 19.8M. Taking back ROR's 7.5M brings the cap space back down to 12.3M. They have room for JT. And even if they offer him like 13M, they are allowed to go 10% over the cap during the off-season. Moving some others out could help make the Habs cap compliant.

    But if they do take on Moulson's 3.975M, it makes it all a little too tight.
     
    Runner77 likes this.
  5. habsgirl5000

    habsgirl5000 Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2017
    Messages:
    2,520
    Likes Received:
    1,661
    Trophy Points:
    143
    LOL....maybe because he is better then any center we have had in the past 10+ years?
     
  6. Adam Michaels

    Adam Michaels Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2016
    Messages:
    26,261
    Likes Received:
    19,294
    Trophy Points:
    141
    Location:
    Montreal
    As a 1C, he'd still be an upgrade over what Habs have. As a 2C, he'd be as good as they get in the league. As for his teams sucking despite having good pieces. One thing that needs to be considered is that ROR did his part. Others around him underachieved.
     
  7. CHfan1

    CHfan1 Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2012
    Messages:
    1,890
    Likes Received:
    805
    Trophy Points:
    110
    They still have to re-sign Danault and DLR.
     
  8. Lebowski

    Lebowski El Duderino

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2010
    Messages:
    16,469
    Likes Received:
    2,958
    Trophy Points:
    156
    If all that you say is true, how come it hasn't materialized into tangible numbers over such a large sample size, and two different teams?
     
    LaP likes this.
  9. Adam Michaels

    Adam Michaels Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2016
    Messages:
    26,261
    Likes Received:
    19,294
    Trophy Points:
    141
    Location:
    Montreal
    True.
     
  10. LaP

    LaP Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2012
    Messages:
    15,750
    Likes Received:
    5,738
    Trophy Points:
    156
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Quebec City, Canada
    ROR definitely fits the attitude pr MB did. Would not surprised me at all and it would be an awful trade again.
     
  11. Skip Bayless

    Skip Bayless Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2014
    Messages:
    8,974
    Likes Received:
    3,512
    Trophy Points:
    112
    If Malkin plays with top liners while Crosby plays with lesser players, yet gets the same amount of points, what does it say about Malkin? Nothing.

    It's not all about points, intagibles often affect much more the dynamic of a team, which is way more important than the stat sheet.
     
  12. Lebowski

    Lebowski El Duderino

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2010
    Messages:
    16,469
    Likes Received:
    2,958
    Trophy Points:
    156
    So he changes the dynamic? That's his thing?

    How did it work out for Colorado and Buffalo so far?

    You can choose to ignore offensive production all you want. At the end of the day we're still talking about a 60 +/-5 points two-way center, and that's exactly what Plekanec used to be.

    And if Plekanec wasn't enough, there's no reason to believe O'Reilly would be enough.
     
  13. Skip Bayless

    Skip Bayless Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2014
    Messages:
    8,974
    Likes Received:
    3,512
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Did I say O'reilly was the savior? Or that he'd change the dynamic of this team? Both players, despite being two way players, are different players with different skill sets. If evaluating players based on points was the way to evaluate talent, we'd all be professional scouts.

    I simply explained to you why I think one player can be better than the other even if the production is comparable, but you're the one using points to evaluate the impact a player has on the game. We're not talking about a 4th liner vs a top 6 fwd here where the numbers pretty much sum it all up.
     
  14. Lebowski

    Lebowski El Duderino

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2010
    Messages:
    16,469
    Likes Received:
    2,958
    Trophy Points:
    156
    Right, so how much better do you think O'Reilly is actually?

    Plekanec was a low-end 1st liner. What's O'Reilly to you?
     
  15. Gomez91

    Gomez91 Fala!!

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2011
    Messages:
    563
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    46
    Location:
    Where I want

    This comment above means something to me? Why doesn't Montreal wait until July 1 where they can get a center or maybe two and go after John Tavares or even Paul Stastny. ROR is to rich of a deal for me if you think giving Buffalo Max or Chucky or anybody.
     
  16. Gomez91

    Gomez91 Fala!!

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2011
    Messages:
    563
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    46
    Location:
    Where I want

    Especially since you forgot Price's new contract kick in the start of next year I think?
     
  17. Adam Michaels

    Adam Michaels Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2016
    Messages:
    26,261
    Likes Received:
    19,294
    Trophy Points:
    141
    Location:
    Montreal
    Yes, but his contract is already counted on next year's cap. So the 13.3M in cap space I'm talking about is with Price's contract counted.
     
