Prospect Info: Mattias Norlinder - Part 2

[montreal]

With this covid season and him getting a feel for his overall game, I’d be happy if they let him play in the SHL for two years rather than rush him to NA.

I think he will be good either way but a more finished product of what he could become would be fun to see and by then the rest of the main club should be a lot better and he fills a massive need if he gets there

due to covid they may not have a choice or i should say it could be tricky depending on how the NHL handles it this time around. Last season there was the whole thing with Romanov and the others that signed their ELC's. We know Norlinder is under contract with Frolunda next season, so since he's not a 1st round pick he either has to make the Habs or get sent back but I believe the Habs must sign him before a certain date, which used to be June 30th I think. But the Habs season could still be going then if the season doesn't start soon and then how does the NHL handle the contracts.

Not saying it won't or can't be done, just that it's something to keep in mind.

hahahaha. It is true.

I do get it though. I do think many voice very real concerns. Certain ones are just so ridiculous that I can't believe they're actually not just trolling for the sake of trolling.

It makes all the sense in the world though to be hugely skeptical about even our top guys.

Firstly, The number of prospects that hit are just low in principle. So right off the hop. Then you have our abhorrent track record and that our top 5 actually has very real question marks. Caufield is just straight up tiny. Norlinder's pretty small too and got an OBSCENE amount of hype. I don't think I've seen a Hab prospect get the crazy player comparisons he's had in the last year. Romanov has offensive upside question marks. Really only Primeau doesn't have question marks (of course a fricking goalie. this curse will never end). Guhle's offensive upside is completely up in the air too.

As optimistic as I am, I'm even getting skeptical. We need this top 5 to hit BIG if we want to be taken seriously imo. It would just feel better if we had 4 top 5 picks we could point too that we were all pretty sold on. It would be a great credit to this regime if we could largely build a Cup core without that advantage (except that one year of course). Really hope these top 5 guys at least can reach their ceilings and they're as high as some of us are hoping.

We have seen just how hard it is and rare to find those Markov level blueliners. We stumbled into a top pairing LD, it won't be easy at all to find that again. I think Norlinder has a chance but it would be a massive steal if it actually happened for a 3rd rounder. That said the tools are very interesting and there's at least hope he could put it all together. For me he's the best hope I see in it happening.

Do you still feel that Norlinder has that #1 potential?

for sure

Has he ever had that potential?

yes. Named top prospect in Allsvenskan despite missing a chunk of time to injury, named to the Senior National Team at 20. Has high end offensive tools.

 

[Scriptor]

due to covid they may not have a choice or i should say it could be tricky depending on how the NHL handles it this time around. Last season there was the whole thing with Romanov and the others that signed their ELC's. We know Norlinder is under contract with Frolunda next season, so since he's not a 1st round pick he either has to make the Habs or get sent back but I believe the Habs must sign him before a certain date, which used to be June 30th I think. But the Habs season could still be going then if the season doesn't start soon and then how does the NHL handle the contracts.

Not saying it won't or can't be done, just that it's something to keep in mind.



We have seen just how hard it is and rare to find those Markov level blueliners. We stumbled into a top pairing LD, it won't be easy at all to find that again. I think Norlinder has a chance but it would be a massive steal if it actually happened for a 3rd rounder. That said the tools are very interesting and there's at least hope he could put it all together. For me he's the best hope I see in it happening.



for sure



yes. Named top prospect in Allsvenskan despite missing a chunk of time to injury, named to the Senior National Team at 20. Has high end offensive tools.

Yes, high end offensive tools but, also solid defensive acumen. Not to be overlooked. That's what lends him a 1st pairing D ceiling, IMO, whether he reaches that ceiling or not at the NHL level.

 

[SpeedyPotato]

I'll never understand people who shoot down young players, but I can understand why some would be cautious about Norlinder.

I remember Yannick Weber coming out blazing in the AHL. Picked in the 3rd round in 2007 (#73), same as Norlinder last year (#64), Weber played his D+2 season as a rookie in the AHL. Born Sept 1988, he started with the Bulldogs in Sept 2008 and garnered 16 goals along with 28 assists in 68 games. He ended up being never more than a 5th Dman, at best.

So, cautionary tale with a similar player, I'm tempering my expectations.

I really don't see similar players at all here, Weber never had the puck skills or the skating Norlinder has. That's why stats watching isn't a great indicator.

 

[Vachon23]

Do you still feel that Norlinder has that #1 potential?

Personally I think his celling his higher then Romanov and I think he has more chance to finish on a 1st pair then Romanov but I think there is higher chance that he dosen't play a game in the NHL

 

[JC Superstar]

I don't know why people go out of their way to bash Norlinder, Caufield and KK. All of them did/are doing well. KK came in during a season without even a training camp and many couldn't fathom he'd need a few games to adjust (before going over ppg...). I mean, no one's superman in these pro leagues. It's a big jump for Norlinder and he has to prove he can be reliable defensively in the SHL as a guy with a reputation for rushing in offensively.

