Matt Duchene

[NyQuil]

I don't think him playing his LW would have hindered his ability with Spezza and Alfredsson, though he spent 9/10's of his career on his offwing.

They had ample opportunities to play them together and never did.

Both Alfredsson and Hossa liked to have the puck on their stick.

They were both the catalysts for their respective lines.

I think Heatley was a better fit, regardless of how their careers panned out.

I find it hard to dump on an exchange of players that resulted in back-to-back 50 goal seasons and the franchise's first and only Stanley Cup finals appearance.

Time was running out on the core after the high-water mark of 2003 was followed by disappointment in 2004 following yet another playoff loss to the Leafs.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

Not really.

Yeah really.

Hossa produced with Todd White as his C, scoring 45 goals during the dead puck era.

He led the Thrashers in scoring by 20 points one year, single-handedly dragging them to the playoffs.

He scored 26 postseason points (one less than Crosby) and led the Pens in goals en route to game 7 of the SCF.

He produced on good teams in Ottawa, Chicago, Detroit and Pittsburgh.

Hossa should have won AT LEAST one Selke in his career.

Heatley meanwhile fell off a cliff when he didn't have Spezz and Alfie feeding him. Even though he was playing with Joe Thornton.

Heatley was a pigeon. He was probably the best pigeon of all time but he fed off others. Couldn't create much, if anything on his own.

Hossa could make a line.

I appreciate the talents that Heatley brought to the Sens and that line was amazing to watch but Hossa was a much better player. I think the 2005-2008 Sens would have been better served with Alfie or Hossa anchoring a second line and the other riding shotgun with Spezza.

 

[Tuna99]

Yeah really.

Hossa produced with Todd White as his C, scoring 45 goals during the dead puck era.

He led the Thrashers in scoring by 20 points one year, single-handedly dragging them to the playoffs.

He scored 26 postseason points (one less than Crosby) and led the Pens in goals en route to game 7 of the SCF.

He produced on good teams in Ottawa, Chicago, Detroit and Pittsburgh.

Hossa should have won AT LEAST one Selke in his career.

Heatley meanwhile fell off a cliff when he didn't have Spezz and Alfie feeding him. Even though he was playing with Joe Thornton.

Heatley was a pigeon. He was probably the best pigeon of all time but he fed off others. Couldn't create much, if anything on his own.

Hossa could make a line.

I appreciate the talents that Heatley brought to the Sens and that line was amazing to watch but Hossa was a much better player. I think the 2005-2008 Sens would have been better served with Alfie or Hossa anchoring a second line and the other riding shotgun with Spezza.

I don't remember Hossa playing with White, Hossa almost always played with Bonk. And white with Alfie.

 

[BondraTime]

They had ample opportunities to play them together and never did.

Both Alfredsson and Hossa liked to have the puck on their stick.

They were both the catalysts for their respective lines.

I think Heatley was a better fit, regardless of how their careers panned out.

I find it hard to dump on an exchange of players that resulted in back-to-back 50 goal seasons and the franchise's first and only Stanley Cup finals appearance.

Time was running out on the core after the high-water mark of 2003 was followed by disappointment in 2004 following yet another playoff loss to the Leafs.

Not dumping on it, all I was saying was that Hossa getting the chance to play with Spezza would have resulted in a 50 goal season in 05 or 06, which was what this discussion started out with, Spezza not being an elite player.

That is also a trademark of Jacques Martin spreading our talent out (Havlat an Spezza on 3rd/4th lines) I would expect had we had Murray in 03-04 Hossa and Alfie would have been tried together.

 

[NyQuil]

Hossa produced with Todd White as his C, scoring 45 goals during the dead puck era.

So did Daniel Alfredsson.

He led the Thrashers in scoring by 20 points one year, single-handedly dragging them to the playoffs.

He scored 26 postseason points (one less than Crosby) and led the Pens in goals en route to game 7 of the SCF.

On Crosby and Malkin's team.

He also lost that series and then switched teams to Detroit who had beat them in the finals only to lose again, this time to the Penguins.

Karma?

He produced on good teams in Ottawa, Chicago, Detroit and Pittsburgh.

Heatley also produced in Atlanta before he was in Ottawa - if for some reason we're evaluating entire careers.

