Confirmed with Link: Matthews new deal Pt 3

[Walshy7]

We're basically spoiled compared to many many many other teams.

and fans believe they would be able to get better deals and are therefore angry. Which is insanely stupid

 

[Nithoniniel]

We're basically spoiled compared to many many many other teams.

And so many are completely oblivious to it.

 

[SprDaVE]

And so many are completely oblivious to it.

f***ing Dubas ruining this team...

 

[LyricalLyricist]

We're basically spoiled compared to many many many other teams.

Like I said, it can still be a problem but it's one of those good problems to have.

From outside looking in I think the leafs will have to trade someone eventually or get really creative but doesn't mean they're suffer for it.

 

[SprDaVE]

Like I said, it can still be a problem but it's one of those good problems to have.

From outside looking in I think the leafs will have to trade someone eventually or get really creative but doesn't mean they're suffer for it.

This fanbase can be pretty blind that teams generally trade in order to fix a problem, whether the problem is good or bad. It's a cesspool of idiocy around here sometimes. Glad even a Habs fan seems to recognize it.

Too many good players and need cap space? Man what are we EVER going to do?

 

[dangomon]

Should have just drafted Laine instead, then we could be salivating over how his value is dropping by the day.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

This fanbase can be pretty blind that teams generally trade in order to fix a problem, whether the problem is good or bad.

Too many good players and need cap space? Man what are we EVER going to do?

The only problem is this insistence that you need to keep every single player in the core there.

Honestly, trade someone if you need to. Who gives a shit? If it makes the team better so be it.

 

[thewave]

and fans believe they would be able to get better deals and are therefore angry. Which is insanely stupid

Are you saying we got the best deals possible? Are you suggesting that Nylander and Matthews deals are the best? Is that what you are implying or are you just trying mock posters for being displeased with a couple shitty deals?

 

[Walshy7]

Should have just drafted Laine instead, then we could be salivating over how his value is dropping by the day.

When he signs a bridge for $8-9M watch the main boards erupt with how he "took a discount" "believes in winning more than Matthews". Ignoring he has been playing one dimensional shit all season

 

[The Podium]

Are you saying we got the best deals possible? Are you suggesting that Nylander and Matthews deals are the best? Is that what you are implying or are you just trying mock posters for being displeased with a couple ****ty deals?

Both deals were based on league wide comparables. Nylander I'm fine with, Matthews I hate the term. Overall though, Dubas didnt get bent over, he just didnt get a deal.

 

[Walshy7]

Are you saying we got the best deals possible? Are you suggesting that Nylander and Matthews deals are the best? Is that what you are implying or are you just trying mock posters for being displeased with a couple ****ty deals?

im suggesting some idiot on half boards would have got taken to the cleaners and thought they still did a good job. WE have 2 f***ing guys that wrote the CBA and people like you think you could do a better job.

Displeased is one thing, but all the posters saying things like "it should be 8 years at that price" oh really should it? you were in the room and knew Matthews would take that for 8 years? no none of you clowns do so shut the f*** up already.

 

[ImpartialNHLfan]

But that's irrelevant because he'd be getting over 13M on a 8 year deal. Some even said it was OVER 14M.

Matthews has been the best goal scorer in the entire NHL since entering the league. Those are extremely rare.

$13m/8 is only $500k overpaid which is fine. Stamkos was even more of a goal scorer and got 11.67% on a 5 year deal which puts Matthews at 9.67M for 5 years, so lets round up to $10m/5 to overpay a bit. There, fair deal for everyone. Instead AM is making $11.6m which is a 2 MILLION OVERPAYMENT!

 

[RoadWarrior]

I'm a habs fan but I've consistently said that even if the leafs are in cap trouble next season the players they have signed(minus Marleau and his NMC) have value. Kadri would fetch a lot for example.

It's a much better problem to have than my habs with Alzner for example.

The only player in the leafs who is grossly overpaid is Zaitsev who may be untradable.

Connor Brown is getting about 600k more than he should too but it’s not exactly a crisis.

