Proposal: Matt Duchene to OTT

[Foppberg]

You are missing the point. Sens fan would trade Ceci before Chabot because of the Vegas draft. They actually have similar value other wise

No, you just miss the point that we do not want him in a deal for Duchene. At all. No matter the sales pitch.

 

[Benttheknee]

- If Bishop for Conacher (ROTY candidate) + 4th was a bad trade,

It was a terrible trade and I knew it the moment it was made.

Conacher was eating up the post lockout NHL and was sliding hard a few weeks before he was picked up. I wanted Johnson or Killorn not Conacher.

 

[Benttheknee]

No, you just miss the point that we do not want him in a deal for Duchene. At all. No matter the sales pitch.

Fair enough as long as you understand why Chabot is not on the table.

Frankly I don't see why Duchene is a target for Ottawa unless we ship a Center back.

Ceci and Pageau for him makes sense from an Ottawa perspective because it solves the Vegas draft issue quite well and it makes sense from a position perspective as well. The result from this is that Ottawa keeps Methot and loses a lesser player like Wideman or Lazar.

Chabot might fit you folks better, but definitely not Ottawa.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

Duchene is a marginal upgrade on Turris at best, hell I'm not even sure it would be an upgrade seeing as he's not very good defensively. There's no way Ottawa's going to give up Chabot, 1st and a roster player for a marginal upgrade at best.

And I hate to break it to you Avs fans, but Duchene is in the bottom half of the top 30 C in the league, so most teams already have a center just as good if not better than Duchene, so you're not going to get a package like Chabot, 1st and roster player from any other team either.

 

[EdAVSfan]

Duchene is a marginal upgrade on Turris at best, hell I'm not even sure it would be an upgrade seeing as he's not very good defensively. There's no way Ottawa's going to give up Chabot, 1st and a roster player for a marginal upgrade at best.

And I hate to break it to you Avs fans, but Duchene is in the bottom half of the top 30 C in the league, so most teams already have a center just as good if not better than Duchene, so you're not going to get a package like Chabot, 1st and roster player from any other team either.

Nothing we haven't heard before already.

 

[strictlyrandy]

Fair enough as long as you understand why Chabot is not on the table.

Frankly I don't see why Duchene is a target for Ottawa unless we ship a Center back.

Ceci and Pageau for him makes sense from an Ottawa perspective because it solves the Vegas draft issue quite well and it makes sense from a position perspective as well. The result from this is that Ottawa keeps Methot and loses a lesser player like Wideman or Lazar.

Chabot might fit you folks better, but definitely not Ottawa.

Except that you are missing the point. Duchene isn't on the table unless a team puts a player like Chabot on the table.

 

[EdAVSfan]

Is it just me, or are we avs fans constantly force-fed players from other fan bases?

We don't make the threads to trade off our players, and then we're consistently told what we need to accept.

First it was bozak from Toronto, then it was pysyk from buffalo and now it's ceci from Ottawa.
I wonder who will be next.

 

[EdAVSfan]

Fair enough as long as you understand why Chabot is not on the table.

Frankly I don't see why Duchene is a target for Ottawa unless we ship a Center back.

Ceci and Pageau for him makes sense from an Ottawa perspective because it solves the Vegas draft issue quite well and it makes sense from a position perspective as well. The result from this is that Ottawa keeps Methot and loses a lesser player like Wideman or Lazar.

Chabot might fit you folks better, but definitely not Ottawa.

Near every avs fan has been consistent in their message. To trade duchene, we would need chabot as the center piece. If that's not a comfortable for Ottawa, no problem, Colorado moves onto the next GM, until they can find the right d-man as the center piece.

It's the constant force-feeding of other players that's just downright annoying. We are all more than willing to move on from chabot. But then don't turn it around on us, tell us another package that we don't want, tell us why it's good for us, when we never asked for it in the first place.

Btw, this is not directed towards you, just in general.

Avs fans are perfectly comfortable in accepting if Ottawa doesn't want to give up Chabot. No issues. We accept that it may not be a helpful enough trade.

But why don't the fans just leave it at that? Why most we constantly have to defend our position...despite the fact we're more than likely, not suggesting the trade in the first place?

It's Groundhog Day for us every season it seems. Just always a different fan base.

 

[Freudian]

Perhaps a rental will be more in your budget? You can have Rene Bourque for a 3rd-4th round pick and as an added bonus Ceci will continue to tear it up for Sens.

