Player Discussion Max Pacioretty discussion part VII: Maximus Decimus Tradius Valus

[muzion]

I've never known Pierre McGuire to be a source for anything...

Furthermore, to be a source of information...you actually have to reveal information.

Pierre McGuire, according to what you wrote, did not reveal anything.

People woudn't talk to him if for the past 20+ years he revealed his sources and twisted their words.

 

[417]

People woudn't talk to him if for the past 20+ years he revealed his sources and twisted their words.

If he doesn't want to reveal his sources - that's fine, I can respect that.

But then don't go revealing what your sources have told you, if you're not prepared to reveal the details of the information provided by said sources.

"Someone told me something but I can't tell you what that is...but OMG, it's HUGE".

It's classic Pierre McGuire.

Rumors are unreliable by nature, when you add this level of ambiguity to them like McGuire did...then they're pretty much worthless to me, not even worth consideration.

Again, I fully understand and respect, protecting sources...but also protecting the information and adding your own context to it.

Pass

 

[groovejuice]

Me, yes. Molson, no.

Also, I realize the struggles Bergevin has had in the last few seasons now. But thinking a new GM will fix all our problems is not something I believe. I don't care who the GM is, I want us to focus on futures and this is what we have been doing. Bergevin has made stupid trades trying to improve our team but he has not mortgaged our future. This is respect.

However, if Bergevin had a different circumstance in contract term left. I think he would of been let go this summer.

Why would you think Molson would do that out-of-hand? He certainly knows the financial implications. It seems to me that there must be another reason Molson doesn't eject Bergevin tout suite, because Bergevin's list of failures is longer than a donkey's
... nose.

He has indeed mortgaged the future by denying that windows exist and replacing young star players with lesser ones. Nothing is worse for this franchise than Bergevin and his foolhardy machinations.

 

[llamateizer]

When you over-analyse a shake hand to find some problems, you are looking for a drama.

Can anyone find any hand shake of 2017 golf tournament? no one cares.

 

[OB5]

Gotta get those clicks and subscriptions. Controversy creates cash. we are fans of a team that is driven by the media. They are the ones who create the frenzies out of nothing because they know the market will eat it up and they'll just end up with higher traffic and more money. That's what it has come to.

 

[Laurentide]

There's no big mystery here. Molson is cheap. He doesn't want to pay people not to work while also paying their replacements. He's still on the hook for Therrien until the end of this coming season even though he was fired over a year ago. If he fires Bergy, he'll have to pay him to go away plus hire a replacement and pay him. Sure, he can afford it, but he doesn't wanna, just like he could afford to pay Subban that $9 million per, but he didn't wanna do that either.

Just because a guy has the ability to spend a lot of money and just because he spends a lot of money doesn't mean that he necessarily likes or wants to spend that money. Molson doesn't seem to want to spend more than he has to in much the same way Charles Bronfman didn't when he owned the Expos. People get on my case when I accuse Bronfman of being cheap but that's what he was. He could afford to pay Gary Carter the big money but he didn't like it and he traded him to the Mets so that he wouldn't have to keep paying him. And when he saw where baseball salaries were going he decided to sell the team rather than pay what it cost to play. He wasn't too poor to compete; he just didn't wanna, same as Molson.

Cheap!

 

[Rosso Scuderia]

General question....

If you were in a coma for the last 8 months and had no idea about all of this Pacioretty/Bergevin "situation" and you saw this video.

Would anyone here find it awkward?

In all honesty, if you know the contect yes it is awkward

Your employee is hosting a great charity event for your organization and you can't even congratulate him after shaking his hand?

Answer me honestly, if we compare that handshake to any other handshake in the same situation where a hockey player is hosting a charity event, do you think the Pacioretty and MB's handshake is more awkward and expeditive than the others? I think the answer is obvious but just curious about your answer.

 

[417]

In all honesty, if you know the contect yes it is awkward

It's an awkward situation...he's at an event hosted by a player he traded a few weeks ago.

Your employee is hosting a great charity event for your organization and you can't even congratulate him after shaking his hand?

