Value of: Matt Murray

[Empoleon8771]

Dude, I'm a Penguin fan and I think DP will be a bust. DP has given exactly what to show he will be a better player in the NHL?

What has Honka given to show that he will be a better player in the NHL?

There are probably only 5 or 6 locations that Fleury can get traded to and that is with the Pens taking a goalie back. Dallas, NYI, Carolina, Vancouver and Calgary (if Elliott flops) are the only teams that jump out to be destinations. If the team trading for Fleury can decide to not honor his NMC (I don't know the rules of this), then I think Winnipeg, Anaheim and Buffalo could also be interested.

 

[tony d]

A mid 1st but I think they move Fleury if they move a goalie.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Vancouver has already tied almost 10 million to their duo. It' highly unlikely that they would acquire Fleury and play one of the three in the AHL. Ottawa and Buffalo would lose Anderson and Lehner - both player which they would not want to lose for free, especially when they wouldn't get significantly better by doing that. They are also tied money wise - Buffalo needs space for Eichart and Risto, whereas Ottawa has a strict budget and a couple of big extensions coming soon. As for Montreal, you are horribly, HORRIBLY wrong. Just think about the reason why you want Fleury gone, then you'll understand.

Dallas is the best fit, and contrary to your views, probably the only one as of now. If a deal was to be made, I think it's something like Lehtonen with a little retention for Fleury. Dallas doesn't exactly have to do you any favours, although it would be preferable to not let Murray come to the west. Possibly Niemi + someone to clear cap if Fleury's contract is longer than Niemi's, as space will be needed when Seguin needs a new deal at the same time as Niemi's contract runs out. Actually, Dallas might not even consider taking on Fleury if they see him taking up too much cap space when it's needed for Seguin and Spezza.

Still they consider Bishop?

 

[leafsfan1234]

It would be a massive mistake by Rutherford to trade this kid. He's way better than Fleury, has a much better contract, and just helped win them a cup. They're better off packaging their 1st with Fleury if that's what it takes to move him.

 

[MinJaBen]

Vancouver has already tied almost 10 million to their duo. It' highly unlikely that they would acquire Fleury and play one of the three in the AHL. Ottawa and Buffalo would lose Anderson and Lehner - both player which they would not want to lose for free, especially when they wouldn't get significantly better by doing that. They are also tied money wise - Buffalo needs space for Eichart and Risto, whereas Ottawa has a strict budget and a couple of big extensions coming soon. As for Montreal, you are horribly, HORRIBLY wrong. Just think about the reason why you want Fleury gone, then you'll understand.

Dallas is the best fit, and contrary to your views, probably the only one as of now. If a deal was to be made, I think it's something like Lehtonen with a little retention for Fleury. Dallas doesn't exactly have to do you any favours, although it would be preferable to not let Murray come to the west. Possibly Niemi + someone to clear cap if Fleury's contract is longer than Niemi's, as space will be needed when Seguin needs a new deal at the same time as Niemi's contract runs out. Actually, Dallas might not even consider taking on Fleury if they see him taking up too much cap space when it's needed for Seguin and Spezza.

I actually think a deal between Pittsburgh and Carolina makes a lot of sense. We have the need for a good goalie, we have cap room to take him, he would only be here a year longer than either of the other two we already have (so it wouldn't block our younger prospects who are a couple of years away), and JR and Ron Francis have a good working relationship. The negatives to a deal would be would JR trade with the Canes after being forced out? Would Pitt want back Lack or Ward as an exposable goalie? We could probably retain salary on either of them to make them easier to put into a backup roll. What other trade assets would Pitt want to make it happen? I'm pretty sure a 1st is off the table.

 

[Maukkis]

Again, if CP gets injured, Montreal's goalie situation becomes terrible. Montreal fans saw that movie last year. Desperate times force the hand of GMs, especially those on the hot seat.

You didn't read what I posted, did you?

You want to get rid of Fleury to not have to risk losing Murray. However, you somehow think that it's good for Montreal to acquire Fleury and lose Price.

That's the problem you're seemingly unwilling to see. Moving anyone with a NMC in place is tough. Moving a 32 year old goalie who's paid almost 6m a year is even tougher. Not impossible, but teams are very reclutant to do those deals.

