Matthews vs MacKinnon vs Dahlin - Who do you take moving forward?

[mitchthemitch]

Are you asking how many players his age have produced at a point per game pace outside of 7 games that look like they're an outlier at this point? Quite a few. There's a kid in Vancouver with a lot less experience putting on a show every night right now.

name "quite a few" players outside of McDavid who had 203 points or more in his first 207 games in the last 10 years.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

I don’t understand the rationale for Matthews in third here. Please explain.

 

[mitchthemitch]

I don’t understand the rationale for Matthews in third here. Please explain.

11.634 x 5

 

[VoluntaryDom]

11.634 x 5

I think people’s rationale is actually the leaf on his sweater personally

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Why's everyone forgetting that MacKinnon was hot ass garbage during his first FOUR seasons in the league, while Matthews was a PPG player his 2nd season lmao. "Matthews can only dream of reaching at this point"

Yes MacKinnon has been great for two seasons, but let's not pretend he's on a completely different tier unattainable by Matthews

Probably because it isn't true. MacKinnon won the Calder with 63 points his first year. He followed it up with 10 points in 7 games in the playoffs as an 18 year old. Matthews won the Calder with 69 points in his. If MacKinnon's 63 points is "hot ass garbage", so was Matthews' rookie season the same?

This above is the problem with some Leaf fans. The hyperbole used to either diminish the opposition or hype up their own players detracts from any actual reasonable points they make.

 

[OilCanada92]

name "quite a few" players outside of McDavid who had 203 points or more in his first 207 games in the last 10 years.

But that's my point. He came in as an 18 year old with a 25 year olds body so it makes sense that he would produce at a higher rate than the guys you want me to compare him to. However, look how many young guys have already caught up to him this season alone.

Marner is 21 and has 90 points.
Aho is 21 and has 81 points in 77 games.
Debrincat is barely 21 and has 40 goals and 73 in 77 games.
Pettersson is 20 and has 65 points in 67 games.
Tkachuk is 21 and has 76 points in 78 games.
Barzel took a bit of a step back this season but he was over a point per game at 20 years old.

These are all guys who Matthews blew out of the water as a teenager but they're all catching up to him.

Edit: and that's just this seasons U21 year olds. You want me to go back 10 years?

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

In this thread: Linear development is a fact. Every player in the league will follow the same development paths, therefore Matthews has to be the best one the single fact that he had the best rookie season...



Sometimes all you can do is laugh

 

[POVERTY]

Probably because it isn't true. MacKinnon won the Calder with 63 points his first year. He followed it up with 10 points in 7 games in the playoffs as an 18 year old. Matthews won the Calder with 69 points in his. If MacKinnon's 63 points is "hot ass garbage", so was Matthews' rookie season the same?

This above is the problem with some Leaf fans. The hyperbole used to either diminish the opposition or hype up their own players detracts from any actual reasonable points they make.

And what about the 3 seasons that followed MacKinnon's Calder season? Hot ass garbage.

 

[avsfan09]

If Matthews gets four more points this season, he would have as many points in his first three seasons as Mackinnon had in his first four. In 90 less games! The poll is asking who are you taking moving forward and while Mackinnon may be on a different level now, Matthews has utterly dominated Mackinnon's numbers after their first three years. If Mackinnon played in Toronto imagine the amount of **** he would have taken after his first few years in the league

Strong username to post content ratio.

had to!

 

[avsfan09]

And what about the 3 seasons that followed MacKinnon's Calder season? Hot ass garbage.

Can we please stop talking about Mackinnon sweet hot ass.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

And what about the 3 seasons that followed MacKinnon's Calder season? Hot ass garbage.

But you said his first four seasons in the league. So either you actually didn't bother to see how he's done, or you realized after the fact that MacKinnon's rookie year was on par with guys like Matthews and Marner's and you'd then have to backtrack because then their rookie years were also "hot garbage".

Either way, it's another example of a fan being over the top ridiculous to try and make a point.

 

[ThaTruth]

But that's my point. He came in as an 18 year old with a 25 year olds body so it makes sense that he would produce at a higher rate than the guys you want me to compare him to. However, look how many young guys have already caught up to him this season alone.

Marner is 21 and has 90 points.
Aho is 21 and has 81 points in 77 games.
Debrincat is barely 21 and has 40 goals and 73 in 77 games.
Pettersson is 20 and has 65 points in 67 games.
Tkachuk is 21 and has 76 points in 78 games.
Barzel took a bit of a step back this season but he was over a point per game at 20 years old.

These are all guys who Matthews blew out of the water as a teenager but they're all catching up to him.

Edit: and that's just this seasons U21 year olds. You want me to go back 10 years?

Marner plays with JT and Matthews has been outproducing him ppg wise for most of the year with Marleau, Kapanen and Johnsson. Those wingers that Oilers fans insist LD can't produce with...Matthews can, with Hyman, Brown, Nylander, Marleau, Kappy, Johnsson

Petterson's number have been sinking like a rock compared to the start of the year, his unsustainable shooting % is showing.

