Mcdavid vs Hedman | Who’s Better Relative To Their Positional Peers?

[McFlash97]

As lopsided as the poll is .. you still have to Shake your head at some of these takes. Hedman is your average star defenseman on a ridiculous team. McDavid is a transcendental player tilting the ice sideways everytime he steps onto the ice.

 

[Sweetpotato]

Hedman is a phenomenal franchise dman, Connor is a generational center.

As someone who loves me elite dmen....it's not close.

 

[Regal]

As lopsided as the poll is .. you still have to Shake your head at some of these takes. Hedman is your average star defenseman on a ridiculous team. McDavid is a transcendental player tilting the ice sideways everytime he steps onto the ice.

Hmmm

 

[CatchyTune]

As lopsided as the poll is .. you still have to Shake your head at some of these takes. Hedman is your average star defenseman on a ridiculous team. McDavid is a transcendental player tilting the ice sideways everytime he steps onto the ice.

gotta love those average stars.

Hedman is probably the best defenceman we've seen since Lidstrom and might be the best we see in a while. i dont think any active player will surpass him soon.

i think Mackinnon is closer to Mcdavid than say Pietrangelo is to Hedman. thats the point of the thread right?

 

[JoVel]

Hedman is the best d-man? Since when?

The past 5 years or so.

 

[Regal]

gotta love those average stars.

Hedman is probably the best defenceman we've seen since Lidstrom and might be the best we see in a while. i dont think any active player will surpass him soon.

i think Mackinnon is closer to Mcdavid than say Pietrangelo is to Hedman. thats the point of the thread right?

Some people are clearly overreacting without paying clear attention to the question or seem to think it means how good they are relative to the position all time rather than relative to the next best at their position right now. The question is highly dependent on the opinion of other players. We're in a bit of a low period for high-end defensemen and a good one for centers. If it was 14-15, it'd probably be the reverse.

 

[elitepete]

Relative to their peers its Hedman; McJesus is closer to Draisaitl and Mackinnon than Hedman is to... whoever the 2nd/3rd best d now are.

 

[Kamus]

Relative to their peers its Hedman; McJesus is closer to Draisaitl and Mackinnon than Hedman is to... whoever the 2nd/3rd best d now are.

Right now McDavid is 0.2 ppg higher then Kucherov was in the 2018-19 season when he was the Hart and Lindsey winner. McDavids season is historic so far. Hedman is fantastic but he is not dominating over his peers the way McDavid is. If so please provide a stat that is more impressive then McDavids are compared to peers.

 

[copperlion]

That was last year. The poll was fresh off a Cup win. Hedman's not playing like that anymore.

lol. If mcdavid was in any other division this year we wouldn’t even be having this conversation. Scoring a lot against the worst defensive division in the NHL. Lol. Kane is better this season.

 

[Regal]

Right now McDavid is 0.2 ppg higher then Kucherov was in the 2018-19 season when he was the Hart and Lindsey winner. McDavids season is historic so far. Hedman is fantastic but he is not dominating over his peers the way McDavid is. If so please provide a stat that is more impressive then McDavids are compared to peers.

I think most people are looking at more than just 34 games. McDavid had a similar stat line last year after 34 games (20 goals and 57 points) and fell back to a more "normal" pace. Even still, Hedman is over PPG while being a dominant defensive defenseman this year.

 

[avsfan9]

Right now McDavid is 0.2 ppg higher then Kucherov was in the 2018-19 season when he was the Hart and Lindsey winner. McDavids season is historic so far. Hedman is fantastic but he is not dominating over his peers the way McDavid is. If so please provide a stat that is more impressive then McDavids are compared to peers.

Kucherov didn’t get to beat up on the sens 10 times in one season

 

[Kamus]

Kucherov didn’t get to beat up on the sens 10 times in one season

So now you are adding caveats for McDavid can we do the same for Hedman?

your right Kucherov got to beat up on the sens and redwings since they played in the same division that year.

and I’m still waiting for a stat to show Hedman dominating over his peers like McDavid

 

[Kamus]

I think most people are looking at more than just 34 games. McDavid had a similar stat line last year after 34 games (20 goals and 57 points) and fell back to a more "normal" pace. Even still, Hedman is over PPG while being a dominant defensive defenseman this year.

Except last year he was playing after coming off an injury.... and then got reinjured during the year....
I love how I asked for a stat that shows Hedmans dominance over his peers like McDavids, and the only thing I got back was division he plays, and that he will slow down...

 

[copperlion]

So now you are adding caveats for McDavid can we do the same for Hedman?

and I’m still waiting for a stat to show Hedman dominating over his peers like McDavid

okay, please add any caveats you can for Hedman. He won the conn smythe as the most valuable player in the playoffs and is leading his team in points as a defenseman. I’ll wait. While you’re at it, you can also prove yourself by showing stats that show that McDavid is dominating his peers like Hedman. Your argument goes both ways my man.

 

[Kamus]

okay, please add any caveats you can for Hedman. He won the conn smythe as the most valuable player in the playoffs and is leading his team in points as a defenseman. I’ll wait. While you’re at it, you can also prove yourself by showing stats that show that McDavid is dominating his peers like Hedman. Your argument goes both ways my man.