Hossa should have won AT LEAST one Selke in his career.

I'll give you that.

Heatley meanwhile fell off a cliff when he didn't have Spezz and Alfie feeding him. Even though he was playing with Joe Thornton.

Sure, but this doesn't really factor into the decision made in 2005-2006.

Heatley was a pigeon. He was probably the best pigeon of all time but he fed off others. Couldn't create much, if anything on his own.

Hossa could make a line.

I appreciate the talents that Heatley brought to the Sens and that line was amazing to watch but Hossa was a much better player. I think the 2005-2008 Sens would have been better served with Alfie or Hossa anchoring a second line and the other riding shotgun with Spezza.

This is a hypothetical.

I respect that it's your opinion but it is a concrete fact is that Heatley was on the team that made it the furthest - and he tied for the NHL playoff lead in scoring that year.

Yes, he was the least important of the 3 but still played a critical role.

The one skill that Heatley had over every other Senators player I've ever seen is his ability to finish. He didn't miss empty nets. He scored every way it was possible to score, though most people only remember his one-timers.

And his playmaking was criminally underrated.

When Heatley demanded to be traded, it's not as if we had given up on him.

Over the two seasons in Ottawa after the Cup run, at the beginning of his "decline", he still put up 80 goals and 154 points in 153 games.

Meanwhile, Hossa had put up 69 goals and 137 points in 146 games.

I'll agree that Hossa has certainly had the better career but the conclusive evidence for that came long after either player was playing for the Senators.

 

[NyQuil]

Not dumping on it, all I was saying was that Hossa getting the chance to play with Spezza would have resulted in a 50 goal season in 05 or 06, which was what this discussion started out with, Spezza not being an elite player.

That is also a trademark of Jacques Martin spreading our talent out (Havlat an Spezza on 3rd/4th lines) I would expect had we had Murray in 03-04 Hossa and Alfie would have been tried together.

It says something about Spezza's talent level that even his storied career has to be considered a bit of a disappointment.

Some guys never really get over the injury bug.

 

[NyQuil]

I don't remember Hossa playing with White, Hossa almost always played with Bonk. And white with Alfie.

He's talking about in Atlanta.

EDIT: No, never mind. 43 goals in Atlanta. I know White was there, but so was Kozlov.

 

[coladin]

I can remember with great clarity the debates that surrounded Chara and Redden's extensions.

1. Redden was willing to sign for $6M if Chara was willing to sign for $6M.

2. Redden was willing to sign for fewer years, which gave the team flexibility given the upcoming deals for Heatley and Spezza (no one knew where the cap was going in those days).

3. Chara wanted the league maximum over the longest term possible - which he deserved and received.

4. Chara wanted to be the Captain of his own team.

5. Chara had a poor playoff that was exacerbated by his wrist injury (he couldn't clear the puck). This was in addition to a popular belief that the "new" NHL with its crackdown on obstruction would reduce Chara's value. We only had the one season sample size.

There are arguments made that the treatment of Hossa led to the above, but I don't think it's necessarily conclusive.

I was very concerned about Chara because he was a unique quantity in the league and I've never been much of a Redden supporter.

But overall, I think the decision made is understandable at least.

I agree with a lot of this.

I always remembered when someone asked then coach Brian Murray, he said "both great players, but there is only one Chara".

The cap really hurt this team. Had to unload Havlat as well and got garbage back.

Hossa was my favourite player so was stunned when he was traded. The total package. But Heatley, if there was a puck near him, his stick was in the air, waggling, and !BAM!, in the net. Didn't matter if it was bouncing, on its side, fluttering. He was unreal for three years and honestly no one was missing Hossa , not even me. Gutted how it ended, but people tend to skim over how good he was along the boards, fishing out pucks, tipping pucks, etc...just a solid hockey player.

 

[NyQuil]

Gutted how it ended, but people tend to skim over how good he was along the boards, fishing out pucks, tipping pucks, etc...just a solid hockey player.

Also, I try not to forget his hilarious temper.

He had that blast shield visor so he couldn't fight, but he sure liked to slash and hook guys when he'd get mad.

"Here comes the Heatley retaliation penalty.....and......."

