Player Discussion Max Pacioretty discussion part VII: Maximus Decimus Tradius Valus

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Habs Halifax

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That's why context matters. 2M for a Kitkat bar, ya, that's ****ing ridiculous.
2M to buy out a terrible decision that is ruining your business...Ya, it might just be worth taking. Especially when you consider that 2M is a very small sum.
Molson is not taking 2M out of his personal bank account to pay Bergevin. It would be 2-2.5M taken away from the yearly spending budget of the business.
Factor in the fact we don't even spend to the cap, Molson has plenty of money to spend if he wishes to do so.

So do think that the amount of money that has to be written off ($2 - $2.5M x 4 years) is a non factor? Then also considering how much you have to pay the next guy? Sorry, I don't think this is the sole reason only but it's a big factor in Molson's decision IMO. I'm not buying that this amount of money is a non factor.

Molson is a business man first, not a hockey guy. This has been my issue with him as president. He thinks money first.
 

Kriss E

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May 3, 2007
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So do think that the amount of money that has to be written off ($2 - $2.5M x 4 years) is a non factor? Then also considering how much you have to pay the next guy? Sorry, I don't think this is the sole reason only but it's a big factor in Molson's decision IMO. I'm not buying that this amount of money is a non factor.

Molson is a business man first, not a hockey guy. This has been my issue with him as president. He thinks money first.
If Molson is a business man first then he has no problem understanding he needs to cut losses short and get rid of a poisonous branch.
But he doesn't think Bergevin is poison. He still trusts him. That's why he's still around. It has nothing to do with 2M.
 

Habs Halifax

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If Molson is a business man first then he has no problem understanding he needs to cut losses short and get rid of a poisonous branch.
But he doesn't think Bergevin is poison. He still trusts him. That's why he's still around. It has nothing to do with 2M.

Truth is in the middle. I do agree that Molson still trusts Bergevin but it also don't mean he would not fire him if his term left was less and he didn't have to write off around $10M and hire a new GM who would make another $10M in that same range (or more!).

Sorry, saying it has nothing to do with his $ and term left is not something I agree with.
 

Kriss E

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Truth is in the middle. I do agree that Molson still trusts Bergevin but it also don't mean he would not fire him if his term left was less and he didn't have to write off around $10M and hire a new GM who would make another $10M in that same range (or more!).

Sorry, saying it has nothing to do with his $ and term left is not something I agree with.
Do you think Bergevin is still here and unsupervised if Molson doesn't trust him?
 

Perrah

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Jul 2, 2009
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Did Pierre manage to mention

- which team was involved?
Or
- what the "substantial offer" was?

Knowing how McGuire carefully words everything, I'm going to guess no.

Which means a whole lot of nothing to me.

As I said earlier, I'll know whether or it he mishandled the situation when hes eventually moved and I see the return.

Until then, I personally don't have enough information at this point to determine that, either way.

Youll never know if he turned down a better deal than the one he ends up getting. Even in the Kings trade that didnt happen the only assumption that can be made is that their 1st rounder was part of the deal.
 
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Miller Time

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Sep 16, 2004
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One thing is for sure... we can't say he will get traded or not get traded for sure. A lot can change once the season starts. I'm OK with trading him but only if we get a solid return... willing to take it to the deadline and I'm sure that is what Bergevin is doing (like it or not). I also think there is a possibility he re-signs but it's going to take $7-8M AAV.

Hard to predict how this plays out and I think how our team plays this year has a lot to do with the outcome. Only a little over a month till the season starts now!

worst case scenario #1 -
Patches has a hot streak to start the season, MB feels the pressure to extend and signs him to a long term/high cap hit contract

worst case scenario #2 -
Patches gets injured and/or has another mediocre season, we trade him at the deadline for a mediocre return


saddly, with MB guiding this ship, those are the two most likely scenarios
 

Habs Halifax

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worst case scenario #1 -
Patches has a hot streak to start the season, MB feels the pressure to extend and signs him to a long term/high cap hit contract

worst case scenario #2 -
Patches gets injured and/or has another mediocre season, we trade him at the deadline for a mediocre return


saddly, with MB guiding this ship, those are the two most likely scenarios

I'm not worried about a contract extension. A 8 year deal at $8M would be too much though. A 5 or 6 year deal at $8M is not a major problem with a rising cap and no major contracts to negotiate on our team for a few years now. Patch has been a rag doll thrown under the bus and it's not fair. The guy is still a very good NHL goal scorer and he does a lot of good things out there. Yeah, he needs to show up in big games but he is not a terrible hockey player. I don't like him as our captain though I must say.