 

[OCPenguin]

What has Honka given to show that he will be a better player in the NHL?

There are probably only 5 or 6 locations that Fleury can get traded to and that is with the Pens taking a goalie back. Dallas, NYI, Carolina, Vancouver and Calgary (if Elliott flops) are the only teams that jump out to be destinations. If the team trading for Fleury can decide to not honor his NMC (I don't know the rules of this), then I think Winnipeg, Anaheim and Buffalo could also be interested.

He hasn't shown anything either. However, I get sick and tired of Penguin fans overrating DP as much as they do. Several know he is flawed and think he won't be a long terms solution in Pittsburgh. His defenders continue to make excuses for him even when his own former HC in Wilkes Barre didn't trust him enough to play him in the play-offs. Meanwhile, the guy that was in the lineup was a complete failure in the worst organization in the NHL and even he stood as a better option with sheltered minutes than DP.

I think we both agree there could very well be many options for a deal involving Fleury to somewhere. Those who think we are limited aren't paying attention too much and don't look at rosters.

 

[molon labe]

I actually think a deal between Pittsburgh and Carolina makes a lot of sense. We have the need for a good goalie, we have cap room to take him, he would only be here a year longer than either of the other two we already have (so it wouldn't block our younger prospects who are a couple of years away), and JR and Ron Francis have a good working relationship. The negatives to a deal would be would JR trade with the Canes after being forced out? Would Pitt want back Lack or Ward as an exposable goalie? We could probably retain salary on either of them to make them easier to put into a backup roll. What other trade assets would Pitt want to make it happen? I'm pretty sure a 1st is off the table.

I've had a sneaking suspicion ever since Ward re-upped. His salary isn't far off Fleury's and the relationship is already there as you've said.

Murray DID get injured against (surprise..) the Flyers last year... and if that happens again? We just roll the dice with Jarry? What's so bad about having Fleury there to give us 2GAA basically guaranteed when we have what is probably our greatest team (overall) assembled to date? So we run in to a highly unlikely situation where nobody in the league wants Fleury for any reasonable price... we buy him out and risk losing 1.9 annual for four years which is practically the same as having to retain salary... all in the name of gambling on the cup. Isn't gambling on cup runs the name of the game for everyone who isn't on a Canadian team? Even both Florida teams are pushing the cap for a chance to win and they can't even sell tickets during the regular season.

On that note, Murray's value would be incredibly high on a team with young talent. Tell me the Leafs, Sabres, Oilers, Red Wings, or Stars wouldn't be BETTER off with a 22-year old Murray. Yes he would fetch more than Jones but the Pens won't trade him.

 

[OCPenguin]

You didn't read what I posted, did you?

You want to get rid of Fleury to not have to risk losing Murray. However, you somehow think that it's good for Montreal to acquire Fleury and lose Price.

That's the problem you're seemingly unwilling to see. Moving anyone with a NMC in place is tough. Moving a 32 year old goalie who's paid almost 6m a year is even tougher. Not impossible, but teams are very reclutant to do those deals.

Desperate teams make desperate moves, especially GMs on the hot seat.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

I actually think a deal between Pittsburgh and Carolina makes a lot of sense. We have the need for a good goalie, we have cap room to take him, he would only be here a year longer than either of the other two we already have (so it wouldn't block our younger prospects who are a couple of years away), and JR and Ron Francis have a good working relationship. The negatives to a deal would be would JR trade with the Canes after being forced out? Would Pitt want back Lack or Ward as an exposable goalie? We could probably retain salary on either of them to make them easier to put into a backup roll. What other trade assets would Pitt want to make it happen? I'm pretty sure a 1st is off the table.

Fleury would probably give you guys a pretty good transitioning into Nedeljkovic. We'd probably want Ward with futures. Seeing how you guys already have a nice, young defence, would Mckeown be reasonable?

This would mean that Fleury has to waive for Carolina though, and that Karmanos doesn't block the trade, which I wouldn't be surprised he does since he hates our guts.

 

[OCPenguin]

We'd probably want Ward with futures. Seeing how you guys already have a nice, young defence, would Mckeown be reasonable?

