Value of: Matt Murray

[Dying Alive]

Well theoretically the idea of trading for another player when yours falters is to improve your own team, not "bail out" another. This seems to be a common misconception in this forum.

The Pens also have other options, so it's not like they really need a bail out.

 

[Viqsi]

Well theoretically the idea of trading for another player when yours falters is to improve your own team, not "bail out" another. This seems to be a common misconception in this forum.

The Pens also have other options, so it's not like they really need a bail out.

I get that the Pens have other options (see earlier posts by me in this thread in re: I'm sure y'all will figure it out) - but having us take on a second NMC goalie is not a thing that will happen anytime soon. And given that Bob is stealing games for Team Russia at the WCoH at the moment, the timing of making such a suggestion is... somewhat less than ideal.

 

[Batrous]

Tough to say for certain. He is a cost controlled goalie that certain looks like he is starter material maybe even all star material in future season. But he's only played in part of one season in the nhl so you have to consider the very limited nhl action. If I'm the pens I'd be far more inclined to keep him because of how Fleury plays.

 

[airbus220]

The disappointment your going to feel when Murray isn't available in the expansion draft is going to be EPIC.

Why disappointed, I expect Pouliot. But I don't understand why they played Murray b2b, it's not needed and as all could see wasn't good.

 

[OCPenguin]

If Bob falters, the job will go to Korpisalo. Sure as hell we're not bailing out Pittsburgh.

(And have you been watching Bob during the WCoH? )

LOL ... putting all your ammo on Bob's performance in one game at the World Cup is somewhat ridiculous. But, whatever ...

All I know, Bob has been on the decline the last two years.

 

[OCPenguin]

Why disappointed, I expect Pouliot. But I don't understand why they played Murray b2b, it's not needed and as all could see wasn't good.

I'm hoping its Pouliot. I have a bad feeling it will be Hornqvist, which is someone I don't want to see us lose.

 

[Viqsi]

LOL ... putting all your ammo on Bob's performance in one game at the World Cup is somewhat ridiculous. But, whatever ...

All I know, Bob has been on the decline the last two years.

Why yes, that would indeed be ridiculous. Good thing I didn't do that. I guess you just somehow missed that first line in which Korpisalo was mentioned.

Y'know what's even more ridiculous? Your insisting that this is a viable possibility. We'd not only get screwed cap-wise, we'd be in serious danger of being penalized by the NHL for having two goaltenders with NMCs. We'd be putting ourselves in a g-dawful position, while benefiting a divisional rival. The very suggestion is utterly absurd. It'd be like a Flyers fan insisting that they have nothing to worry about on the blueline because they can just trade MacDonald for Maata.

 

[Maukkis]

LOL ... putting all your ammo on Bob's performance in one game at the World Cup is somewhat ridiculous. But, whatever ...

All I know, Bob has been on the decline the last two years.

You're not getting it, are you... teams won't acquire Fleury if they already have a better goalie or one with a NMC. Now when the rules have officially been published, there's a serious risk of getting penalized by the league. No sane GM takes that risk, no matter how desperate they are...

The less NMCs the team has, the more flexibility there is to do moves to help the team contend. Acquiring Fleury severely limits your flexibility, both expansion wise and money wise. Add the loss of assets on top of that... you should get the idea. (although I doubt it)


I was playing around with the thought of MAF wanting to stay as a NHL starter, while staying in Pittsburgh. Here's what I came up with. He submits his 12 team list of teams to which he doesn't want to be traded.

Buffalo
Ottawa
Dallas
Vancouver
Arizona
Calgary
Carolina
NYI
Florida
Anaheim
Winnipeg
Minnesota

There you go, absolutely no fits to be seen around the league. A nice cap penalty would go to Pittsburgh's way too, should they buy him out. Doesn't that sound lovely?

(hint: if it doesn't, you've just seen the polar opposite of your posts in this thread)

 

[Empoleon8771]

Again, NTCs have already been set. Fleury can't just arbitrarily decide that he doesn't want to go to Dallas if the Pens make a deal with them unless he already put them on his NTC, which is nonsensical because they are one of the top teams in hockey. Fleury isn't going to want to stay in Pittsburgh if the Pittsburgh management doesn't want to keep him over Murray, thinking that he would is just acting like Fleury's main interest is ****ing over the Penguins. If Fleury wants to remain a starter, he won't demand to stay in Pittsburgh. That's the reality of the situation. He knows that his time in Pittsburgh is almost done, him making himself impossible to trade just means he'd get bought out.

 

[OCPenguin]

You're not getting it, are you... teams won't acquire Fleury if they already have a better goalie or one with a NMC. Now when the rules have officially been published, there's a serious risk of getting penalized by the league. No sane GM takes that risk, no matter how desperate they are...

The less NMCs the team has, the more flexibility there is to do moves to help the team contend. Acquiring Fleury severely limits your flexibility, both expansion wise and money wise. Add the loss of assets on top of that... you should get the idea. (although I doubt it)


I was playing around with the thought of MAF wanting to stay as a NHL starter, while staying in Pittsburgh. Here's what I came up with. He submits his 12 team list of teams to which he doesn't want to be traded.