Bergevin is not likely to get the return he wants for Patch cause it's too much. I don't see anybody happy with whatever he does with Patch to be honest.
 

Lshap

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Did Pierre manage to mention

- which team was involved?
Or
- what the "substantial offer" was?

Knowing how McGuire carefully words everything, I'm going to guess no.

Which means a whole lot of nothing to me.

As I said earlier, I'll know whether or it he mishandled the situation when hes eventually moved and I see the return.

Until then, I personally don't have enough information at this point to determine that, either way.
This would be my guess too -- a whole lot of ambiguity hyped up into a storyline. Tantalizing words, but no content.

My biggest concern is in what direction Bergevin is looking. If his priority is trading Max for roster players we're screwed. First of all, we'll get far less bang for the buck than the long-term gain of trading for a top draft pick. Yes, I'm sure we'll get a good roster player in return, but he won't enough of an upgrade over Pacioretty, if he is at all, to move us forward and remain under contract for the next few years.

The second and more important reason we'd be screwed with a roster-for-roster trade is it punctures the dream of a proper rebuild/rethink. It would reveal the absence of any longterm plan and show our crack management team has defaulted to the monkey-ish repetition of the same win-now moves that crash-landed us here.

Basically, it would prove they've learned absofrikkinlutely nothing.

No team is trading away their top centers or their top rookies for one year of Pacioretty, so there are very few scenarios where trading for a roster player makes sense. The only logical direction is to capitalize on a playoff wannabe team and grab their 1st, in the hope they have a lousy season.
 
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Habs Icing

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worst case scenario #1 -
Patches has a hot streak to start the season, MB feels the pressure to extend and signs him to a long term/high cap hit contract

worst case scenario #2 -
Patches gets injured and/or has another mediocre season, we trade him at the deadline for a mediocre return


saddly, with MB guiding this ship, those are the two most likely scenarios

There's a worst case scenario #3. Captain Ready walks at the end of the season and we get zilch, nada, niente, rien, nihil, nichts, ei mitään, nic, nenio, niets, ikke noget, nič
 
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417

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Youll never know if he turned down a better deal than the one he ends up getting. Even in the Kings trade that didnt happen the only assumption that can be made is that their 1st rounder was part of the deal.
Also agreed
 

417

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This would be my guess too -- a whole lot of ambiguity hyped up into a storyline. Tantalizing words, but no content.

My biggest concern is in what direction Bergevin is looking. If his priority is trading Max for roster players we're screwed. First of all, we'll get far less bang for the buck than the long-term gain of trading for a top draft pick. Yes, I'm sure we'll get a good roster player in return, but he won't enough of an upgrade over Pacioretty, if he is at all, to move us forward and remain under contract for the next few years.

The second and more important reason we'd be screwed with a roster-for-roster trade is it punctures the dream of a proper rebuild/rethink. It would reveal the absence of any longterm plan and show our crack management team has defaulted to the monkey-ish repetition of the same win-now moves that crash-landed us here.

Basically, it would prove they've learned absofrikkinlutely nothing.

No team is trading away their top centers or their top rookies for one year of Pacioretty, so there are very few scenarios where trading for a roster player makes sense. The only logical direction is to capitalize on a playoff wannabe team and grab their 1st, in the hope they have a lousy season.
I feel the same way...

If he's holding out for a Pacioretty for Toffoli or Pacioretty for Coyle type of swap...then agreed, we are screwed.

I think the standard 1st + prospect (whether A or B level) is the type of return I expect and that he should be aiming for.
 

Habs Icing

Formerly Onice
Jan 17, 2004
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This would be my guess too -- a whole lot of ambiguity hyped up into a storyline. Tantalizing words, but no content.

My biggest concern is in what direction Bergevin is looking. If his priority is trading Max for roster players we're screwed. First of all, we'll get far less bang for the buck than the long-term gain of trading for a top draft pick. Yes, I'm sure we'll get a good roster player in return, but he won't enough of an upgrade over Pacioretty, if he is at all, to move us forward and remain under contract for the next few years.

