Mcdavid vs Hedman | Who’s Better Relative To Their Positional Peers?

[McRpro]

Lopsided result.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

lol. If mcdavid was in any other division this year we wouldn’t even be having this conversation. Scoring a lot against the worst defensive division in the NHL. Lol. Kane is better this season.

Kane is better than McDavid this season?

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

As lopsided as the poll is .. you still have to Shake your head at some of these takes. Hedman is your average star defenseman on a ridiculous team. McDavid is a transcendental player tilting the ice sideways everytime he steps onto the ice.

Wanna talk about bad takes? Calling the reigning Conn Smythe winner an “average” star defenseman.

This guy doesn’t speak for all Oilers fans and is giving Oilers fans a bad look.

 

[Spirit of 67]

Hedman.

You can argue the gap between the best and 2nd best at their positions.

The reason I chose Hedman is the gap between Hedman and 3rd place in my mind is much wider than the gap between McDavid and (maybe even) the 10th best forward.

And I've heard that there's a case to be made that Hedman is the best player in the league.
I'm not a huge Analytics guy but I keep hearing this isn't as cut and dry as some would have you believe.

 

[nbwingsfan]

LAPPING NOBODY!

Justin Williams can show the same picture...

I think this is clearly Mcadvid. Hedman has only won the Norris once while McDavid is about to have his third Art Ross with many more to come

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Hedman because I think there's a better crop of centers in the league than defensemen.

 

[Kamus]

Kane is better than McDavid this season?

Don’t ask him to prove his point... he will just cry and call you a nut job

 

[Future GOAT]

okay, please add any caveats you can for Hedman. He won the conn smythe as the most valuable player in the playoffs and is leading his team in points as a defenseman. I’ll wait. While you’re at it, you can also prove yourself by showing stats that show that McDavid is dominating his peers like Hedman. Your argument goes both ways my man.

Not that I care about your argument with Kamus, but to be quite fair, it's not a secret that Point was actually the MVP in that cup run and the biggest reason they won it. Hedman's Smythe can be viewed with an asterisk next to it.

 

[The Macho King]

Not that I care about your argument with Kamus, but to be quite fair, it's not a secret that Point was actually the MVP in that cup run and the biggest reason they won it. Hedman's Smythe can be viewed with an asterisk next to it.

Lol what?

Yeah it must have been that anti-Canadian bias.

 

[Future GOAT]

Lol what?

Yeah it must have been that anti-Canadian bias.

I simply watched every game Tampa played.

It was so blatantly obvious Point was the real MVP. Hedman was solid don't get me wrong, but Point was on another level.

 

[The Macho King]

I simply watched every game Tampa played.

It was so blatantly obvious Point was the real MVP. Hedman was solid don't get me wrong, but Point was on another level.

I don't really know why I'm engaging except for the fact I really don't want to do actual work right now, but this is asinine. First - Hedman's 10 goals was absurd, ESPECIALLY for this era. Third ever behind one of Coffey's runs and Leetch's Smythe run.

Second - Hedman's defense was second to none. He was a two way force out there. You can count comparable runs by Dmen on one hand in the 2000s (Pronger in 06, Keith in 15 are the only two that really compare).

Third - Point was great. Point missed games (left very early in some, missed two others). Hedman didn't. And Point was really good - but he did not have the responsibility Hedman had of playing 30 minutes a night and making Vasilevskiy's job ridiculously easy to the point where - despite only losing 6 games during the run and posting almost a .930, he was never a serious contender for the Smythe.

Hedman was our best player in the bubble and it wasn't close. That's hard to pull off when you have someone score over 30 points in 22 games in the playoffs and another guy score two OT game winners, but here we are.

I know watching an elite defender has been something Oilers fans aren't used to outside of Pronger's stopover, but the game is played in three zones, not just one.

 

[These Are The Days]

The only thing stopping Victor Hedman is if the Josi and Karlsson era has not come to an end. If it has, Hedman's competition otherwise is a bunch of upstart kids who cannot defend nearly at the level he does or a guy like John Carlson who can get points and still can't defend for shit.

Take it in for second and process what that means given that his Norris Trophy #2 is effectively unanimous halfway through this season.


He probably gonna play another 7 to 8 years because he plays a safe, intelligent game and doesn't kill himself every night. And he is becoming even more dominant than he already was.


Now ask yourself what the odds are that he doesn't win it at least 1 more time after this year?

 

[5 14 6 1]

lol. If mcdavid was in any other division this year we wouldn’t even be having this conversation. Scoring a lot against the worst defensive division in the NHL. Lol. Kane is better this season.