Buffalo
Ottawa
Dallas
Vancouver
Arizona
Calgary
Carolina
NYI
Florida
Anaheim
Winnipeg
Minnesota

There you go, absolutely no fits to be seen around the league. A nice cap penalty would go to Pittsburgh's way too, should they buy him out. Doesn't that sound lovely?

(hint: if it doesn't, you've just seen the polar opposite of your posts in this thread)

I totally get it. Uninformed people like you don't. So, right now Fleury is in a platoon situation. He is at best 1B, at worst 2 in Pittsburgh. You don't think if he wants to be the "Man" again and be on the ice more times than not, that some of the places he wasn't open to being moved to might all the sudden becomes more appealing? It's either play for those you mentioned in your list, or sit on the bench half the time. Not rocket science champ.

 

[OCPenguin]

Again, NTCs have already been set. Fleury can't just arbitrarily decide that he doesn't want to go to Dallas if the Pens make a deal with them unless he already put them on his NTC, which is nonsensical because they are one of the top teams in hockey. Fleury isn't going to want to stay in Pittsburgh if the Pittsburgh management doesn't want to keep him over Murray, thinking that he would is just acting like Fleury's main interest is ****ing over the Penguins. If Fleury wants to remain a starter, he won't demand to stay in Pittsburgh. That's the reality of the situation. He knows that his time in Pittsburgh is almost done, him making himself impossible to trade just means he'd get bought out.

Exactly ... a concept the guy above can't seem to grasp.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Solid #analysis

I just ran down the list of Eastern Conference teams and the only two that I think would take Fleury are Carolina and Buffalo. Holtby, Murray, Lundqvist, Greiss/Halak, Mason, Scheider, Bobrovsky, Luongo, Vasilevski, Mrazek, Rask, Anderson, Price, Andersen. Who else drops their goalie for Fleury? Certainly sounds like "most" teams already have their keeper.

MAF would be taken over the bolded.

And if there wan't expansion you could add Murray and Vasi to the list.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

I totally get it. Uninformed people like you don't. So, right now Fleury is in a platoon situation. He is at best 1B, at worst 2 in Pittsburgh. You don't think if he wants to be the "Man" again and be on the ice more times than not, that some of the places he wasn't open to being moved to might all the sudden becomes more appealing? It's either play for those you mentioned in your list, or sit on the bench half the time. Not rocket science champ.

i love how that there is 0 chance MAF is the Pens #1 this year to about 90% of this board.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

MAF and Murray both have a 50/50 shot at being #1 I imo.

I think MAF gets more starts.

 

[Viqsi]

MAF would be taken over the bolded.

And if there wan't expansion you could add Murray and Vasi to the list.

Not in Columbus he wouldn't. Not with both his and Bob's NMC.

 

[Starat327]

Not in Columbus he wouldn't. Not with both his and Bob's NMC.

I also wouldn't take MAF over Mason. MAF is an excellent goalie, but Mason has just been too good since coming to Philadelphia.

 

[airbus220]

MAF would be taken over the bolded.

And if there wan't expansion you could add Murray and Vasi to the list.

NYI - not a chance. Fleury is even more expensive than Halak. Isles signed Berube for a reason.
FLA - Luongo is good enough to share the load with Reimer. His salary isn't high in the last years of his contract. They will also do everything not to get the recapture penalty.
TOR - decided to have a much younger goalie and they wanted to get rid of Bernier. Don't tell me PIT would have taken Bernier.
TBL - doesn't need an expensive goalie, they will trade Bishop only because of money.
CBJ and PHI - see above.
Fleury will get bought out if Murray keeps it up, it's good for him. Why is this even in question.

 

[Empoleon8771]

NYI - not a chance. Fleury is even more expensive than Halak. Isles signed Berube for a reason.
FLA - Luongo is good enough to share the load with Reimer. His salary isn't high in the last years of his contract. They will also do everything not to get the recapture penalty.
TOR - decided to have a much younger goalie and they wanted to get rid of Bernier. Don't tell me PIT would have taken Bernier.
TBL - doesn't need an expensive goalie, they will trade Bishop only because of money.
CBJ and PHI - see above.
Fleury will get bought out if Murray keeps it up, it's good for him. Why is this even in question.

Oh, you can tell the future? Care to share tomorrow's lottery numbers?

Saying anything definitive at this point is just stupid at this point. Fleury could easily force a buyout, but he could also easily waive his NTC and accept a trade to wherever the Pens trade him to. Realistically, the only way that the Pens will have to buy out Fleury is if Fleury decided to handcuff the Penguins or if the Penguins are asking for an asinine price for him.

 

[zar]

Again, NTCs have already been set. Fleury can't just arbitrarily decide that he doesn't want to go to Dallas if the Pens make a deal with them unless he already put them on his NTC, which is nonsensical because they are one of the top teams in hockey. Fleury isn't going to want to stay in Pittsburgh if the Pittsburgh management doesn't want to keep him over Murray, thinking that he would is just acting like Fleury's main interest is ****ing over the Penguins. If Fleury wants to remain a starter, he won't demand to stay in Pittsburgh. That's the reality of the situation. He knows that his time in Pittsburgh is almost done, him making himself impossible to trade just means he'd get bought out.

