Proposal: Matt Duchene to OTT

[topshelf15]

I don't see Ottawa having any interest in Duchene at full value. They just don't have a pressing need to add a LW/C, so prying away their top prospect is pretty much a non-starter.

Chabot is a piece that would only be moved for an elite center, imo, and Duchene is simply not enough to entice Ottawa to give him up. It's not that the value is off, but rather that Ottawa needs a bigger upgrade to it's number 1 center to make it worthwhile, and adding Duchene just creates budget issues down the road.

Pretty much this ,Duschene is pretty good .But not Worth selling the farm over .TBH even moving Ceci for him is a risk for us ,despite what hf board posters seem to think .

 

[Ivan13]

I don't see Ottawa having any interest in Duchene at full value. They just don't have a pressing need to add a LW/C, so prying away their top prospect is pretty much a non-starter.

Chabot is a piece that would only be moved for an elite center, imo, and Duchene is simply not enough to entice Ottawa to give him up. It's not that the value is off, but rather that Ottawa needs a bigger upgrade to it's number 1 center to make it worthwhile, and adding Duchene just creates budget issues down the road.

Duchene is a RW and Duchene is an upgrade on everything you have.

 

[topshelf15]

Duchene is a RW and Duchene is an upgrade on everything you have.

Not really ,Turris is his equal as a center and Stone is a better RW ,we really dont need him at an inflated cost

 

[JoemAvs]

Not really ,Turris is his equal as a center and Stone is a better RW ,we really dont need him at an inflated cost

Laughable...

 

[Ivan13]

Not really ,Turris is his equal as a center and Stone is a better RW ,we really dont need him at an inflated cost

Inflated?

Turris is not his equal.

 

[topshelf15]

Laughable...

Whatever,Turris will score close to if not 30 goals and 60 or more points .And play as a playoff team,s 1st line center .What is laughable is the crazy overhype ,you guys lost your best player to buffalo.And are now expecting others to make up for the less than ideal return you recieved on an actual number 1 center

 

[Xspyrit]

I think Brassard would go the Avs way + Chabot + 1st with the Avs adding Beauch @50% (if the rumors are true) or a guy like Grigorenko...

So you're heavily critical of other's offers but you propose :

Duchene + Beauchemin (50%) for Brassard + Chabot + 1st

Sorry but no way Ottawa considers this.

Brassard since 2014-15 :

205 GP, 54 Goals, 88 Assists, 142 Points, + 25, 0.69 PPG

Duchene since 2014-15 :

198 GP, 66 Goals, 76 Assists, 142 Points, -20, 0.72 PPG

Not to mention advanced stats who are significantly better for Brassard. I would NOT give up Chabot and a 1st PLUS take a cap dump for that upgrade. Also, Brassard is on a pretty cheap deal, will cost 10 M$ IN TOTAL for 3 years.

Wideman/Claesson, Englund/Harpur, Lazar and a pick.
This may not make the HFBoards headlines, but I venture to guess that it will be closer to what Colorado actually get for Duchene.

Sorry but no chance.

UFA, and 33 year old Dennis wideman is an absolutely atrocious offer.

There's absolutely no logic in this proposal whatsoever.

lol even more ridiculous than the proposal

It's Chris Wideman, who's actually worse than Dennis but at least youngish. His offer is a pile of junk for a top line center/wing.

That offer doesn't make sense but let's relax here...

Chris Wideman is actually pretty good on a 3rd pairing.
Englund is a good prospect that could be a Tanev/Methot type.
Lazar is a good 4th line energy guy but can't count on him to provide much offense at the moment.
a pick : we don't know, he could have meant a 1st

Chabot, Dzingel, Francis Perron and a 2017 1st. This realistically in the ballpark of what it'd take to even get Colorado considering. I know it looks like a lot from the Senators. But it's all futures. Futures are great but they won't all pan out. We need insurance if we're losing a #1C.