Care to explain to me why every division other than the North has more teams in the bottom 8 of GA/G? If the division is so awful defensively why is no one else putting up similar numbers with even worse defensive teams in their division?

 

[These Are The Days]

I simply watched every game Tampa played.

It was so blatantly obvious Point was the real MVP. Hedman was solid don't get me wrong, but Point was on another level.

Bruh

In the 11 game stretch between the Boston and NYI series this was Hedman's statline

8 goals, 4 assists, 12 points +15 shooting at a 21.6% clip and wasn't even on power play 1 or playing his regular minutes and was rather cut down to 27:38


Who was the last defenseman to do some ridiculous thing like that in the modern era?


The argument for Point comes from the fact he scored in big moments and that Hedman's level of play was unsustainable

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I’m a little surprised Oiler fans feel the gap between Mcdavid and Draisaitl is larger than the gap between Hedman and Makar/Josi but you guys are completely going off in this thread lol.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think the mistake in this poll was wording it as "better relative to their position". I think the poll of "which drop-off is greater, McDavid to Draisaitl/MacKinnon or Hedman to XXXX" would have demonstrated this point better.

People see "better" and automatically vote McDavid, which is actually what I did. But after reading the post, I think I'd vote for Hedman here because I think he's more better than the 2nd best defenseman than McDavid is better than Draisaitl or MacKinnon.

 

[Future GOAT]

I don't really know why I'm engaging except for the fact I really don't want to do actual work right now, but this is asinine. First - Hedman's 10 goals was absurd, ESPECIALLY for this era. Third ever behind one of Coffey's runs and Leetch's Smythe run.

Second - Hedman's defense was second to none. He was a two way force out there. You can count comparable runs by Dmen on one hand in the 2000s (Pronger in 06, Keith in 15 are the only two that really compare).

Third - Point was great. Point missed games (left very early in some, missed two others). Hedman didn't. And Point was really good - but he did not have the responsibility Hedman had of playing 30 minutes a night and making Vasilevskiy's job ridiculously easy to the point where - despite only losing 6 games during the run and posting almost a .930, he was never a serious contender for the Smythe.

Hedman was our best player in the bubble and it wasn't close. That's hard to pull off when you have someone score over 30 points in 22 games in the playoffs and another guy score two OT game winners, but here we are.

I know watching an elite defender has been something Oilers fans aren't used to outside of Pronger's stopover, but the game is played in three zones, not just one.

Calling a widely held opinion "asinine" doesn't make it so. I respect your opinion, but vehemently disagree with it. Without Point winning them games and playing like a man possessed, I'm not sure Tampa gets that cup. Also, pretty much everywhere away from HF insanity agrees Point should have gotten that MVP.

You can take that with a grain of salt, it's just there as a concept of how obvious Point's domination in those playoffs were to a majority of people. Point was more integral on an individual basis for winning Tampa multiple important games. They looked lost in the games he missed, and Point was even the favorite in betting to win the Conn Smythe for the obvious reasons to any non bias person who watched them play with and without him.

 

[Future GOAT]

Bruh

In the 11 game stretch between the Boston and NYI series this was Hedman's statline

8 goals, 4 assists, 12 points +15 shooting at a 21.6% clip and wasn't even on power play 1 or playing his regular minutes and was rather cut down to 27:38


Who was the last defenseman to do some ridiculous thing like that in the modern era?


The argument for Point comes from the fact he scored in big moments and that Hedman's level of play was unsustainable

It's a lot more than that actually, but we're kinda derailing the thread at this Point.

 

[McCombo]

You do realize career ppg tanks as you age? McDavid just hit 500 points the same amount of games Crosby did.

When Crosby entered NHL the amount powerplay opportunities exploded. In his first two seasons Crosby recorded 108 powerplay points. Quite a headstart there for the race to 500 points.

Voted McDavid. Before the season it would have been a really close one, but McDavid has separated himself again from MacKinnon.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Hedman is the best defenceman in the game, but the only reason he’s the runaway Norris favourite is because Makar got hurt.

He missed the cupcake portion of the Avs schedule. Had he been healthy he’d absolutely be in the Norris convo with Hedman right now.

There’s no such competition taking place for the Hart trophy this season.

 

[The Macho King]

Calling a widely held opinion "asinine" doesn't make it so. I respect your opinion, but vehemently disagree with it. Without Point winning them games and playing like a man possessed, I'm not sure Tampa gets that cup. Also, pretty much everywhere away from HF insanity agrees Point should have gotten that MVP.