I don’t think you know what a caveat is first of all... respond to this

McDavid
#1 in points nhl
#1 in Assists in nhl
#1 in goals in Nhl
#1 in even strength points
# 1 in even goals
Without him and Drai plays on a basement team
Relcf% 10.6 relFF% 9.8
Hedman
#1 in Dman points
#1 in dman assists
#7 in dman goals
#11 in dman even points
# 32 in dman even goals
Plays on the best regular season team for the past three years

 

[Albatros]

I don’t think you know what a caveat is first of all... respond to this

McDavid
#1 in points nhl
#1 in Assists in nhl
#1 in goals in Nhl
#1 in even strength points
# 1 in even goals
Without him and Drai plays on a basement team
Relcf% 10.6 relFF% 9.8
Hedman
#1 in Dman points
#1 in dman assists
#7 in dman goals
#11 in dman even points
# 32 in dman even goals
Plays on the best regular season team for the past three years

In your opinion the same metrics should be used to measure forwards and defensemen? In any case the first time I see someone using even-strength goals as an argument against a D-man.

 

[bov]

This is a good question, because I think Hedman is a very clear cut above any other dman in the game currently, but the same could be said for McDavid vs other forwards. That said, the latter has more competition and if you take MacKinnon/Matthews etc at their very best, they aren't far off. Gun to my head I might lean toward Hedman at this exact moment, but it's too close for me to cast a vote.

 

[Kamus]

In your opinion the same metrics should be used to measure forwards and defensemen? In any case the first time I see someone using even-strength goals as an argument against a D-man.

So show me Dman stats that prove Hedman is superior? As I asked before but still nobody can give me....

 

[BlueBaron]

Lol.

Neither one is much better than the next guy. MacKinnon has proven he is right there with better 2 way play and less ice time. Hedman is great to but could be passed or at least equalled any time now.

 

[copperlion]

I don’t think you know what a caveat is first of all... respond to this

McDavid
#1 in points nhl
#1 in Assists in nhl
#1 in goals in Nhl
#1 in even strength points
# 1 in even goals
Without him and Drai plays on a basement team
Relcf% 10.6 relFF% 9.8
Hedman
#1 in Dman points
#1 in dman assists
#7 in dman goals
#11 in dman even points
# 32 in dman even goals
Plays on the best regular season team for the past three years

Of course I know what caveat means - and I used it correctly in my statement. Please don’t resort to ad hominem arguments if you want to act like someone smart. Your stats also prove nothing besides “LUL MORE POINTS”. Do you remember when Hedman was injured in the playoffs and Tampa was swept by Columbus? McDavid at this rate might actually become the best player to NEVER win a cup.

 

[Regal]

Except last year he was playing after coming off an injury.... and then got reinjured during the year....
I love how I asked for a stat that shows Hedmans dominance over his peers like McDavids, and the only thing I got back was division he plays, and that he will slow down...

And? Injuries are a pretty common reason why players don't perform at their very best over larger stretches. We'll see if McDavid can keep this up, but it's still a small sample size.

Also the question is flawed. Defensemen can't be judged by point totals as easily as forwards and there's no single stat that shows player worth. You're making an appeal to ignorance. The fact that people can't show you a specific stat to prove your argument wrong isn't an argument in your favour.

If you really want something though, over the last three years, Hedman leads all defensemen in GAR with 40.7, 6.1 more than 2nd place Ellis. Meanwhile, McDavid lead all forwards in GAR with 54.7, only 1.2 above 2nd place Mark Stone and 2.6 above 3rd place Brayden Point. I'm not a big fan of GAR, but at least it attempts to put all factors of a player's worth into one stat that you apparently want, whereas point totals don't work well for defensemen.

 

[Kamus]

Of course I know what caveat means - and I used it correctly in my statement. Please don’t resort to ad hominem arguments if you want to act like someone smart. Your stats are also prove nothing besides “LUL MORE POINTS”. Do you remember when Hedman was injured in the playoffs and Tampa was swept by Columbus? McDavid at this rate might actually become the best player to NEVER win a cup.

So give me non point stats to prove your point???? I’m still waiting...don’t get mad because you can’t prove your point using statistical evidence.

 

[copperlion]

So give me non point stats to prove your point???? I’m still waiting...don’t get mad because you can’t prove your point using statistical evidence.

Your stats also prove nothing. Your argument is basically: “I’m right, Everyone else prove me wrong” and you back it up with irrelevant stats that add nothing to the argument?

 

[Kamus]

Your stats also prove nothing.

Your right... you saying something proves everything

 

[Kamus]

And? Injuries are a pretty common reason why players don't perform at their very best over larger stretches. We'll see if McDavid can keep this up, but it's still a small sample size.

Also the question is flawed. Defensemen can't be judged by point totals as easily as forwards and there's no single stat that shows player worth. You're making an appeal to ignorance. The fact that people can't show you a specific stat to prove your argument wrong isn't an argument in your favour.

If you really want something though, over the last three years, Hedman leads all defensemen in GAR with 40.7, 6.1 more than 2nd place Ellis. Meanwhile, McDavid lead all forwards in GAR with 54.7, only 1.2 above 2nd place Mark Stone and 2.6 above 3rd place Brayden Point. I'm not a big fan of GAR, but at least it attempts to put all factors of a player's worth into one stat that you apparently want, whereas point totals don't work well for defensemen.

Fair points... but then how do we know if Hedman is superior or by how far to his peers? what is his argument?

Also where do you get your GAR stats from?