They are just playing the odds: more prospects fails than succeed. On the other hand they would say thing like "somebody has to tell it like it is" and pretend their's is the courageous stance while they are really playing it safe.

Real courage is dreaming of better days ... wait, is it a prospect comment or a covid one?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Personally I think his celling his higher then Romanov and I think he has more chance to finish on a 1st pair then Romanov but I think there is higher chance that he dosen't play a game in the NHL

With me, Romanov's ceiling is Subban type and Norlinder's ceiling is Markov type. Romanov is closer to the NHL vs Norlinder and Norlinder has to start producing with production to meet up with his potential. Norlinder is a great skater with good offensive tools. We want him to be our PP QB so bad that I think we are pumping him up too much. Norlinder is not ahead of Harris at this point in time. They are on par. Norlinder has lots of work to do in his development path.

I said at first that Norlinder's ceiling could be a Markov type. Well, it could be Ghost type as well if he does not figure out how to be a force in his own end without the puck

 

[Habs Halifax]

Romanov vs Subban:
* Both 2nd round picks (early 2nd round type picks)
* Both produced well at the WJC (both 18 and 19 seasons)
* Both stood out in the eye test as dominate D men at the WJC (both 18 and 19 seasons)
* Both were solid type players in their own end as D men. Effective at both ends
* Hard to compare KHL vs OHL

Norlinder vs Gostisbehere vs Harris
* All 3rd round picks
* All great skaters with good offensive tools.
* All had a meh WJC when they played the only time at age 19.
* Hard to compare Allsvenskan/SHL vs NCAA

Norlinder is rated too high by Habs fans IMO. I love the pick and his potential but his production is lacking and it's not just this season. An offensive skilled skater that needs to learn how to be reliable in his own end. He's very far behind Romanov and might never make it. We are overrating him like we did with Brook.

 

[Le Barron de HF]

Romanov vs Subban:
* Both 2nd round picks (early 2nd round type picks)
* Both produced well at the WJC (both 18 and 19 seasons)
* Both stood out in the eye test as dominate D men at the WJC (both 18 and 19 seasons)
* Both were solid type players in their own end as D men. Effective at both ends
* Hard to compare KHL vs OHL

Norlinder vs Gostisbehere vs Harris
* All 3rd round picks
* All great skaters with good offensive tools.
* All had a meh WJC when they played the only time at age 19.
* Hard to compare Allsvenskan/SHL vs NCAA

Norlinder is rated too high by Habs fans IMO. I love the pick and his potential but his production is lacking and it's not just this season. An offensive skilled skater that needs to learn how to be reliable in his own end. He's very far behind Romanov and might never make it. We are overrating him like we did with Brook.

2020 Montreal Canadiens Top 25 Under 25: #5 Mattias Norlinder

You have it backwards with the Romanov Subban comparison. Norlinder based on his toolset makes a lot more sense for a comparison than Romanov. Orlov is more accurate than Subban based on potential and past production.

Also can you stop saying that Norlinder is not good defensively? It's simply not true. Take a look at that article and the talk in this thread by those who watc him. When he was first drafted, his defensive game was considered to be better than his offensive game.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

2020 Montreal Canadiens Top 25 Under 25: #5 Mattias Norlinder

You have it backwards with the Romanov Subban comparison. Norlinder based on his toolset makes a lot more sense for a comparison than Romanov. Orlov is more accurate than Subban based on potential and past production.

Also can you stop saying that Norlinder is not good defensively? It's simply not true. Take a look at that article and the talk in this thread by those who watc him. When he was first drafted, his defensive game was considered to be better than his offensive game.

Jeeze... Romanov will be a good one, but his game doesn't have the same offensive flair. Subban played the rover to perfection in 2009's WJC. Defensively, there are parralels between the two, but offensively, they're different players.

 

[Habs Halifax]

2020 Montreal Canadiens Top 25 Under 25: #5 Mattias Norlinder

You have it backwards with the Romanov Subban comparison. Norlinder based on his toolset makes a lot more sense for a comparison than Romanov. Orlov is more accurate than Subban based on potential and past production.

Also can you stop saying that Norlinder is not good defensively? It's simply not true. Take a look at that article and the talk in this thread by those who watc him. When he was first drafted, his defensive game was considered to be better than his offensive game.

We are far apart on this. I know Romanov's game very well. I've not watched Norlinder that much but I have watched fair amount of video and read into his game a lot. Norlinder is nowhere near as effective in his own end as Romanov. Not even close! Romanov is the real deal at both ends.