However when you compare Matthews as percentage of cap to other players in his cohort he’s about 3 or 4 percent higher than he should’ve been. His AAV ona 5 year deal should be around $10M. Probably $12M on 7 or 8 year deal. Definitely no team discount there.

Horton, Gardiner, Hainsey and Marleau coming off the books are a big help going forward.

 

[Al14]

Well, at least Kane and Toews got their $10.0M AFTER winning multiple Stanley Cups. They got rewarded for PAST performance. Chicago hasn't seen a sniff of Stanley Cup glory since rewarding them, however, they have Stanley Cup rings ALREADY!

So, now our Leafs have given Tavares, and now Matthews, contracts with AAV north of $10.0M. Marner might not be far behind getting his $10.0M AAV. All of our star players have been rewarded even BEFORE winning a single playoff series.

I'm concerned that the money, ALREADY in the bank, will diminish any motivation towards earning FUTURE monies based on winning a Stanley Cup. I know, some will say they can earn even more money by winning, however, having the money ALREADY is one less motivation IMHO.

I hope our Leafs are not in the Chicago situation now, having to lose decent talent, because there's no cap room to keep, and pay, really good players. We are likely going to have to say goodbye to Kapanen and Johnsson sooner rather than later. Where is the cap room going to come from when Kadri, Rielly, Gardiner, Muzzin, and Andersen, need new paydays? Where is the cap room going to come from to sign Sandin and Liljegren when they are finished their ELCs?

Is the Cap going to rise enough that hard departure decisions don't have to be made?

We shall see!

 

[Walshy7]

$13m/8 is only $500k overpaid which is fine. Stamkos was even more of a goal scorer and got 11.67% on a 5 year deal which puts Matthews at 9.67M for 5 years, so lets round up to $10m/5 to overpay a bit. There, fair deal for everyone. Instead AM is making $11.6m which is a 2 MILLION OVERPAYMENT!

and which team are you a GM for with all this knowledge? to say $10M is an "overpay"

 

[Canadian Finn]

i read the first page of the first thread, realized the junior business execs were all sharing their professional opinions.

i'm assuming Dubas still needs to be fired, or have the junior business execs went back to their daytime job as plumbers cleaning sh*tstains?

 

[LyricalLyricist]

The only player in the leafs who is grossly overpaid is Zaitsev.

Connor Brown is getting about 600k more than he should too but it’s not exactly a crisis.

However when you compare Matthews as percentage of cap to other players in his cohort he’s about 3 or 4 percent higher than he should’ve been. His AAV ona 5 year deal should be around $10M. Probably $12M on 7 or 8 year deal. Definitely no team discount there.

No discount but sometimes you have no choice.

In Montreal Price saved the habs for years then negotiating time he basically had blank cheque.

Matthews knows the rebuild and future is centered around him, he knows his leverage and it helps he's a pretty damn good player. The leafs weren't going to go into a dispute with him, especially not after Nylander.

 

[ImpartialNHLfan]

open to it for more money? what is so hard to understand here? Matthews wanted ~$14M for 8 years that means we are gaining $3.3M each season for the 5 seasons and then we resign him. Why be so insecure about him bolting?

That was his starting price, Dubas could have started at 12m/8 and meet in the middle at 13m. That's how negotiations work.

McDavid got 16.68% on an 8 year deal. 15% seems proper for Matthews and on an 83M cap he should be 12.45M on an 8 year deal. We can bump it to 13M flat x 8 years and that's a fair deal for everyone, only a 5ook overpay.

 

[thewave]

im suggesting some idiot on half boards would have got taken to the cleaners and thought they still did a good job. WE have 2 ****ing guys that wrote the CBA and people like you think you could do a better job.

Displeased is one thing, but all the posters saying things like "it should be 8 years at that price" oh really should it? you were in the room and knew Matthews would take that for 8 years? no none of you clowns do so shut the **** up already.

I have no idea what is going on in the office. I have no idea how they are coming up with these numbers but I am smart enough to know that Matthews is not a good deal @ 5yrs x 11.6m. It's not a good deal and neither was Nylander.

 

[leafs in five]

And so many are completely oblivious to it.

this forum was also a lot more fun when Burke/Nonis were running the franchise into the ground. I think people miss being justifiably angry.