 

[falconski]

Is it just me, or are we avs fans constantly force-fed players from other fan bases?

We don't make the threads to trade off our players, and then we're consistently told what we need to accept.

First it was bozak from Toronto, then it was pysyk from buffalo and now it's ceci from Ottawa.
I wonder who will be next.

Don't forget juulsen from Montreal

 

[EdAVSfan]

Don't forget juulsen from Montreal

Well that's been very tame and mild. Hasn't come as often as the other ones.

 

[SoulDynasty]

Sens fans need to understand the scenario here. Right now I believe you guys are thinking that the Avs are knocking at your door, offering you Duchene, and asking what you can give up for him. That isn't the case. Sakic has already said that he is only listening to offers for him/Landy, not actively shopping them.

The asking price is a young left handed defensemen with potential to be a number 1, and pluses based on how likely that player is going to become that number 1 guy. Like has been mentioned many, many, many, many times already, the only player that fits that bill on the Sens is Chabot. So if he is off the table, there is no need for you guys to write essays on the merits of Ceci or Ryan because we're not going to accept them.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Sens fans need to understand the scenario here. Right now I believe you guys are thinking that the Avs are knocking at your door, offering you Duchene, and asking what you can give up for him. That isn't the case. Sakic has already said that he is only listening to offers for him/Landy, not actively shopping them.

The asking price is a young left handed defensemen with potential to be a number 1, and pluses based on how likely that player is going to become that number 1 guy. Like has been mentioned many, many, many, many times already, the only player that fits that bill on the Sens is Chabot. So if he is off the table, there is no need for you guys to write essays on the merits of Ceci or Ryan because we're not going to accept them.

Personally I don't think the Sens have the assets which they would like to move to acquire either of Colorado's big boys but curious at what the plan would be from Avs fans perspective if nobody is willing to meet the asking price for said big boys..... reduce price? Trade other pieces? Add UFA's? New coach? or go into next season with everything the same and pray?

 

[SoulDynasty]

Personally I don't think the Sens have the assets which they would like to move to acquire either of Colorado's big boys but curious at what the plan would be from Avs fans perspective if nobody is willing to meet the asking price for said big boys..... reduce price? Trade other pieces? Add UFA's? New coach? or go into next season with everything the same and pray?

We won't trade them. We have some depth coming up through the pipeline, plus a pretty good first rounder from the upcoming draft. We have a lot of useless and expensive talent coming off our books this offseason. We're not in a terrible spot. We can make it work with our core, but if we are going to move one, it's for the defenseman we're missing.

 

[Upgrayedd]

We won't trade them. We have some depth coming up through the pipeline, plus a pretty good first rounder from the upcoming draft. We have a lot of useless and expensive talent coming off our books this offseason. We're not in a terrible spot. We can make it work with our core, but if we are going to move one, it's for the defenseman we're missing.

Not knowing your numbers this seems like where the change would be most prominent, it kind of sucks that this years draft is being dubbed as historically bad from top to bottom especially seeing what the last few have produced at the top.

Every team has many things they would like to re-do, would Avs fans in retrospect have preferred Jones over Mackinnon?

 

[AvsGuy]

Is it just me, or are we avs fans constantly force-fed players from other fan bases?

We don't make the threads to trade off our players, and then we're consistently told what we need to accept.

First it was bozak from Toronto, then it was pysyk from buffalo and now it's ceci from Ottawa.
I wonder who will be next.

And then the players we're interested in who are expressly off-limits according to their fans (Zadorov) end up in the trade anyways.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Not knowing your numbers this seems like where the change would be most prominent, it kind of sucks that this years draft is being dubbed as historically bad from top to bottom especially seeing what the last few have produced at the top.

Every team has many things they would like to re-do, would Avs fans in retrospect have preferred Jones over Mackinnon?

No retrospect about it... Have always preferred Jones over MacKinnon. There was people on both sides honestly.

 

[cgf]

Well that's been very tame and mild. Hasn't come as often as the other ones.

And a lot more Habs fans recognize they'd have to give up Sergachev, than there were Sabres fans ready to recognize that they'd be giving up Zadorov...at least until very close to the actual trade, when reality started to set in and they turned on Zads.