You can take that with a grain of salt, it's just there as a concept of how obvious Point's domination in those playoffs were to a majority of people. Point was more integral on an individual basis for winning Tampa multiple important games. They looked lost in the games he missed, and Point was even the favorite in betting to win the Conn Smythe for the obvious reasons to any non bias person who watched them play with and without him.

Without Gourde playing great we don't win that Cup. Without Vasilevskiy playing great we don't win that Cup. Without McDonagh and Sergachev playing great we don't win that Cup. And most obviously - without Kucherov playing great we don't win that Cup.

There are 20 guys on the roster on any given night, and on those nights they are all put in high leverage situations where if they falter it could mean defeat. You don't win the Cup on the backs of one or two people - a fact that will continue to haunt the Oilers until the front office gets it's shit together.

 

[67 others]

lol. If mcdavid was in any other division this year we wouldn’t even be having this conversation. Scoring a lot against the worst defensive division in the NHL. Lol. Kane is better this season.

How are we the worst division up here in Canada? Ottawa sucks very bad yes. After that, you have plenty of bad teams nearly as bad in the states.

Vancouver is 2nd in Goals against with 111 in 35 games. But Canada has missed 0 games due to covid. So teams like Detroit and Columbus with their 103 and 104 goals against in 32 games are right up there with them. Freaking Patrick kane scored 20 points in 12 games against those 2 teams. Chicago itself is a bad defensive team with 106 goals against in 32 games lol.

Should we even talk about Buffalo? Nashville, Philly, St Louis and San jose and Anaheim? all on that playing field too?

The problem is most of the best scorers are stuck up here. If they were playing down south they would be lighting up all those teams too.

ill be the first to admit Winnipeg probably has the worst defense in hockey. Fortunately they have one of the best goalies in hockey. It takes a special talent to keep winning games and having a middle of the pack Goals against when 7th D plug guys like Demelo and beaulieu are getting top pairing time with Morrisey

 

[Future GOAT]

Without Gourde playing great we don't win that Cup. Without Vasilevskiy playing great we don't win that Cup. Without McDonagh and Sergachev playing great we don't win that Cup. And most obviously - without Kucherov playing great we don't win that Cup.

There are 20 guys on the roster on any given night, and on those nights they are all put in high leverage situations where if they falter it could mean defeat. You don't win the Cup on the backs of one or two people - a fact that will continue to haunt the Oilers until the front office gets it's shit together.

This wasn't necessary. Anyway's I think it's time we get back on topic. There's only so much leeway for derailment.

 

[Five Alarm Fire]

Calling a widely held opinion "asinine" doesn't make it so. I respect your opinion, but vehemently disagree with it. Without Point winning them games and playing like a man possessed, I'm not sure Tampa gets that cup. Also, pretty much everywhere away from HF insanity agrees Point should have gotten that MVP.

You can take that with a grain of salt, it's just there as a concept of how obvious Point's domination in those playoffs were to a majority of people. Point was more integral on an individual basis for winning Tampa multiple important games. They looked lost in the games he missed, and Point was even the favorite in betting to win the Conn Smythe for the obvious reasons to any non bias person who watched them play with and without him.

Without Point, it took Hedman scoring goals to keep us alive in the Islanders game. Think about how impressive that is, your top scoring defenseman is the one scoring pivotal goals when the rest of the offense dries up.

Hedman was the one putting up 60 minutes of ice time in the 5 OT game. Hedman was the one who had a rotating partner throughout the playoffs, it didn't matter. The splits for SV% when Hedman was on/off were insane, higher increase than any other player in the playoffs by far.

There is no bias here, we want Point and Hedman to both succeed. Hedman was just clearly the most integral player during the run, and pointing to the PHWA votes is just lazy. Anyone who watched every game of our run would agree.

 

[Future GOAT]

Without Point, it took Hedman scoring goals to keep us alive in the Islanders game. Think about how impressive that is, your top scoring defenseman is the one scoring pivotal goals when the rest of the offense dries up.

Hedman was the one putting up 60 minutes of ice time in the 5 OT game. Hedman was the one who had a rotating partner throughout the playoffs, it didn't matter. The splits for SV% when Hedman was on/off were insane, higher increase than any other player in the playoffs by far.

There is no bias here, we want Point and Hedman to both succeed. Hedman was just clearly the most integral player during the run, and pointing to the PHWA votes is just lazy. Anyone who watched every game of our run would agree.

Most people disagree. We can all agree to disagree, it's ok. Just know that Hedman's Smythe has an asterisk next to it, that is all. Back on topic guys!