Norlinder has a lot of work to do. I don't hate him and I value his potential just like you do. But I feel we are pumping him up way too much. Just like we did with Brook last year. Norlinder and Harris are on the same level with me.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Jeeze... Romanov will be a good one, but his game doesn't have the same offensive flair. Subban played the rover to perfection in 2009's WJC. Defensively, there are parralels between the two, but offensively, they're different players.

It will be interesting to look back in a few years on Romanov's offensive flair. I think a lot of people are thinking back to back WJC are "small tournaments" and brushing that under the rug and then turning around and looking at his KHL stats where he was sheltered and his coach wanted him to learn how to play D first. Romanov has more offensive ability than he gets credit for

Norlinder was not sheltered in the Allsvenskan and SHL usage. People are going to assume this as me saying Norlinder sucks or he will bust. Not what I am saying. What I am saying is he is on par with Harris and we are ranking him too high at the moment. Just like we did with Brook. I'm not blind to his offensive tools (skating, shot, and vision). But I feel he has a lot of development to go yet and production is not on par with his potential. It's a lot of talk

 

[Dominator13]

With me, Romanov's ceiling is Subban type and Norlinder's ceiling is Markov type.

Goddamn, you'll be one disappointed fan if that's who you want to compare them too right now.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Goddamn, you'll be one disappointed fan if that's who you want to compare them too right now.

I understand how bold of a statement that is. But Subban (pre NHL) is where I have Romanov. It's undetermined what he does in his 1st season and from 20-25.

Pre-NHL:
* Both Subban and Romanov like to play Physical.
* Both are early ish 2nd round picks
* Both had great WJC in produciton and in the eye test (both 18 and 19 seasons)
* Hard to compare KHL usage at 18/19 vs OHL usage at 18/19
* Both have that "it factor" before coming into the NHL.

Comparables are there to some degree at development paths. I feel more comfortable saying Romanov is closer to Subban than Norlinder is with Markov. And I'm not a Norlinder hater either. Just feel we are ranking him too high to early

 

[Vachon23]

I understand how bold of a statement that is. But Subban (pre NHL) is where I have Romanov. It's undetermined what he does in his 1st season and from 20-25.

Pre-NHL:
* Both Subban and Romanov like to play Physical.
* Both are early ish 2nd round picks
* Both had great WJC in produciton and in the eye test (both 18 and 19 seasons)
* Hard to compare KHL usage at 18/19 vs OHL usage at 18/19
* Both have that "it factor" before coming into the NHL.

Comparables are there to some degree at development paths. I feel more comfortable saying Romanov is closer to Subban than Norlinder is with Markov. And I'm not a Norlinder hater either. Just feel we are ranking him too high to early

Subban had offensive tools that Romanov doesn't even have in his dreams. Romanov is great defensively and he will bring us a lot in a lot of part of the game but he's nothing special offensively

 

[Habs Halifax]

Subban had offensive tools that Romanov doesn't even have in his dreams. Romanov is great defensively and he will bring us a lot in a lot of part of the game but he's nothing special offensively

Sorry, it's too easy to say that cause we can use hindsight evaluation on Subban today. It's hard to rewind back to Subban (pre-NHL). It's also hard to compare usage from the KHL vs OHL at age 18 and 19. At the WJC, both Romanov and Subban were top notch talents at both ends of the ice.... for back to back WJC's too. It's a deeper context than just looking at points. Romanov narrative that he is limited offensively is flawed to me.

Romanov is closer to reaching Subban level than Norlinder is with Markov level. That's where I stand today

 

[Big Empty]

I'm higher on Norlinder than Guhle. I think he's going to be a real good player for us.

Overall these are our top 6 young players that shouldn't be moved

Kotka/Suzuki/Caufield

Romanov/Norlinder

Primeau

 

[Vachon23]

Sorry, it's too easy to say that cause we can use hindsight evaluation on Subban today. It's hard to rewind back to Subban (pre-NHL). It's also hard to compare usage from the KHL vs OHL at age 18 and 19. At the WJC, both Romanov and Subban were top notch talents at both ends of the ice.... for back to back WJC's too. It's a deeper context than just looking at points. Romanov narrative that he is limited offensively is flawed to me.

Romanov is closer to reaching Subban level than Norlinder is with Markov level. That's where I stand today

That has nothing to do with their usage in the KHL and OHL or stats. It's about tools. Subban was explosive he had great offensive IQ and he had a great shoot what Romanov doesn't have. Subban had difficulties defensively and his game wasn't enough mature what we can't say about Romanov. In fact I think they play a completely different game but they would be a great pair.

 

[Habs Halifax]

That has nothing to do with their usage in the KHL and OHL or stats. It's about tools. Subban was explosive he had great offensive IQ and he had a great shoot what Romanov doesn't have. Subban had difficulties defensively and his game wasn't enough mature what we can't say about Romanov. In fact I think they play a completely different game but they would be a great pair.