You guys criticize offers you are receiving but the counters are awful. I wouldn't even give up Chabot + Dzingel for Duchene. I understand though, he was selected very high (3rd OA) and has a skillset that makes you think that he is better than he is. For example, I'm sure Avs fans value him more than Kyle Turris, but in the real world they provide about the same output and were both 3rd OA picks.

As good as Duchene is Ottawa can't afford to trade Chabot, their d core is bad now and not looking good for the future. They need Chabot to play in their top 4 as soon as next season.

Not sure where you got that...

Karlsson = best D-man in the world?
Methot = excellent defensive D-man, great skater, good passer, top-notch positionally, great hitter, etc. Great #2/3
Phaneuf = brings toughness, secondary offense, leadership, slow skater but very sound positionally, very hard to play against. Great #2/3
Ceci = young but is progressing fast in a new deployment. Plays the toughest minutes on the team. 2nd in TOI and 1st in PK TOI
Wideman = unknown but decent #5, brings some offense.
Borowiecki = very ordinary but very physical at least
Claesson = better than Borowiecki, adequate #6

Ottawa has been without it's #1 goalie for the most part and the back-up has been injured, so they had to rely on a 3rd string goalie, the same one that supposedly tanked the Montreal season last year. He played well for the most part but despite the fact that they have to rely on only 1 NHL goalie, they have good to decent defensive metrics.

CA = 19th
FA = 10th
SA = 7th
GA = 7th
SCA = 15th
HDCA = 8th

Prospects : Chabot, Englund, Jaros, Lajoie, Wolanin, Harpur, etc.

Chabot: 23 points in 18 games in the Q, WJC best D and MVP

Englund: 5 points in 33 games in Bingo, apparently been their best D

Jaros: 12 points in 29 games in the SHL, from a guy known for his hard hitting shutdown defense

Lajoie: 31 points in 47 games in the WHL, 25 coming in his last 32

Wolanin: 14 points in 22 games in the NCAA

Harpur: 12 points in 33 games in the AHL, 11 coming in his last 15

Gendron and Summers have all improved their PPG in their respective leagues as well

 

[topshelf15]

Inflated?

Turris is not his equal.

Easily he is ,please stop with the nonsense

 

[Jared Dunn]

Avs don't even have much interest in Brassard.

But they need a roster player of some kind in return.

And either Brassard or Ceci are probably the most expendable pieces with a high caphit.

In reality the Avs won't have much interest in either aside from that.


I would certainly not accept a downgrade from a 1st to a 2nd just for Brassard.

Lets just not make a deal if that would be required.

Brassard is a valuable piece, even if Colorado doesn't see a long term fit for him they could likely move him for a 1st + 2nd or something along those lines.

By that rationale, I think Chabot + 1st + 2nd is along the value lines of what you can expect for Duchene. If not less. I don't know how the price of Duchene has so quickly changed from a stud young D + 1st to half your team and your top prospects by what seems like most of the Avs fanbase

 

[JoemAvs]

So you're heavily critical of other's offers but you propose :

Duchene + Beauchemin (50%) for Brassard + Chabot + 1st

Sorry but no way Ottawa considers this.

Brassard since 2014-15 :

205 GP, 54 Goals, 88 Assists, 142 Points, + 25, 0.69 PPG

Duchene since 2014-15 :

198 GP, 66 Goals, 76 Assists, 142 Points, -20, 0.72 PPG

Not to mention advanced stats who are significantly better for Brassard. I would NOT give up Chabot and a 1st PLUS take a cap dump for that upgrade. Also, Brassard is on a pretty cheap deal, will cost 10 M$ IN TOTAL for 3 years.



Sorry but no chance.



lol even more ridiculous than the proposal

Ridiculous. Simply ridiculous.



One guy has played on the Rangers that have significantly inflated his numbers over the last few years and the other has played for the worst possession team in the league over the last 3-5 years.


One guy is a staple for the best nationalteam in the league and the other would be laughable to even consider for it.


