Rumor: Matthews and Leafs discussing contract (mod post #605)

[yababy]

Hopefully Nylander and Marner will also look at Tavares' example and do the same

Tavares is an overpayment. He might earn the money in the first few years, but during the remaining 3 Leafs will regret that monster deal

 

[yababy]

Tampa bay is bikinis and palm trees, Toronto is snow and slush, you can't compare the two, it doesn't work, very bad comparisson, player take less to play there and end up making more. Forget Tampa.

Isn't Matthews from Palm trees and bikinis rather than snow and slush?

 

[FiveFourteenSixOne]

Isn't Matthews from Palm trees and bikinis rather than snow and slush?

More like rocks and sand than palm trees and bikinis...

 

[yababy]

Is really no surprise that I've never even heard of taxes being a concern for players deciding where to play up until the last couple of years.

Because until the last couple of years the 2 Florida teams were not locking up star players to bargain contracts. I suspect it might be the tax breaks but only those players themselves know

 

[Legion34]

No, I don't think so. AM and his agent will be looking at the market, and the cap increases going forward, not current comparables (there pretty much are none - AM is in a unique situation), or past signings. There is no realistic package that would replace his value to the Leafs. They aren't going to let him go over a couple million AAV difference, even if they thought 14M, for example, is too high. It would leave a black mark on the franchise. Again, they will pay what he asks. My prediction is 13M AAV, 8 years. To me, him asking that is reasonable when you take everything into consideration.

Well you are obviously wrong. You forget
That Matthews and mcdavid have the same agency.

McDavid signed for 12.5. He is the flagship of the NHL and their golden goose. Matthews could end up second.

No agency in the world is going to let their second best asset get paid more than their first one year apart. Will never happen.

Mcdavid is more important to Orr than Matthews to the leafs

 

[wc17]

Well you are obviously wrong. You forget
That Matthews and mcdavid have the same agency.

McDavid signed for 12.5. He is the flagship of the NHL and their golden goose. Matthews could end up second.

No agency in the world is going to let their second best asset get paid more than their first one year apart. Will never happen.

Mcdavid is more important to Orr than Matthews to the leafs

BUT BUT BUT Matthews isnt in the same situation! (hes in the exact same situation, with less stats and trophies)...comparables dont matter! (theyve mattered to every player whos ever negotiated a contract)...Salaries have increased in the LAST YEAR (lol, no they havent! The cap has just increased)...Toronto is a different market! (yeah, its turning into one of the best markets/organizations in the league!)...etc etc etc.

So many reasons to sign for more than McDavid! No good reasons...but theres many bad ones!

 

[Kamiccolo]

He's a good play and he'll get paid. Then the spin will start, same as with every signing.

I agree. After being told in this thread he would get 12+ AAV, when he signs for 11M or less, the spin will start that people never said that, and that he was always work under 11, and he didn't take a discount.

Just like with Tavares.

 

[Eat The Rich]

Because until the last couple of years the 2 Florida teams were not locking up star players to bargain contracts. I suspect it might be the tax breaks but only those players themselves know

Well, exactly.

We can all think and speculate that's why it is, but it doesn't explain why Florida teams in every other major sport are terrible. Texas teams in every other major sport are average at best. The stars are middle of the pack. I'm pretty sure Tampa is the only powerhouse team in a tax-free state right now. All of a sudden, income tax is the cornerstone of contract negotiations?

All of these other teams in tax-free areas exist, yet California and New York teams usually end up with all the talent in other sports. Only in the NHL does a team based in Florida attract top Free Agents. There's nothing to it. Tax law is way too complicated for it to have any significant impact on negotiations.

Until I'm convinced otherwise, I don't believe taxes have anything to do with it.

 

[Legion34]

Well, exactly.

We can all think and speculate that's why it is, but it doesn't explain why Florida teams in every other major sport are terrible. Texas teams in every other major sport are average at best. The stars are middle of the pack. I'm pretty sure Tampa is the only powerhouse team in a tax-free state right now. All of a sudden, income tax is the cornerstone of contract negotiations?