 

[thewave]

That was his starting price, Dubas could have started at 12m/8 and meet in the middle at 13m. That's how negotiations work.

McDavid got 16.68% on an 8 year deal. 15% seems proper for Matthews and on an 83M cap he should be 12.45M on an 8 year deal. We can bump it to 13M flat x 8 years and that's a fair deal for everyone, only a 5ook overpay.

Exactly and even though I don't like it, 12.5 x 8 is a better deal for us. It's 3 more years where you would expect the cap to be even higher which gives us better value. It's unreal what happened.

 

[RoadWarrior]

No discount but sometimes you have no choice.

In Montreal Price said the habs for years then negotiating time he basically had blank cheque.

Matthews knows the rebuild and future is centered around him, he knows his leverage and it helps he's a pretty damn good player. The leafs weren't going to go into a dispute with him, especially not after Nylander.

The leverage is that Matthews agent knows that from an optics standpoint trading Matthews is all but impossible for Dubas.

Average players don’t have that kind of leverage.

 

[leafs in five]

I have no idea how they are coming up with these numbers

worse than Nylander and his 11% overpay. We're talking about probably something like a 20% overpay on this thing. It's insane.

 

[The Podium]

Well, at least Kane and Toews got their $10.0M AFTER winning multiple Stanley Cups. They got rewarded for PAST performance. Chicago hasn't seen a sniff of Stanley Cup glory since rewarding them, however, they have Stanley Cup rings ALREADY!

So, now our Leafs have given Tavares, and now Matthews, contracts with AAV north of $10.0M. Marner might not be far behind getting his $10.0M AAV. All of our star players have been rewarded even BEFORE winning a single playoff series.

I'm concerned that the money, ALREADY in the bank, will diminish any motivation towards earning FUTURE monies based on winning a Stanley Cup. I know, some will say they can earn even more money by winning, however, having the money ALREADY is one less motivation IMHO.

I hope our Leafs are not in the Chicago situation now, having to lose decent talent, because there's no cap room to keep, and pay, really good players. We are likely going to have to say goodbye to Kapanen and Johnsson sooner rather than later. Where is the cap room going to come from when Kadri, Rielly, Gardiner, Muzzin, and Andersen, need new paydays? Where is the cap room going to come from to sign Sandin and Liljegren when they are finished their ELCs?

Is the Cap going to rise enough that hard departure decisions don't have to be made?

We shall see!

The cap has risen a lot since Toews and Kanes 2nd deal. I posted this a few times now:

If we estimate an 83 mill cap hit then this deal comes in around 14% of total cap. 85 mill would be around 13%.

McDavid = 16.67 (8 years)
Ovi = 16.82 (13 years)
Malkin = 15.34
Crosby = 17.3
Stamkos = 11.66
Toews = 11.09
Kane = 11.09

Not a steal by any means, but I am assuming that these were the comparables used by both camps. Matthews should have been closer to the Stamkos, Toews and Kane group which would have put him somewhere around 9.5-10 x 5 years.

This deal isn't far off of what Kane and Toews signed out of their ELC (6.3 x 5 years under a 56.8 mill cap). Not to mention Pittsburgh won with Malkin and Crosby both making more cap% than Matthews, as did Washington with Ovi, albeit not until year 9 of his 13 year deal.

 

[The Podium]

I have no idea what is going on in the office. I have no idea how they are coming up with these numbers but I am smart enough to know that Matthews is not a good deal @ 5yrs x 11.6m. It's not a good deal and neither was Nylander.

The numbers arent out of the blue, see below.

If we estimate an 83 mill cap hit then this deal comes in around 14% of total cap. 85 mill would be around 13%.

McDavid = 16.67 (8 years)
Eichel = 13.33 (8 years)
Ovi = 16.82 (13 years)
Malkin = 15.34
Crosby = 17.3
Stamkos = 11.66
Toews = 11.09
Kane = 11.09

Not a steal by any means, but I am assuming that these were the comparables used by both camps. Matthews should have been closer to the Stamkos, Toews and Kane group which would have put him somewhere around 9.5-10 x 5 years.