One is a gamebreaking talent and the other one is ... Derick Brassard....

Oh and your guy is also way older.


But yeah. I am the one being ridiculous.


I probably wouldn't even do my own proposal. Brassard is basically a capdump because he is not needed in Ottawa with Duchene / Turris down the middle...

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

If Ottawa trades Chabot + for Duchene. They still lose one of Methot or Ceci to expansion. If Ottawa trades for a higher end forward it makes way more sense to include one of them in the trade.

Obviously the Avs fanbase is not sold on Ceci... I understand that, but he is 23 and he is developing and is a sure fire solid 2nd pair RD for years to come.

Ideally I would like Ceci, Brassard and Brown for Duchene. I think the value is close to fair. Brown is a top 11 pick from last year's deep draft and has 1C potential. Brassard is a proven 2C.

 

[Micklebot]

Duchene is a RW and Duchene is an upgrade on everything you have.

Must be why Ottawa's so far behind Colorado in the standings...

Duchene is a Left Handed Center. Every time I seem to watch, he's playing center and while I'm sure they've tried him on both wings as well, I can only remember seeing him on the LW from time to time, so my apologies I have a hard time buying that he's a natural RW which would be more in line with the teams needs.

As for whether he's better than anything Ottawa has, perhaps he is (though I wouldn't trade Stone for him for example) but he's certainly not enough of an upgrade to make them desperate to add him.

Nope, Ottawa would likely be far better off holding onto it's premium assets for a more significant upgrade. Duchene doesn't make then a contender now, and creates budget issues right when he needs to be re-signed. If Ottawa were to go after a Duchene level center, they'd have to ship out one of Brassard or Turris (preferably Brassard) as part of the package (in which case, adding Chabot probably pushes it into overpayment), and that doesn't address Colorado's needs.

 

[Ivan13]

Duchene is a top 10 point scorer at ES since the last lockout but he's not a #1 centre? You live and learn I guess.

 

[Liver King]

Wanna bet I watch more Sens than you do Avs?

Again I can't blame you.

But IMO anyone that considers Turris to be an equal to Duchene is heavily misinformed.


I mean there is a reason why every Sens fans and their mother want to get their hands on Duchene for cheap in here.


They wouldn't do that if Turris would be close to as good as Duchene...


EDIT:

I mean on your own board you can't even spell his name. It is Duchene. Stop it with the extra S. People that watch the Avs would know that.

And that is the end of our conversation.

Turris is close to as good as Duchene, but neither are contending 1C. Having both + Brassard would be ****ing fantastic imo. By your logic Pittsburgh wouldn't want Malkin because they have Crosby, which is laughable. I know Duchene is the better player, but I also don't think the margin is extreme as you suggest.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Brassard + Chabot + 1st for Duchene + Beauch (50%) is just absolutely brutal. No. No, god, no.

Dzingel + Ceci + 1st is my offer, I wouldn't do it if I was Sakic but I wouldn't give much more than that. Throw in a middle 6 prospect like Paul or Perron maybe

And just because you think Ceci sucks, it doesn't mean anything. He doesn't suck, and my view reflects that of NHL GMs far closer than yours does.

Oh really? Because you said so right?

As has been said numerous times by Sens fans already, Chabot+ is what it would take.


If the Sens are in a position where they cant afford to move Chabot that's perfectly understandable, but they also wont be in a position to add a player as good as Duchene either.

 

[topshelf15]

Turris is close to as good as Duchene, but neither are contending 1C. Having both + Brassard would be ****ing fantastic imo. I know Duchene is the better player, but I also don't think the margin is extreme as you suggest.

Exactly,but not by some sort of margin that would have us overpaying .Which is what COL fans are expecting us to do

 

[topshelf15]

Duchene is a top 10 point scorer at ES since the last lockout but he's not a #1 centre? You live and learn I guess.

On a team that never makes it out of the basement ,so yeah he must be one hell of a top line center.