All of these other teams in tax-free areas exist, yet California and New York teams usually end up with all the talent in other sports. Only in the NHL does a team based in Florida attract top Free Agents. There's nothing to it. Tax law is way too complicated for it to have any significant impact on negotiations.

Until I'm convinced otherwise, I don't believe taxes have anything to do with it.

Because the NHL has a hard cap?

If it was a soft cap the big teams in the NHL could pay more to catch up

 

[jrgtml67]

Cant believe people keep saying trade nylander. What part of dubas saying..can and will sign all 3 didnt you understand lol..stop making things up like the toronto media

 

[jrgtml67]

Max term on a deal is 8 years if the player plays for your team, 7 years if not. Matthews is getting max years you can safely bet your life on that one, unless disaster strikes and he only signs for the minimum 3 years, but that won't happen don't worry.

True

 

[Eat The Rich]

Because the NHL has a hard cap?

If it was a soft cap the big teams in the NHL could pay more to catch up

I'm struggling to figure out how the two things are related.

There's nothing stopping the Miami Heat and Orlando Magic from signing top Free Agents. The last time they did was because Lebron went to play with his buddy Dwayne. Why aren't they always on top of the league? Because tax rates mean nothing. If they did then the Warriors wouldn't be signing everyone.

Same goes for the Marlins and Devil Rays. Players should be flocking to play for them, yet they don't. They all go to the Yankees and Red Sox. Cubs and Dodgers. All very expensive places to live. Players go where they can win. It just so happens that Tampa is primed to do that in the NHL, and they built themselves into that position.

EDIT: Plus, tax rates change. Imagine signing a sweetheart deal because of the tax rate associated. All of a sudden two years later election season hits and there's policy shift. Hmm. All of a sudden that tax rate jumps up 3%. You've just lost thousands of dollars.

 

[PromisedLand]

Good luck Leafs fans! Hopefully it's a nice long contract on the lower end of that range!

just curious, any rumbling on Laine's extension yet?

 

[LeafFever]

Tavares is an overpayment. He might earn the money in the first few years, but during the remaining 3 Leafs will regret that monster deal

Everyone predicted he'd get more. He turned down millions to sign with the Leafs.

 

[LeafFever]

Tampa bay is bikinis and palm trees, Toronto is snow and slush, you can't compare the two, it doesn't work, very bad comparisson, player take less to play there and end up making more. Forget Tampa.

You can compare the two. Toronto is a superior place to live. There must be a reason it's always top 5-10 in world city rankings. There is more to a city than Palm trees.

 

[Legion34]

I'm struggling to figure out how the two things are related.

There's nothing stopping the Miami Heat and Orlando Magic from signing top Free Agents. The last time they did was because Lebron went to play with his buddy Dwayne. Why aren't they always on top of the league? Because tax rates mean nothing. If they did then the Warriors wouldn't be signing everyone.

Same goes for the Marlins and Devil Rays. Players should be flocking to play for them, yet they don't. They all go to the Yankees and Red Sox. Cubs and Dodgers. All very expensive places to live. Players go where they can win. It just so happens that Tampa is primed to do that in the NHL, and they built themselves into that position.

Tampa, dallas, Nashville repeatedly have signed players below market value. Coincidence? Further. These teams “with a chance to win” get better deals from their FA then Chicago, LA, Anaheim. Teams that actually have won.

It’s pretty simple.
The NHL has made a hard stop you can’t make any more than this salary cap. Players are all in the same relative ballpark.

You can either: take 10’million in Tampa and get 10 million with a better chance to win, or move and take 12 million. To just get 10 million anyway...... I totally see why Tampa etc can do it. I don’t blame them.

In a luxury tax system or non gauranteed contract system it is different.

Tampa can say “we will give you 10 and you keep it all” The Rangers say “that’s cute we will give you 30” Rich teams can more than make up the gap in tax breaks there

 

[PromisedLand]

calling it right now

Matthews: 9.5 X 8 years (huge signing bonuses)
Marner: 8 x 8 (huge signing bonuses)
Nylander: 6.5 x 6 (huge signing bonuses)

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Tavares is an overpayment. He might earn the money in the first few years, but during the remaining 3 Leafs will regret that monster deal

And yet it was reported he was offered quite a bit more in San Jose...which was kind of the point.