They congratulated him several times in the scrum...when reporters kept trying to diminish the reason why everyone was there, Molson/Bergevin kept reiterating that they were there for his charity, not to discuss his status on the team.

Answer me honestly, if we compare that handshake to any other handshake in the same situation where a hockey player is hosting a charity event, do you think the Pacioretty and MB's handshake is more awkward and expeditive than the others? I think the answer is obvious but just curious about your answer.

I don't think a handshake between a player from another team and a GM from another team would be micro-analyzed the way this is.

So the answer is no...I don't think that handshake was any more or any less awkward than it would be for any other player/GM in the same situation.

But again, I don't think this would happen in any other city...maybe Toronto actually.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Teams have done it before ...Ottawa traded away their 1st for Duchene.....Rangers traded away their 1st for Yandle and Arizona got 7th overall....Bruins traded Kessel to the leafs and ended up with Seguin.

Duchene, Yandle, Kessel, Sequin were all different circumstance in term left, age, and RFA control. I'm pretty sure the Sens don't make that trade if they knew their team direction they ened up heading after that trade. Blues traded two 1st for Schenn. Schenn had 3 years left and the Blues were confident it was not going to be a top 10 pick.

Trading a 1st and it becomes a top 10 pick later on... not sure there are a lot of examples of this. Most teams put conditions on those trade now. Getting a potential top 10 pick for a guy like Patch who has one year left? Don't see it happening. If a team trades for Patch prior to the season or early in the season, they put conditions on that 1st.

 

[Rosso Scuderia]

It's an awkward situation...he's at an event hosted by a player he traded a few weeks ago.


They congratulated him several times in the scrum...when reporters kept trying to diminish the reason why everyone was there, Molson/Bergevin kept reiterating that they were there for his charity, not to discuss his status on the team.



I don't think a handshake between a player from another team and a GM from another team would be micro-analyzed the way this is.

So the answer is no...I don't think that handshake was any more or any less awkward than it would be for any other player/GM in the same situation.

But again, I don't think this would happen in any other city...maybe Toronto actually.

Well it shouldn't be awkward. He's part of this team. He's the captain of this team and he's doing this for the organisation. They are the one that keep saying that everything is well. And that's actually the point. It's obvious that they don't like each other. That that handshake was awkward as f*** and they didn't even pretend that it wasn't. That's why it's talked about all over the media. A simple handshake, small talk and we wouldn't be talking about that.

 

[417]

Well it shouldn't be awkward. He's part of this team. He's the captain of this team and he's doing this for the organisation.

That's correct - which is why they were at the event and reiterated that he's a member of this team and they expect him at camp.

They are the one that keep saying that everything is well. And that's actually the point. It's obvious that they don't like each other. That that handshake was awkward as **** and they didn't even pretend that it wasn't.

This illustrates what's wrong with fans/media...(no offense to you btw).

On one hand, you're criticizing management for pretending that everything is well...

But on the other hand, you're criticizing them for not pretending that things are awkward...

Which is it? Do you want them to act like things are good or not?

This ties into what I said earlier...it doesn't matter what the Habs do or don't do, public opinion has already turned against them.

That's why it's talked about all over the media. A simple handshake, small talk and we wouldn't be talking about that.

Yes we would be. We'd be talking about it regardless because there was a media presence there and they have to find things to talk about...things like handshakes.

Do you recall Pacioretty's golf tournament being covered by national media last year? Because I don't.

 

[admiralcadillac]

It's amazing how not two weeks ago people were insisting they wouldn't show up to his tournament.

Now that they show up, they tear through every innocuous hand gesture or social interaction looking to identify the clear rift between player and management.

Confirmation bias anyone?

 

[76]

Congrats to medias who just reached a new level of mediocrity, simply amazingly pathetic.

Also the huge C was so freaking ridiculous from Pacioretty's camp. It shows well about the situation and how Pacioretty and Walsh want to play the game. I keep hearing official medias saying Bergevin leaked the info that Pacioretty won't be extended and will be traded, that's just crazy. Everyone with a brain knows this leak comes from Pacioretty's camp.

Obviously Bergevin looks like he really doesn't like all this circus, and It's easily understandable, more even after the reaction of Pacioretty when a deal was on the Kings table.