 

[Real Smart Sens Fan]

This is not the Cody Ceci to Colorado thread. And half of your own fanbase agrees that Ceci is nothing special. So if they can see it, odds are other Gms see it as well. Especially with all the talk of him being a casualty of the expansion draft...

I don't even want that guy on my team unless he comes very cheap.


Your offer is atrocious.


If you want something in a store, you either pay the price (or atleast close to it) or you leave the store empty handed.

You don't offer 40 percent on the dollar and then bash the store owner or his products once he laughs at you.

That will get you banned from the store rather quickly.

Ceci + Dzingel + 1st is a laughable offer. Absolutely horrible.

Either Chabot ++ or stop calling.


It is Ok if you don't like it and don't want to do a deal. But please stop with those horrible counteroffers...

Ceci isn't "special", but he's 23 year old DMan who can comfortably play 20++ minutes per game insiders said during the summer that Ceci was discussed in deals for high end forwards, and the Sens chose to hold onto him instead of dealing him.

Its funny that you wouldnt want Ceci on your team. Ceci would be a huge boon to your D. With Johnson hurt, he'd be playing on your top pairing and leading you guys in minutes.

Not to mention, Chabot's value is probably only slightly higher than Cecis - the only reason we would trade Ceci is because of expansion. Ceci, Dzingel, 1st is close to Chabot ++ anyways.

You just don't know jack about Ceci, that's all it comes down to. You basing your opinion of Ceci on hot air doesn't mean anything. He's easily a top 4D, he'd easily be top 4 on your team, EVERY team in the league would give the equivalent of a 15th OV pick for him, if not more.

 

[Liver King]

Exactly,but not by some sort of margin that would have us overpaying .Which is what COL fans are expecting us to do

I don't know about that, overpayment usually is caused by the lack of market. And since Landeskog and Duchene are the only reported top 6 players available (maybe Eberle too)..I could see the prices being driven up.

For the record I wouldn't touch Chabot + 1st + for either one of them though. However that doesn't mean its impossible to get a similar deal elsewhere.

 

[JoemAvs]

Turris is close to as good as Duchene, but neither are contending 1C. Having both + Brassard would be ****ing fantastic imo. By your logic Pittsburgh wouldn't want Malkin because they have Crosby, which is laughable. I know Duchene is the better player, but I also don't think the margin is extreme as you suggest.

Duchene is not an elite #1 C but he is good enough to win if the rest of your team is good enough.

Of course he is no Malkin or Crosby. No one is. But he is a decent #1 that is amazing on ES.

Pretty sure that his numbers would skyrocket on the Sens playing in front of Karlsson on a PP that is worth a damn.

Duchene is quite a bit better than Turris. He has been a PPG player the last time the Avs resembled anything close to a good team.

Duchene is a clearly superior offensive player to ROR. It is not even close.

And ROR seems to do rather well on a bad team in the East.

Duchene is probably a 70 point+ - PPG guy on the Sens from the get-go (which IMO would make him clearly superior to Turris) and that is why he would cost Chabot ++

 

[topshelf15]

Ceci isn't "special", but he's 23 year old DMan who can comfortably play 20++ minutes per game insiders said during the summer that Ceci was discussed in deals for high end forwards, and the Sens chose to hold onto him instead of dealing him.

Its funny that you wouldnt want Ceci on your team. Ceci would be a huge boon to your D. With Johnson hurt, he'd be playing on your top pairing and leading you guys in minutes.

Not to mention, Chabot's value is probably only slightly higher than Cecis - the only reason we would trade Ceci is because of expansion. Ceci, Dzingel, 1st is close to Chabot ++ anyways.

You just don't know jack about Ceci, that's all it comes down to. You basing your opinion of Ceci on hot air doesn't mean anything. He's easily a top 4D, he'd easily be top 4 on your team, EVERY team in the league would give the equivalent of a 15th OV pick for him, if not more.