This would mean that Fleury has to waive for Carolina though, and that Karmanos doesn't block the trade, which I wouldn't be surprised he does since he hates our guts.

I have a strong suspicion that if Fleury wants to be more than a split time starter in Pittsburgh, he will have to waive to be traded to other options that he wasn't open to earlier. Does he want to finish his career as a starter in the league, or a part-time starter or even a second string guy?

 

[Empoleon8771]

I would like a deal based around Fleury for Lack and futures, I think that deal would work well for both sides. I'd hesitate a little on Fleury for Ward and futures, but that's mainly because I don't think Ward is very good anymore and he's overpaid. I also don't know if Carolina would be on Fleury's list of acceptable trade locations, but then again, it's not like Carolina is Edmonton or Toronto.

 

[GoldiFox]

I actually think a deal between Pittsburgh and Carolina makes a lot of sense. We have the need for a good goalie, we have cap room to take him, he would only be here a year longer than either of the other two we already have (so it wouldn't block our younger prospects who are a couple of years away), and JR and Ron Francis have a good working relationship. The negatives to a deal would be would JR trade with the Canes after being forced out? Would Pitt want back Lack or Ward as an exposable goalie? We could probably retain salary on either of them to make them easier to put into a backup roll. What other trade assets would Pitt want to make it happen? I'm pretty sure a 1st is off the table.

Pitt won't get anything of value for Fleury, much less a 1st. McKeown is way more than the Canes would give up. Pittsburgh will be forced to buy Fleury out if they can't trade him and I'm not sure Fleury will be willing to waive his NMC (for Carolina) in any case.

I hope the Canes target Bishop or Fleury in Free Agency. At that point I think they could convince one of the two by offering more $$ then other teams (they have the Cap space).

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

I would like a deal based around Fleury for Lack and futures, I think that deal would work well for both sides. I'd hesitate a little on Fleury for Ward and futures, but that's mainly because I don't think Ward is very good anymore and he's overpaid. I also don't know if Carolina would be on Fleury's list of acceptable trade locations, but then again, it's not like Carolina is Edmonton or Toronto.

Well, Ward is better than Lack, the AAV is only a difference of $0.55M, and their contracts run out at the same time. I'd take the upgrade for $0.55M extra.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Pitt won't get anything of value for Fleury, much less a 1st. McKeown is way more than the Canes would give up. Pittsburgh will be forced to buy Fleury out if they can't trade him and I'm not sure Fleury will be willing to waive his NMC (for Carolina) in any case.

I hope the Canes target Bishop or Fleury in Free Agency. At that point I think they could convince one of the two by offering more $$ then other teams (they have the Cap space).

You're assuming GMs are more interested in ****ing over the Penguins than improving their own teams. GMs aren't petty like that

Here's the way I look at it. If there's a team that likes Fleury, they'll try to trade for him. They're not going to say "let's screw over Pittsburgh and then go after Fleury after they buy him out", that's a good way to get on the bad side of every other GM in the league (just like with offer sheets). If Carolina were seriously interested in Fleury, they'd offer up a competitive package for him. The Penguins needing to move Fleury will come up in negotiations, but not "you have to move Fleury so I'm only going to offer a 5th round pick for him". If they actually want Fleury, they'll offer up a legitimate package for him.

Well, Ward is better than Lack, the AAV is only a difference of $0.55M, and their contracts run out at the same time. I'd take the upgrade for $0.55M extra.

I personally don't think Ward is better than Lack, that's the big thing I disagree with.

 

[Maukkis]

Desperate teams make desperate moves, especially GMs on the hot seat.

Oh boy. This guy...

I hope you remember this if/when Fleury doesn't get traded and Murray packs his bags.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

I personally don't think Ward is better than Lack, that's the big thing I disagree with.

You may call last season by Lack's just a down season, but I would absolutely not risk it. I'd say that there is quite a marginal difference between a goaltender playing 34 games with a .901 SV%, and a goaltender playing 52 games with a .909 SV%. A difference where I believe that spending an extra $0.55M is justified.