  18. Goodbahd

    Goodbahd Registered User

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2017
    Messages:
    652
    Likes Received:
    534
    Trophy Points:
    61
    Compared to what we have right now, yeah he'd be a godsend. However, we're not gonna contend with him as our first line centre. It'd be nice to land him and Tavares, that would completely change our team, but we'd still need quality wingers and mobile defensemen to compliment the centres. We don't really have any good wingers or any good puck moving defensemen. Petry is okay, but soft. Mete is still improving and who knows how he'll pan out. Weber and Alzner make a good first pass, but aren't really mobile. Pacioretty is streaky, besides he's not even here for the long haul. Gallagher is okay, but scoring 30 goals in a meaningless season doesn't really count for much. Chucky has the talent, like Drouin, but both not really consistent. In short, this team sucks and now would be the perfect time to trade everyone and do a complete rebuild. The owner just has to give green light, but it's doubtful that the quality of the this team is more important of the status quo and his profits. The only way this team gets the rebuild it needs and deserves is if enough Habs fans and media demanded it by asking questions and simply stop buying products, watching and attending games altogether. Otherwise, nothing will really change. We live in the age of the status quo and politically correct. Boring pathetic times indeed.
     
  19. Lebowski

    Lebowski El Duderino

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2010
    Messages:
    16,469
    Likes Received:
    2,958
    Trophy Points:
    156
    I don't know, I think wingers is the one area where we're not lacking. I'd try to move Pacioretty either way, I just don't want to re-sign him or lose him for nothing, so might as well get a few assets in return. Assuming (and that's a big assumption) you can land both Tavares and O'Reilly without touching too much of our roster players, Running Galchenyuk/Drouin/Gallagher/Lehkonen/Hudon/Scherbak/Byron/Shaw on the wing isn't half-bad. The depth is there, at least.

    On defense, I really like the Reilly addition. Mete should be a good one too, and Juulsen looked good as well.

    Alzner, hopefully we could move him in a potential ROR deal for cap reasons.

    Drouin - Tavares - Gallagher
    Galchenyuk - O'Reilly - Lehkonen
    Hudon - Danault - Scherbak
    Byron - DLR - Shaw
    Deslauriers

    Mete - Weber
    Reilly - Petry
    Schlemko - Juulsen
    Benn

    Doesn't look half bad to me. Another top 4 dman on LD would definitely help though.
     
  20. OldCraig71

    OldCraig71 Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2009
    Messages:
    20,882
    Likes Received:
    14,820
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Location:
    Yukon
    My friend that is a die hard Sabres fan tells me that ROR is the center version of Pacioretty and Bergevin has no clue what a center even is so he would take anyone he could get. Let's just trade Pacioretty for a great young prospect and quit playing the lottery with these project types.
     
    Runner77 and Tim Wallach like this.
  21. Skip Bayless

    Skip Bayless Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2014
    Messages:
    8,974
    Likes Received:
    3,512
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Lemme get out of your frame to give you my proper evaluation. Plekanec's role and his game changed throughout the years and he became almost exclusively a defensive player who could hurt you off the rush with his speed for most of his career. He had a good snap shot and always made high percentage plays (strictly a north south player with smarts). O'reilly has been playing in very bad defensive teams his whole career, but is solid in both ways of the ice, implicated physically, relentless in puck pursuit, has good hands around the net and in restricted areas, good in traffic and has a diverse shooting arsenal. I'd say Plekanec was better positionally and more disciplined in his own end, but O'reilly is a better offensive player overall. I know I pick O'reilly on my team and pass on prime Plekanec 9 times over 10 because of his ultra-softness and lack of creativity.

    The main thing that does it for me is that Plekanec's offense came from more individual and broken play for most of his career, while O'reilly is the type of player that can help a line be effective collectively and play a better possession game. And that's why I think he's better, despite having comparable numbers and in consequence being "low-end 1st liners™" in your way of seeing things.

    And to further explain my point, even if I believe O'reilly is a better player than Plekanec was in his prime, it doesn't mean I also believe he's the answer to all of our prayers or a legit 1st line C.
     
    muzion likes this.
  22. Tim Wallach

    Tim Wallach Registered User

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2007
    Messages:
    2,689
    Likes Received:
    1,481
    Trophy Points:
    139
    Location:
    Kitchener, Ontario
    Obviously I get that. The point I'm making is that you have to proceed with caution in terms of what price you pay as you'd be foolish to think he is the saviour. He's a decent piece, so pay for a decent piece, not a star price.
     
  23. Gomez91

    Gomez91 Fala!!

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2011
    Messages:
    563
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    46
    Location:
    Where I want
    Get rid of everyone instead of acquiring a Center not to say where was T Timmon's in the last 7 years at the draft table?
     
  24. TooLegitToQuit

    TooLegitToQuit Loyal Habs Fan

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2016
    Messages:
    29,250
    Likes Received:
    5,483
    Trophy Points:
    152
    Occupation:
    Civil Engineering
    Location:
    East Coast
    Not so sure we could of easily topped that return. We shouldn’t use hindsight evaluation at who Grigs and Zadorov are today. Back at the time of the trade, they were grade A prospects and the Habs didn’t have any. Scherbak and McCarron were not.
     
  25. TooLegitToQuit

    TooLegitToQuit Loyal Habs Fan

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2016
    Messages:
    29,250
    Likes Received:
    5,483
    Trophy Points:
    152
    Occupation:
    Civil Engineering
    Location:
    East Coast
    Would you of made that trade back when? Seriously?
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice
monitoring_string = "358c248ada348a047a4b9bb27a146148"