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Hossa and Heatley were both excellent players. Healtley left a sour taste and his career tailed off fast but he was fantastic for Team Canada and the Ottawa Senators. Hossa was the prototypical 2 way winger. A horse. 2 more great players to come through Ottawa and leave.

 

[NyQuil]

2 more great players to come through Ottawa and leave.

Another way of looking at it is to consider that a lot of teams don't have great players to leave.

Teams that didn't have a decent first round pick (let alone a depth diamond like Alfie) for a decade or more.

Hossa really was a horse though. Some games he was just unstoppable.

I was in the stands for the playoff goal where he just whizzed around the offensive zone a bunch of times before scoring. Amazing.

 

[stempniaksen]

It's a fun but fruitless exercise to wonder what could have been with Hossa/Chara instead of Heatley/Redden.

 

[NyQuil]

It's a fun but fruitless exercise to wonder what could have been with Hossa/Chara instead of Heatley/Redden.

7 straight Cups.

League folds due to lack of competition.

No more hockey.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Another way of looking at it is to consider that a lot of teams don't have great players to leave.

Teams that didn't have a decent first round pick (let alone a depth diamond like Alfie) for a decade or more.

I am just too narrow minded to look at it all philosophically.. One man's loss is another man's gain . A tragedy is only a tragedy in the eye of the beholder. Not to mention world hunger and human rights atrocities. Those really tip the scales when you look at losses of hokey players on your favorite team.. You were probably a Ranger fan then anyway.

 

[NyQuil]

I am just too narrow minded to look at it all philosophically.. One man's loss is another man's gain . A tragedy is only a tragedy in the eye of the beholder. Not to mention world hunger and human rights atrocities. Those really tip the scales when you look at losses of hokey players on your favorite team.. You were probably a Ranger fan then anyway.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

7 straight Cups.

League folds due to lack of competition.

No more hockey.

Countless owners threaten to move their teams if fans don't start turning out to games

 

[aragorn]

Wasn't Heatley one of the highest scoring forwards for Team Canada during his hey day as well? Both were great players.

 

[NyQuil]

Wasn't Heatley one of the highest scoring forwards for Team Canada during his hey day as well? Both were great players.

He was Mr. World Championships.

Like Ryan Smyth only productive.

 

[GCK]

He lead the NHL in PPG and was top 10 on a regular basis in his prime. Its ok if you just started following hockey seems like many posters on here are new to the sport.

Don’t be like that. Perhaps it’s tour definition of elite.

During his best years I would rank the centres below as superior to Spezza.

Sakic
Thornton
Datsuyk
Crosby
Staal
Getzlaf
Sundin(maybe)
Zetterberg (maybe)
Lecalvier (maybe)
Malkin (maybe)
Sedin (maybe)

He was not elite IMO

 

[NyQuil]

Don’t be like that. Perhaps it’s tour definition of elite.

During his best years I would rank the centres below as superior to Spezza.

Sakic
Thornton
Datsyuk
Crosby
Staal
Getzlaf
Sundin(maybe)
Zetterberg (maybe)
Lecalvier (maybe)
Malkin (maybe)
Sedin (maybe)

He was not elite IMO

I'd say Staal is pretty debateable but anyway.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

Don’t be like that. Perhaps it’s tour definition of elite.

During his best years I would rank the centres below as superior to Spezza.

Sakic
Thornton
Datsuyk
Crosby
Staal
Getzlaf
Sundin(maybe)
Zetterberg (maybe)
Lecalvier (maybe)
Malkin (maybe)
Sedin (maybe)

He was not elite IMO

I'd say Staal is pretty debateable but anyway.

Agreed on Staal.

And if "maybe" Malkin is better than you then you are 100% elite.

 

[NyQuil]

And if "maybe" Malkin is better than you then you are 100% elite.

Well, Malkin was only worse than Spezza for maybe the 2006-2007 season.

 

[Silencio]

Meanwhile in actual Matt Duchene news:

 

[swiftwin]

Meanwhile in actual Matt Duchene news:

Crazy.

Hopefully it doesn't turn into a nagging thing for the whole season though.

 

[branch]

Paging Pierre Dorion, this is for Pierre Dorion...