The second and more important reason we'd be screwed with a roster-for-roster trade is it punctures the dream of a proper rebuild/rethink. It would reveal the absence of any longterm plan and show our crack management team has defaulted to the monkey-ish repetition of the same win-now moves that crash-landed us here.

Basically, it would prove they've learned absofrikkinlutely nothing.

No team is trading away their top centers or their top rookies for one year of Pacioretty, so there are very few scenarios where trading for a roster player makes sense. The only logical direction is to capitalize on a playoff wannabe team and grab their 1st, in the hope they have a lousy season.

Does MB really need to screw up the Captain Ready file for this to become a revelation? Everything he has done in the past 6 years reinforces that reveal.
 

417

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worst case scenario #1 -
Patches has a hot streak to start the season, MB feels the pressure to extend and signs him to a long term/high cap hit contract

worst case scenario #2 -
Patches gets injured and/or has another mediocre season, we trade him at the deadline for a mediocre return


saddly, with MB guiding this ship, those are the two most likely scenarios
Scenario #3 - (which I still think is most likely - although i'm starting to lose confidence in that) he gets moved before the season begins.
 

Lshap

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Jun 6, 2011
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Scenario #3 - (which I still think is most likely - although i'm starting to lose confidence in that) he gets moved before the season begins.
Very possible. It would be more strategic to wait until the season starts on the gamble that another team will have a key injury to a forward. Let Bergevin capitalize on someone else's desperation for a change.
 

NobleSix

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According to Pierre McGuire, Bergevin had a subtantial offer from a NHL team (likely the Panthers). A source told him he was dumbfounded Bergevin didn't take it, as the latter was dead set on getting a roster player back. He mishandled the Pacioretty situation big time.

I believe it.

"Yeah, dats a good offre Dale. I'll tell you what, ow about u jus trow in a little tiny sweetener and den we av a deal? Like, hmmm, I dunno, ow about dis Vincent Trochek guy? Yeah, jus trow him in da deal and I'll give yew Max."
 

crosbyshow

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Aug 25, 2017
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I think that Max will be move at the trade deadline and the we will receive....: A first round pick from a Cup Contender (Rank 22th to 31th)

A nightmare because I am sure that the return was a lot better last June from L.A and maybe some other teams as well
 

Censored Toad

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Very possible. It would be more strategic to wait until the season starts on the gamble that another team will have a key injury to a forward. Let Bergevin capitalize on someone else's desperation for a change.

I don't know if anyone else is as desperate as Bergie. Nor as foolish.

Clearly after just plain dumb moves... why not one more to add to the pile. Like I have zero faith he will do something logical or smart.

Max will get his money. He has the habs backed into a corner. He may love the city/fans etc but he probably doesn't feel love to a guy who fooled his agent in that first contract.... then to have MT bash him publicly about being the worst cpt. in a habs uniform.

Followed that up with this mess.

We either get a substandard return for max..... or we get nothing.

As other posters have stated... we are no longer looking at getting a proper return for max... its more getting what we can rather then nothing....
 

theghost1

Registered User
Oct 30, 2017
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If you are going to trade Pacioretty you trade him before the season starts to a team who could be bad next season and try and get a potential high 2020 1st rounder,if you trade him at the deadline you just get a late 1st rounder....the Islanders are a good fit they want to replace the loss of goals by Tavares and they could be bad in 2019-20.
 

Habs Icing

Formerly Onice
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Different time. Different team. Different needs.
Same GM with the same performance though.

That Skinner trade has me worried. If that was an indication of the market during the summer and MB decides to wait till trade deadline day, I could see Captain Ready laying another egg this season or getting injured weeks or days before TDL.
 

ZUKI

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Oct 23, 2003
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If you are going to trade Pacioretty you trade him before the season starts to a team who could be bad next season and try and get a potential high 2020 1st rounder,if you trade him at the deadline you just get a late 1st rounder....the Islanders are a good fit they want to replace the loss of goals by Tavares and they could be bad in 2019-20.
A team who could be bad next season doesn't need a Max Pacioretty and will never give a potential high first round for a one year contract player
 
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