Discussion in 'Toronto Maple Leafs' started by Warden of the North, Feb 5, 2019.
All about values. People's values have shifted, from 'us' to 'me'.
Yup but that was really brought on by the "gots mine" (aka boomer) generation. So to blame young people is a fallacy.
I know what you're getting at, and i'm not 100% against the idea. But then i'd say that generation in general, was much happier with what they got.
i agree , Shanny always looked out for himself as has Babs so i don't know why anyone would believe the players should now take one for the team when no one else has
I don't know, seems a little bizarre this is thread number 3 already, I did not even look inside the first 2!
What's there to talk about?
Look at what Lebron James did at various stages in his career and his contract negotiations.
Didn't he opt out one time on a deal, just to make more $$$ on his next contract?
Nothing personal, just business.
Guess we get to watch Matthews play here for seven years, as that is the current situation. That is the window to win.
Window is open this year.
Will they win?
Right now, I would think the Leafs probably get bounced in the 1st round again. The forwards play too loose, not tight enough defensively. Then they don't score on a consistent basis. That is how you lose in the playoffs.
For sure we can point out individual examples. But I was more alluding to the general trend in society and where it came from.
I believe the general trend is younger people have seen there parents being screwed over and realized there's no loyalty anymore in the work place .
@HouseofBuggins You do realize that Lou has signed more contracts than just Zaitsev right?
Lou signed Rielly, Kadri, Andersen to steal contracts. And Lou's career track record on contracts is quite good.
One outlier does not mean he would be bad on Matthews, Nylander deals.
Its quite clear Dubas is getting bent over the table due to his inexperience.
Matthews got overpaid by at least 1 M and closer to 1.5 M. We paid a 7 year AAV for 5 years.
93% of McDavid AAV for 37% less term for a player who has no silverware aside from Calder. Remember McDavid got a Hart that year and Art Ross.
People were losing their minds over Andersens deal around here, actually.
Anf if you think Lou has never signed bad deals, go look at the deals he signed post 2004 lockout and how they turned out. HINT - the league literally had to change rules because Lou was burying awful UFA deals in the AHL (the whole cap hit could be buried back then)
If it’s all signing bonus doesn’t it mean his cap hit is 700k?
Because Matthews and Nylanders designed for trade structure...
I'd just sign Marner to his 5 x 10m or whatever he wants and then focus on the next 3 years to win and trade the expensive players. Pretty much have to because having all those contracts coming due at the same time will suck our cap to zero in no time.
Sign, 3 years of all in and then trade them off and attempt to restructure mid-stream.
No, total amount paid over the contract (including bonuses)/years =AAV
That's a little over simplified for cases like Nylander, but essentially how it works
Lebrun brought up a good point, the Blackhawks and Penguins both went with 5 year deals for Toews/Kane and Crosby/Malkin after their entry level deals.
This fanbase is funny.
1) Lou vs Dubas - Has Lou ever had to sign Auston Matthews, William Nylander, and Mitch Marner caliber players all in virtually the same year? Yes, he got Rielly and Kadri on steal of contracts, but they were not the players the were today, and not the caliber the "Big three" are. Why didn't Lou sign Nylander?
2) 5 years vs 8 years on Matthew's deal: Clearly they valued flexibility over term. Bob Mackenzie and co said it was rumoured that Matthews' camp asked for 13 - 14M. That extra 2.5M could be the difference between a guy like Kapanen or an AHL player. Also, what is to say Matthews will not resign after the 5 years? If he didn't want to play for Toronto, he would not have signed a 5 year deal. Would you rather have a huge contract at 8 years from ages 29 - 37? Or from 26 - 34? Is he going to be worth the 14, 15M at 35 - 37?
3) The cap is going up. Should be able to surround Matthews and co with a strong supporting cast (unlike Edmonton has done to McDavid's supposed discount)
It seems people want superstar players for 6M x 8 years. It's just not going to happen. Crosby, Toews, Stamkos, etc took 5 year deals. Who knows? What if Matthews gets Savard-ed? I seriously think if the Leafs were to win a cup, many people would still be talking about how the Leafs are going to fit Muzzin, Rielly, Gardiner 2.0, etc.
Nothing is a guarantee so I'm not saying Lou would have 100% gotten a better deal but his experience and track record tells me chances of getting a better deal with him was much higher.
Point is he signed more good deals than bad.
Whatever he did with old CBA was done with the loophole in mind. So yes, he took advantage of the system, while getting penalized for the Kovalchuk deal.
Leaving critical long term extensions for the franchise pillars with an inexperienced GM is a mistake IMO.
Lou had 10 months to sign Nylander and didnt do it.
Listening to Dubas at the 11 minute mark, it's obvious Matthews camp wanted a longer term deal. The AAV obviously was the sticking point, but I find it disappointing that it was actually our side that brought down the years, couldn't make it work longer. It was an interesting moment.
Man got more money on his entry level RFA contract than Tavares did on his UFA contract. I wonder what he asks for after 5 years, 15-20mil?
It was just getting interesting when he left to be honest. I don't hold him at all responsible on that score. There was no push or shove, no pressure points. Nylander is solely on Dubas.
It's very conceivable that the entire approach teams take to star players will be completely different at that time. UFA players may be more attractive and contracts that are 4-5 years in may be more the thing. You may even have a more mercenary type team structure. It's really hard to say, but also very possible that AM is not a Leafs player even entering into year 5 of that contract.
After ALL the spin and lies by the propagandists.... it's exactly as leaf fan realists thought it would be. These overpayments have created a TON of drama, as shown by Marners agent.
These "Rookie Dubas got played" threads are getting tired.
Clearly times are a'changin in the NHL, McJesus set the bar, look no further than Eichel.
It is easy to argue our young high paid studs havent won anything, but as a long time fan I feel alot closer than in alot of previous years. I have no problem paying 4-5 very good players, mostly young with room to grow.
Most every media outlet and chatroom expected this was about the number, many said alot higher.
Just getting tired of online geniuses (ok mostly haters on the main forum) predicting doom and gloom, when we have been thrust into the new FA world with a storm of young RFA talent all at the same time.
I think overall we are doing about right and Nobody in hockey Lou or otherwise could do much better based on current climate and our young guys numbers.
We're at the point where this dramatic overpayment has created drama not just with fans, but now with our other superstars agent.
And the propagandists are STILL in denial...
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