Nope, we disagree on this (pre-NHL). You said what you said and I said what I said. Neither one of us will change their opinion until we see more games on the ice. So lets bring this back to the Norlinder thread. This started with me saying Romanov is more closer to reaching Subban levels than Norlinder is with reaching Markov levels. I stand firm today

 

[Habs Halifax]

I'm higher on Norlinder than Guhle. I think he's going to be a real good player for us.

Overall these are our top 6 young players that shouldn't be moved

Kotka/Suzuki/Caufield

Romanov/Norlinder

Primeau

I'll be higher on Norlinder vs Guhle once Norlinder starts ripping it up offensively. Seen some others say Norlinder has just been unlucky in the production department this year so lets see more games then! Today, I have Norlinder on par with Harris

If you said Romanov was higher than Brook last year, some fans would have attacked that opinion. And this does not mean that I think Brook and Norlinder will bust. I just don't have Norlinder as a grade A prospect. Grade B until he proves to me he can produce to measure up to this hype and skills.

 

[Vachon23]

Nope, we disagree on this (pre-NHL). You said what you said and I said what I said. Neither one of us will change their opinion until we see more games on the ice. So lets bring this back to the Norlinder thread. This started with me saying Romanov is more closer to reaching Subban levels than Norlinder is with reaching Markov levels. I stand firm today

I'm just curious to see what in Romanov reminds you Subban offensively ? You talk a lot about stats but I want to hear about tools

 

[Habs Halifax]

I'm just curious to see what in Romanov reminds you Subban offensively ? You talk a lot about stats but I want to hear about tools

Drive and determination and having back to back WJC as one of the best defensemen (Passing my eye test and top level production). Hard to compare 18 and 19 year olds with usage in the OHL vs KHL but they both skate very well and play physical in your face style. Romanov's offensive stats in back to back WJC are no fluke.

"It Factor". Unmatched level of confidence. I'm usually pretty good at nit picking flaws (just did that with Caufield in his thread and now with Norlinder in this thread) and I have a hard time finding flaws in Romanov's game. I don't consider him offensively limited like some others do. Remember this right before you quote it in the future. Romanov is more closer to Subban's level than Norlinder is with Markov's. I'm not saying Romanov gets a Norris and puts up 60+ points for sure but I feel others will try to say I did

I think if we are lucky, Norlinder and Harris might end up like Ghost type. If one or both are better, we got very lucky! A 3rd round pick turning into a top 4D or top pairing stud? That's rare, very rare! Subban and Romanov were early 2nd's... also very rare to hit but happens more than 3rd rounders.

 

[Vachon23]

Drive and determination and having back to back WJC as one of the best defensemen (Passing my eye test and top level production). Hard to compare 18 and 19 year olds with usage in the OHL vs KHL but they both skate very well and play physical in your face style. Romanov's offensive stats in back to back WJC are no fluke.

"It Factor". Unmatched level of confidence. I'm usually pretty good at nit picking flaws (just did that with Caufield in his thread and now with Norlinder in this thread) and I have a hard time finding flaws in Romanov's game. I consider him offensively limited like some others do.

You still didn't answer my question but I will ask it in a different way. What tools offensively make you think Romanov can be special ?

 

[Habs Halifax]

You still didn't answer my question but I will ask it in a different way. What tools offensively make you think Romanov can be special ?

What tools? His hands, his feet, and his hockey IQ

Bolt statement and I know how it sounds on a hockey chat forum. But I also feel you don't quite remember Subban pre-NHL that accurately. Your talking about Subban after the NHL. Subban also started in the AHL.

* Subban is not a better skater than Romanov and vice versa (pre-NHL)
* Subban did not do anything more special than Brook did in the CHL.
* Romanov's KHL stats and usage has people confused.

When I look at Romanov, I see a elite level skater type, a guy who likes to play physical, and a guy with great vision. I don't think Subban's shot was that much better than Romanov (pre-NHL). I see lots of similarities on their development track. It's just the high level of confidence and the drive and determination that makes Romanov remind me of Subban. It Factor is the same and both of them had great back to back WJC's. That's rare actually

Not so sure you are getting my point completely. It's not some exact linear comparison. It's more about the gap between Romanov and Subban vs Norlinder and Markov. Two physical type guys with great games at both ends vs two offensively gifted types who project as PP QB's

 

[Adam Michaels]

 

[The Great Weal]

I'm just curious to see what in Romanov reminds you Subban offensively ? You talk a lot about stats but I want to hear about tools

They seem like very different players. They both have swagger, but in different ways. The vast majority of Habs fans think highly of Romanov solely because of his WJC.