 

[MinJaBen]

Fleury would probably give you guys a pretty good transitioning into Nedeljkovic. We'd probably want Ward with futures. Seeing how you guys already have a nice, young defence, would Mckeown be reasonable?

This would mean that Fleury has to waive for Carolina though, and that Karmanos doesn't block the trade, which I wouldn't be surprised he does since he hates our guts.

Hmmm, I don't know if our management would want to move him. He is a RHD which we have a few less of than LHD. I'd guess we'd prefer to move picks as we still have more than our fair share from selling off over the last two years. I think the two biggest issues would be JR and Karmanos' relationship and if MAF would block the move. If neither of those are issues, I'm sure it could get done but I don't know what the particulars would have to be.

 

[Habs 4 Life]

I'm so impressed with Murray, honestly the way he makes things look so cool and calm. very very impressed, Pens would make a huge mistake to trade him!

 

[GoldiFox]

You're assuming GMs are more interested in ****ing over the Penguins than improving their own teams. GMs aren't petty like that

Here's the way I look at it. If there's a team that likes Fleury, they'll try to trade for him. They're not going to say "let's screw over Pittsburgh and then go after Fleury after they buy him out", that's a good way to get on the bad side of every other GM in the league (just like with offer sheets). If Carolina were seriously interested in Fleury, they'd offer up a competitive package for him. The Penguins needing to move Fleury will come up in negotiations, but not "you have to move Fleury so I'm only going to offer a 5th round pick for him". If they actually want Fleury, they'll offer up a legitimate package for him.



I personally don't think Ward is better than Lack, that's the big thing I disagree with.

Not saying anyone would try to screw over Pittsburgh. I'm saying his value simply isn't a 1st round pick or top prospect. Almost every team in the league has a goalie they would rather protect in the Expansion Draft, Fleury's NMC really kills his value. Carolina is one of the few that doesn't (although they might be keen on keeping Altshuller). It's simply a supply and demand issue for Pittsburgh. The other major factor is whether or not Fleury would actually waive to go somewhere else. The most likely outcome is Pittsburgh buying him out, where the Canes would probably make an offer in Free Agency.

Goalies historically don't have very high value anyway. The only goalies drawing high trade value are young, presumed long-term starters (Schneider, Talbot, Jones).

 

[Viqsi]

Dallas is the best fit, and contrary to your views, probably the only one as of now. If a deal was to be made, I think it's something like Lehtonen with a little retention for Fleury. Dallas doesn't exactly have to do you any favours, although it would be preferable to not let Murray come to the west. Possibly Niemi + someone to clear cap if Fleury's contract is longer than Niemi's, as space will be needed when Seguin needs a new deal at the same time as Niemi's contract runs out. Actually, Dallas might not even consider taking on Fleury if they see him taking up too much cap space when it's needed for Seguin and Spezza.

Seguin and Spezza both have three years left. Fleury has three years left. Niemi has two years left.

 

[DrDangles]

Pens will buy out MAF before they deal Murray.

 

[Zero Pucks]

I'm so impressed with Murray, honestly the way he makes things look so cool and calm. very very impressed, Pens would make a huge mistake to trade him!

I don't know. These mid first round picks everyone seems to think he's worth are pretty tempting to take up.

 

[Son Goku]

I'm so impressed with Murray, honestly the way he makes things look so cool and calm. very very impressed, Pens would make a huge mistake to trade him!

Remind you of Price?

 

[Stickpucker]

You're assuming GMs are more interested in ****ing over the Penguins than improving their own teams. GMs aren't petty like that

Here's the way I look at it. If there's a team that likes Fleury, they'll try to trade for him. They're not going to say "let's screw over Pittsburgh and then go after Fleury after they buy him out", that's a good way to get on the bad side of every other GM in the league (just like with offer sheets). If Carolina were seriously interested in Fleury, they'd offer up a competitive package for him. The Penguins needing to move Fleury will come up in negotiations, but not "you have to move Fleury so I'm only going to offer a 5th round pick for him". If they actually want Fleury, they'll offer up a legitimate package for him.



I personally don't think Ward is better than Lack, that's the big thing I disagree with.

As someone who desperately wanted Lack to be better than Ward I can assure you he isnt.