Why leave out that Tkachuk plays with JG?

Barzal put up 86 points behind Tavares, nothing changed other than Tavares leaving this year, Barzal still gets the same quality of minutes as last year, he even gets more offensive deployment.

Oilers fans are like a cancer lmao, y'all really believe the stuff you type as if it has no context whatsoever.

 

[Sweetpotato]

I have a dman bias so Dahlin, he's shown as an 18 y/o he's everything you could want for a dman and will be cost controlled for a while.

Then it's Mac vs Matthews and due to Macs contract and skating ability I'd take him.

Dahlin
MacKinnon
Matthews

 

[Canadiens Ghost]

MacKinnon
Dahlin (very close)

Matthews

That is who I would want going forward. Don't care who was better in their first 3 or 4 seasons, it's meaningless now. Martin St-Louis got his first good season at the age of 27.

 

[OilCanada92]

Marner plays with JT and Matthews has been outproducing him ppg wise for most of the year with Marleau, Kapanen and Johnsson. Those wingers that Oilers fans insist LD can't produce with...Matthews can, with Hyman, Brown, Nylander, Marleau, Kappy, Johnsson

Petterson's number have been sinking like a rock compared to the start of the year, his unsustainable shooting % is showing.

Why leave out that Tkachuk plays with JG?

Barzal put up 86 points behind Tavares, nothing changed other than Tavares leaving this year, Barzal still gets the same quality of minutes as last year, he even gets more offensive deployment.

Oilers fans are like a cancer lmao, y'all really believe the stuff you type as if it has no context whatsoever.

So Barzel's stats were inflated because he was playing behind Tavares?

I love that it's consider blasphemy to compare other young players to Matthews. On average, Matthews goes pointless in 1 of every 3 games. That's not elite level consistency.

 

[talitintti]

So Barzel's stats were inflated because he was playing behind Tavares?

This apply to Matthews too? He's their 2c in terms of match ups.

 

[OilCanada92]

This apply to Matthews too? He's their 2c in terms of match ups.

It applies to Matthews if we're being consistent.

 

[authentic]

Probably because it isn't true. MacKinnon won the Calder with 63 points his first year. He followed it up with 10 points in 7 games in the playoffs as an 18 year old. Matthews won the Calder with 69 points in his. If MacKinnon's 63 points is "hot ass garbage", so was Matthews' rookie season the same?

This above is the problem with some Leaf fans. The hyperbole used to either diminish the opposition or hype up their own players detracts from any actual reasonable points they make.

With some Leaf fans, or fans on this board in general?

 

[Mac2Rants]

Wasn't even going to bother with this crap, but
Mack/Dahlin
Matthews

 

[Not Sure]

well he did finish 2nd in goals as a rookie if you want to look only at what players actually did. Dahlin has an unreal ceiling, but he's really not shown anything like that so far

Dahlin is going to finish second in points for an 18 year old defenseman, all time.

 

[OilCanada92]

Dahlin is going to finish second in points for an 18 year old defenseman, all time.

And if Dahlin played for the Leafs, he'd be Bobby Orr.

 

[mitchthemitch]

But that's my point. He came in as an 18 year old with a 25 year olds body so it makes sense that he would produce at a higher rate than the guys you want me to compare him to. However, look how many young guys have already caught up to him this season alone.

Marner is 21 and has 90 points.
Aho is 21 and has 81 points in 77 games.
Debrincat is barely 21 and has 40 goals and 73 in 77 games.
Pettersson is 20 and has 65 points in 67 games.
Tkachuk is 21 and has 76 points in 78 games.
Barzel took a bit of a step back this season but he was over a point per game at 20 years old.

These are all guys who Matthews blew out of the water as a teenager but they're all catching up to him.

Edit: and that's just this seasons U21 year olds. You want me to go back 10 years?

I see your point. You're saying that Matthews is much more likely to reach his peak sooner than than those other guys you mentioned because he was further along in his development due to his size. But the fact remains that every year he's been in the league, he has improved. Went from 70 point pace to 80 to 90. His development in fact has been pretty linear. I'm not saying he's getting 100 points or 100 point pace next season but there's a good chance that he has not yet hit his peak, and will one day be the 100 point player that Mackinnon is right now, maybe better.
He's had a better ppg pace than all those guys except Marner this year, so they haven't really caught up yet.

 

[mitchthemitch]

On average, Matthews goes pointless in 1 of every 3 games. That's not elite level consistency.

Mackinnon, Crosby, Stamkos, and Marner all hover around pointless in one of three games. I didn't bother to check anyone else out

 

[Cleatus]

you just pissed off a lot of people

Why would we be pissed? That poster is just embarassing himself like he does in every Leafs related thread.

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

Matthews
MacKinnon
Dahlin