 

[AslanRH]

Duchene is a marginal upgrade on Turris at best, hell I'm not even sure it would be an upgrade seeing as he's not very good defensively. There's no way Ottawa's going to give up Chabot, 1st and a roster player for a marginal upgrade at best.

And I hate to break it to you Avs fans, but Duchene is in the bottom half of the top 30 C in the league, so most teams already have a center just as good if not better than Duchene, so you're not going to get a package like Chabot, 1st and roster player from any other team either.

We all are quite aware how limited Duchene is. He primarily padded his numbers when the Avs had an average 2C/elite 3C in ROR doing all the difficult defensive work. His faceoff numbers don't really reflect that his wingers do most of the work and that Duchene is merely there to tie up the center until help arrives. MacKinnon has been saddled with having to take most of the defensive matchups with Landeskog, so his numbers have suffered while Duchene just tallies up points with Goal scorers like Iginla and Bourque on his wing. Once Duchene is gone, MacK can get back to leading the offense and the Avs can get a true #2 that can play even a semblance of defense.

If it wouldn't have been for him being a childhood fan of the team, he likely would have been traded a couple years ago.

 

[Liver King]

I guess I still didnt get an answer with all the *****ing in here haha

EVERYBODY: Duchene is a great asset, asking for Chabot makes complete sense because he is one of the best prospects outside the NHL and fits the needs of the Avalanche.. offering Ceci makes far more sense for Ottawa because he is still a very good asset yet expansion is coming up and we will already lose a top 4 for nothing.

no Chabot, no deal.. perfectly fair so lets leave it at that lmao

However...what I want to ask is.

if Duchene is gonna cost us Chabot++, whats Landeskogs asking price? 16 pts on the season, only plays the wing, and has seen some decline in production each year

 

[tigervixxxen]

Every team has many things they would like to re-do, would Avs fans in retrospect have preferred Jones over Mackinnon?

No I wouldn't. In retrospect they should have tried harder to select D in some of the other drafts. If they didn't use their assets on vets they could have moved up.

And even the Ottawa media speculates it's going to take Chabot, we aren't just asking for the moon here.

Landeskog won't go cheaper. Avs have even less incentive to move him.

 

[Drydenwasthebest]

Is it just me, or are we avs fans constantly force-fed players from other fan bases?

We don't make the threads to trade off our players, and then we're consistently told what we need to accept.

First it was bozak from Toronto, then it was pysyk from buffalo and now it's ceci from Ottawa.
I wonder who will be next.

Sergachev, 1st in 2018, + Desharnais for Duchene.

 

[Liver King]

No I wouldn't. In retrospect they should have tried harder to select D in some of the other drafts. If they didn't use their assets on vets they could have moved up.

And even the Ottawa media speculates it's going to take Chabot, we aren't just asking for the moon here.

Landeskog won't go cheaper. Avs have even less incentive to move him.

so you think Landeskog is also worth Chabot++?

 

[cgf]

Sergachev, 1st in 2018, + Desharnais for Duchene.

Add McCarron/Scherbak and that's a deal avs fans could learn to live with.

so you think Landeskog is also worth Chabot++?

Yes. There's no reason to move Landeskog unless a Chabot esque dman is coming back, and even then moving Duchene seems the more logical choice (age, contract status, in-house-alternatives, trade value, etc.)

 

[JoemAvs]

so you think Landeskog is also worth Chabot++?

Why not?

IMO the difference in value between the two is not huge. Duchene is certainly the better offensive player by quite a bit but Landy has him beat on almost every other aspect of the game and is signed for longer and cheaper and also 2 years younger.


I mean this is not a firesale where both guys have to go right now or we lose them for nothing.

Regardless what you personally believe their value is or is not, the Avs will have to be incentivized to move on from those guys.

And the only real asset that fits the bill from the Sens (aside from the obvious ones that are untradeable) right now is Chabot.

But he is only a prospect so he will have to come with a decent + to mitigate the risk of him busting.

This is why those Ceci, Dzingels, 1st kind of proposals are so infuriating.

They are the exact opposite of that.

Regardless of what you think of Ceci, there is no rationale case for why he should play ahead of EJ and Barrie on the right side.

Dzingels is not a piece of real interest if you move high value pieces and a mid-late 1st in a rather weak draft isn't either.

So why would the Avs even consider that?


Either you offer the Avs something exciting that they could really use (which from the Sens would be Chabot) or you should not offer anything at all...