With all what we saw yesterday, I only believe more that there is no way Pacioretty is starting the season with the Habs. I just can't imagine it.

My guess no.1 is Vegas. Theodore coming the other way. More pieces would probably be included.

 

[Laurentide]

In all honesty, if you know the contect yes it is awkward

Your employee is hosting a great charity event for your organization and you can't even congratulate him after shaking his hand?

Answer me honestly, if we compare that handshake to any other handshake in the same situation where a hockey player is hosting a charity event, do you think the Pacioretty and MB's handshake is more awkward and expeditive than the others? I think the answer is obvious but just curious about your answer.

Bergevin's behavior was that of a man who looked as though he'd rather be anyplace else. If anything, Pacioretty looked more comfortable and composed.

To me, it's like Bergevin is taking this personally. But why blame Pacioretty because you can't do your job? If training camp opens and Max is still on the team, that's Bergevin's issue and no one else's. If he wants to be angry with someone he should look in a mirror.

 

[Lshap]

I'm playing "**** the media advocate".

I mean you point a ton of cameras at 2 guys when you know everything that is going on and then you expect what exactly?

What other possible outcome could there have been other than it being awkward at at point?

Literally everyone that was there was waiting on them to shake hands and see how they react. Everyone who was there stopped doing what they were doing to focus on both of them, it was complete silence, the only thing you heard was the hundreds of camera shutters when they all snapped their million pictures for their morning headlines.

If you watch the video, Tim & Sid are saying "Bergevin should of faked it - start a conversation with him just for the cameras".

Does he really think if that would of happened, everyone would of been satisfied with that? Of course not.

It's an awkward situation...it was always going to be an awkward result.

It just seems like there's no winning for the organization at this point. A few weeks ago someone in the media reported they wouldn't even be there, so they got chastised for that...so much so they had to put out a tweet saying they would attend.

So now they attend, show support but now they're getting chastised for being part of an awkward situation.

They can't win at this point - and I understand they've put that on themselves so what with their poor PR, but a lot of it is exaggerated IMO.

This is just going to continue to ratchet up as the golf tournament approaches in a few days.

Well put. Media scrutiny is fair game and comes with the job, but for all their 24/7 coverage they extract only a tiny amount of concrete information. It's noise, packaged as news. The moment we pretend a staged photo-op offers genuine insight is the moment I hop off the bandwagon.

 

[Rosso Scuderia]

That's correct - which is why they were at the event and reiterated that he's a member of this team and they expect him at camp.


This illustrates what's wrong with fans/media...(no offense to you btw).

On one hand, you're criticizing management for pretending that everything is well...

But on the other hand, you're criticizing them for not pretending that things are awkward...

Which is it? Do you want them to act like things are good or not?

This ties into what I said earlier...it doesn't matter what the Habs do or don't do, public opinion has already turned against them.


Yes we would be. We'd be talking about it regardless because there was a media presence there and they have to find things to talk about...things like handshakes.

Do you recall Pacioretty's golf tournament being covered by national media last year? Because I don't.

Actually, I'm not criticizing the organisation for not pretending. My problem is that people pretending that it wasn't awkward. That the handshake was "normal". It wasn't.

Also, last year's Pacioretty's tournament wasn't covered because there wasn't rumor about the bad relation between the captain and GM. The GM didn't trade the captain weeks earlier also. Of course there was a built up by the media when the rumor that the GM and Owner wouldn't attend Pacioretty's event this year. It gave my spotlight on this year's event. That rumor I don't buy but the rumor about Pacioretty and Bergevin I do believe.

I also believe that Bergevin doesn't want to re-sign Pacioretty. When Price had a year left, MB had no problem manifesting his intention of extending Price.

 

[417]

Well put. Media scrutiny is fair game and comes with the job, but for all their 24/7 coverage they extract only a tiny amount of concrete information. It's noise, packaged as news. The moment we pretend a staged photo-op offers genuine insight is the moment I hop off the bandwagon.

If there was an HF Habs section meet & greet...