Dont bother ,far too much overhype with these two players .As they are the first two that have been made available,we shouldnt be dragged into a deal that isnt a fair one

 

[Clamshells]

In what sense are they equal?

Over the last 2.5 years, duchene scored goals at a better pace, got more points at a better pace, and does this on a team that scores significantly less.... meaning he contributes to a higher percentage of his teams offence.

Oh and he's better at face odds too.

Wait... are you gonna suggest tutors is more physical?

Ridiculous. Stop trolling.

When adding up Turris' production from the last few years, it's not really fair to add his games from Dec 5th to Feb 27 of last year, when he was clearly injured (google turris gumby injury for more info) and never should have played those games.

Looking at those numbers side by side:

|GP|G|A|P|G/82|A/82|P/82
Turris all gms|184|54|73|127|24.1|32.5|56.6
Duchene|198|66|76|142|27.3|31.5|58.8
Turris no injury gms|152|52|67|119|28.1|36.1|64.2

To be clear, "no injury gms" means I've only removed the 32 games from Dec 5th to Feb 27 of last year when he was shut down for the season. It may seem like cheating to someone who doesn't follow the Sens and understand the context, but those who followed the team last year should absolutely understand why they are taken out.

The numbers are pretty close but favour Duchene before you take out Turris' injury, but they favour Turris when you consider his injury last year. To be fair, I don't know if there is a similar block of games that Duchene should have been shut down for, so we can factor that in too.

Turris is also much more defensively responsible than Duchene, and that shouldn't even be debatable.

 

[Ivan13]

On a team that never makes it out of the basement ,so yeah he must be one hell of a top line center.

As we all know, one guy can make a good hockey team. The fact that he scores that much on a team that is completely offensively inept really hurts his argument as a true #1 centre.

You truly are showing your true colors by adding nothing but comments that are completely out of touch. I mean using your logic Karlsson isn't all that either given he can't lead Sens all that far.

 

[topshelf15]

Duchene is not an elite #1 C but he is good enough to win if the rest of your team is good enough.

Of course he is no Malkin or Crosby. No one is. But he is a decent #1 that is amazing on ES.

Pretty sure that his numbers would skyrocket on the Sens playing in front of Karlsson on a PP that is worth a damn.

Duchene is quite a bit better than Turris. He has been a PPG player the last time the Avs resembled anything close to a good team.

Duchene is a clearly superior offensive player to ROR. It is not even close.

And ROR seems to do rather well on a bad team in the East.

Duchene is probably a 70 point+ - PPG guy on the Sens from the get-go (which IMO would make him clearly superior to Turris) and that is why he would cost Chabot ++

Last season Turris was on a 70 point pace before he wrecked his ankle .this season he is on a 30 goal pace .Like i said Turris is pretty much his equal,it isnt an insult both are good players

 

[Liver King]

Duchene is not an elite #1 C but he is good enough to win if the rest of your team is good enough.

Of course he is no Malkin or Crosby. No one is. But he is a decent #1 that is amazing on ES.

Pretty sure that his numbers would skyrocket on the Sens playing in front of Karlsson.

Duchene is quite a bit better than Turris. He has been a PPG player the last time the Avs resembled anything close to a good team.

Duchene is a clearly superior offensive player to ROR. It is not even close.

And ROR seems to do rather well on a bad team in the East.

Duchene is probably a 70 point+ - PPG guy on the Sens from the get-go (which IMO would make him clearly superior to Turris) and that is why he would cost Chabot ++

theres not a chance in hell the Sens PAY for a PPG player because he 'might' be a PPG player in Ottawa. Duchene is not a PPG center. The fact that we have two other quality centres would likely hinder his minutes, as Boucher likes to spread out the offence and overplay a shutdown line.

If we traded for Duchene, a non contending #1C, I would expect 60 points and someone who can provide us a sexy top 9. With White and Brown coming soon our centre depth would be a huge strength going forward. The fact that he is a young top 6 and can play both C and W is where his value is held, he isn't a PPG superstar lol