I noticed you have said this a couple times and seem quite certain. Do you have a link?

I found the following HERE.

What is a Limited, or Modified No-Trade Clause (M-NTC)?
A limited, or modified no-trade clause (M-NTC) is less restrictive than a full no-trade clause (NTC), and can be added to a player's contract in the years after they are eligible for Group 3 Unrestricted Free Agency (7 Accrued seasons or 27 years of age), and has the following properties:
The player's contract includes specific terms in respect to being traded without their consent where the player must:
In a specified timeframe or window:
Specify a pre-determined number of teams the player would be willing to be traded to, or:
Specify a pre-determined number of teams the player would not be willing to be traded to
Consent is not required to be placed on waivers
Consent is not required for assignment to the minors
Player is not exempt from a buyout or contract termination
The clause can travel with the player even if he consents to being traded or is claimed on waivers
This requires that the acquiring team sign an addendum to the contract ensuring that the clause does in fact travel with the player (written by the player's agent)
If the acquiring team refuses to sign the addendum, and the player waives his clause anyway, at that point the clause may be nullified
If the player is traded before the clause takes effect, the acquiring team can opt to void the clause
Example: Modified No-Trade Clause: Within 48 hours of request, the player must submit a list of 18 teams they are willing to be traded to without consent. If the list is not received within 48 hours, the player can be traded to any team without consent.

Specific reference to Fleury's contract can be found in THIS article but there seems to be uncertainty with regards to when the list is to be provided.

 

[airbus220]

I'm hoping its Pouliot. I have a bad feeling it will be Hornqvist, which is someone I don't want to see us lose.

Which forwards would you protect?
Who could replace Hornqvist on your list?

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Which forwards would you protect?
Who could replace Hornqvist on your list?

He's talking about if we would go the 8 skaters route. I'd think that we'd protect Hornqvist over Hagelin though.

 

[Maukkis]

I totally get it. Uninformed people like you don't. So, right now Fleury is in a platoon situation. He is at best 1B, at worst 2 in Pittsburgh. You don't think if he wants to be the "Man" again and be on the ice more times than not, that some of the places he wasn't open to being moved to might all the sudden becomes more appealing? It's either play for those you mentioned in your list, or sit on the bench half the time. Not rocket science champ.

I love how I'm the uninformed here, yet you claimed that Montreal would risk losing Price to get Fleury for a season.

You don't seem to get that Fleury can single-handedly wipe Murray out of his way, should the Pens not buy him out before the expansion. There you go, a starting goalie spot on a contender wide open for 17-18 season. And only the most deluded would think that Fleury doesn't get any starts because of Murray's cup run. Once the season starts, we'll likely see a different Murray than a couple of months ago. Before the Pens do ANY trades whatsoever, they will have a long look at the goalie situation. Fleury doesn't get moved before they see what Murray can do over a longer period of time. He might completely cool down... and then it's an interesting scenario.

 

[Dying Alive]

Unless Murray completely regresses/craps the bed on an ongoing basis all season, the Pens are going to choose him going forward. If that happens, why would anyone pick him in the expansion draft?

Rutherford understands why the Leafs were among the teams who had interest in Murray. It’s the same reason he is an untouchable commodity.

“There’s no conversation with him,†Rutherford said. “There never was. I mean, they can get in line with half the league.

“A lot of teams have asked. There’s no interest (in moving him).â€

(...)

Having said that, would Rutherford still consider him untouchable even if he should falter in the coming games?

“Ya,†the Penguins GM said. “He’s definitely one of those.â€
http://slam.canoe.com/Slam/Hockey/NHL/Playoffs/2016/05/15/22633395.html

That was before they won the Cup and he was in the Conn Smythe discussion. Murray isn't going anywhere. We can continue to beat this horse into the ground until the expansion draft but why bother? In the unlikely event that Murray's body of work up until now is him getting lucky and he actually stinks, there's no big loss in letting him go. If he's still good, they keep him. They find a deal for Fleury (Dallas makes a lot of sense), he likely waives (because let's be honest, even putting his personality aside, nobody wants to be the elephant in the room who the team doesn't want) OR if worse comes to worst they buy him out.

tl;dr - there's absolutely no reason to believe that if the Pens decide to go with Murray (which is likely) they won't find a way to keep him.

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

NYI - not a chance. Fleury is even more expensive than Halak. Isles signed Berube for a reason.

A trade with NYI, in a vacuum, isnt that unrealistic.

MAF + 3rd for Halak + PA Parenteau. Salary works out even.

MAF is better than Halak. Berube may or may not be ready this season to take on a full back up roll. Which is fine, as Griess is still there.

Next season, MAF is the starter and Berube can back up and the Isles can see where he is in his development. Then make a decision after that point.

Its not that crazy a scenario.

Now, having said all that .. its incredibly unlikely that the Pens and Isles are trading partners, given that they are division rivals.

 

[gdsmack267]

The price to get Murray will be more than any team or fanbase will want to give up