Believe me, it would be awkward as **** if I shook hands with a few folks there lol

 

[Laurentide]

These golf tournaments are nothing but photo ops to begin with. Sure, they raise money for charity but it's not like any shnook can just walk in there and play in the tournament. Participation in these events is by invitation only. It's technically a private event so there's nothing newsworthy enough to warrant the issuing of press passes to cover it. The public is not invited to participate so it should be of no interest to them and of no news value to the media.

And yet, these things are covered as closely and dissected as minutely as a Trump-Putin summit, so what does that tell you? They invite this kind of scrutiny on to themselves.

 

[417]

Actually, I'm not criticizing the organisation for not pretending. My problem is that people pretending that it wasn't awkward. That the handshake was "normal". It wasn't.

It's an awkward situation...what other outcome could there be, especially with the media sensationalizing it they way they did, other than it being awkward?

Also, last year's Pacioretty's tournament wasn't covered because there wasn't rumor about the bad relation between the captain and GM. The GM didn't trade the captain weeks earlier also. Of course there was a built up by the media when the rumor that the GM and Owner wouldn't attend Pacioretty's event this year. It gave my spotlight on this year's event. That rumor I don't buy but the rumor about Pacioretty and Bergevin I do believe.

That's my point - this awkwardness you're talking about is mostly media generated.

Of course, at root, a GM who just traded a player, meeting with that player a few weeks later at a charity event covered by media..is going to be awkward.

There's no getting around that. But there's really no winning for the Habs in this situation.

If they don't show up, they get shredded for it like they were a few weeks ago.
If they show up and keep it professional, they get accused of being awkward.
If they show up and put on a show and fake it, they get accused of not being genuine.

There was literally nothing the organization could of done yesterday that people wouldn't come away with the impression they have today. Nothing whatsoever.

I also believe that Bergevin doesn't want to re-sign Pacioretty. When Price had a year left, MB had no problem manifesting his intention of extending Price.

Agreed - that much is clear.

But that's his prerogative. He's the GM of the team, if he doesn't want to re-sign Pacioretty...there's nothing inherently wrong with that.

I'll also point out that a large majority of posters here want him traded too...

 

[llamateizer]

Congrats to medias who just reached a new level of mediocrity, simply amazingly pathetic.

Also the huge C was so freaking ridiculous from Pacioretty's camp. It shows well about the situation and how Pacioretty and Walsh want to play the game. I keep hearing official medias saying Bergevin leaked the info that Pacioretty won't be extended and will be traded, that's just crazy. Everyone with a brain knows this leak comes from Pacioretty's camp.

Obviously Bergevin looks like he really doesn't like all this circus, and It's easily understandable, more even after the reaction of Pacioretty when a deal was on the Kings table.

With all what we saw yesterday, I only believe more that there is no way Pacioretty is starting the season with the Habs. I just can't imagine it.

My guess no.1 is Vegas. Theodore coming the other way. More pieces would probably be included.

The C was there from last year.

 

[Dagistitsyn]

My guess no.1 is Vegas. Theodore coming the other way. More pieces would probably be included.

Theodore & Hague would certainly speed up the rebuild on defense.

 

[groovejuice]

Unreal deal that turned out to be. Shame they never took advantage of it and made the team an actual contender.

It's actually the wrong tweet. The current server delays prevented me from adjusting it before now.

This place is making me crazy with the constant issues.

 

[Redux91]

would of LOVED that trade with LA
it would of been a godsend
but not for us, not montreal
cant have nice things, not with this joke GM in charge

 

[417]

would of LOVED that trade with LA
it would of been a godsend
but not for us, not montreal
cant have nice things, not with this joke GM in charge

If that trade with LA really did happen, and we're all led to believe that it did.

It didn't abort because of the GM, it aborted because Pacioretty, as is his right, didn't want to sign an extension with LA.

 

[Redux91]

If that trade with LA really did happen, and we're all led to believe that it did.

It didn't abort because of the GM, it aborted because Pacioretty, as is his right, didn't want to sign an extension with LA.

yup , i know its because of pacioretty's refusal to sign a shiny new contract in a brand new home called "LA" no doubt
Bergevin put us in this situation.