 

[Saitama]

just curious, any rumbling on Laine's extension yet?

Nothing that I've heard yet. Hope it gets done soon too!

 

[rent free]

I'm struggling to figure out how the two things are related.

There's nothing stopping the Miami Heat and Orlando Magic from signing top Free Agents. The last time they did was because Lebron went to play with his buddy Dwayne. Why aren't they always on top of the league? Because tax rates mean nothing. If they did then the Warriors wouldn't be signing everyone.

Same goes for the Marlins and Devil Rays. Players should be flocking to play for them, yet they don't. They all go to the Yankees and Red Sox. Cubs and Dodgers. All very expensive places to live. Players go where they can win. It just so happens that Tampa is primed to do that in the NHL, and they built themselves into that position.

EDIT: Plus, tax rates change. Imagine signing a sweetheart deal because of the tax rate associated. All of a sudden two years later election season hits and there's policy shift. Hmm. All of a sudden that tax rate jumps up 3%. You've just lost thousands of dollars.

The marlins and devil rays (now the rays) are two of the poorest teams in the league. They can't afford big name free agents. That's why MLB stars don't sign there in free agency, not because the taxes don't matter. Big free agents go to teams where they can afford to be paid the money they want.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

You can compare the two. Toronto is a superior place to live. There must be a reason it's always top 5-10 in world city rankings. There is more to a city than Palm trees.

Keep in mind some of things that make Toronto a desirable city has little to no impact on players. None of these guys are worrying about access to a social safety net and healthcare. Toronto's big edge will be with advertising, for a hockey player it's arguably the most valuable sponsorship market.

You can also make a living out of being an ex Leaf player if you achieve any success for decades.

 

[Eat The Rich]

Tampa, dallas, Nashville repeatedly have signed players below market value. Coincidence? Further. These teams “with a chance to win” get better deals from their FA then Chicago, LA, Anaheim. Teams that actually have won.

It’s pretty simple.
The NHL has made a hard stop you can’t make any more than this salary cap. Players are all in the same relative ballpark.

You can either: take 10’million in Tampa and get 10 million with a better chance to win, or move and take 12 million. To just get 10 million anyway...... I totally see why Tampa etc can do it. I don’t blame them.

In a luxury tax system or non gauranteed contract system it is different.

Tampa can say “we will give you 10 and you keep it all” The Rangers say “that’s cute we will give you 30” Rich teams can more than make up the gap in tax breaks there

Fair enough. I still think it's not the issue that it's made out to be.

If I am proven wrong, I have no problem changing my stance, but until then it's all speculation.

 

[Liferleafer]

Keep in mind some of things that make Toronto a desirable city has little to no impact on players. None of these guys are worrying about access to a social safety net and healthcare. Toronto's big edge will be with advertising, for a hockey player it's arguably the most valuable sponsorship market.

You can also make a living out of being an ex Leaf player if you achieve any success for decades.

Not even....Kypreos and Healy both work for Toronto based TV....

 

[Legion34]

Fair enough. I still think it's not the issue that it's made out to be.

If I am proven wrong, I have no issues changing my stance, but until then it's all speculation.

It’s not the be all and end all. The panthers aren’t doing that great, so players may not sign there as much. Even though Barkov took less. Arizona etc won’t matter with tax breaks until they get their house in order.

There is just so much evidence of these teams specifically getting better breaks. Being a good team helps. Being a good team and no tax helps more.

But I respect that you can have a reasonable conversation with an open mind....
Those are rare around here.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Keep in mind some of things that make Toronto a desirable city has little to no impact on players. None of these guys are worrying about access to a social safety net and healthcare. Toronto's big edge will be with advertising, for a hockey player it's arguably the most valuable sponsorship market.

You can also make a living out of being an ex Leaf player if you achieve any success for decades.

I think the fact Toronto is one of the safest major north American cities plays a big factor for some of these players with families.