Dreger: Matt Duchene Mega-thread:Habs, NSH, NYI inquired - Part II

[BatVader]

Juulsen and Sergachev could become the first pair for years to come, I know the Habs need a top 6 center but I'm afraid since the McDonagh for Gomez. Maybe they should keep both Juulsen and Sergachev and just develop Galchenyuk.

And kiss the next couple years of Pacioretty and Price goodbye?
At some point you have to stop waiting for the next guy in line to be ready and pull the trigger on a run.
We have prime Price, Pracioretty, and Weber. Think it's time to pull the damn trigger.
Sergachev+ for Duchene
Find a good top 4 D on the rental market and do something.

 

[Chacal667]

And kiss the next couple years of Pacioretty and Price goodbye?
At some point you have to stop waiting for the next guy in line to be ready and pull the trigger on a run.
We have prime Price, Pracioretty, and Weber. Think it's time to pull the damn trigger.
Sergachev+ for Duchene
Find a good top 4 D on the rental market and do something.

They could play for the Habs maybe next season.

 

[Flamesjustwin]

Juulsen and Sergachev could become the first pair for years to come, I know the Habs need a top 6 center but I'm afraid since the McDonagh for Gomez. Maybe they should keep both Juulsen and Sergachev and just develop Galchenyuk.

This. Markov is no spring chicken either.

 

[nomorekids]

David Poile, whose Predators scouted the Avs for 5 straight games over the last two weeks, was on 104.5 in Nashville today. He was specifically asked about the trade deadline. He said that he wants to add a forward "with pizzazz," but that "teams" are specifically targeting the Predators' top 4 defensemen, and while he will "never say never," he doesn't foresee a scenario where that makes sense.

Without saying it, he essentially stated that the asking price on Duchene is too high for him and he may go rental route instead.

 

[General Fanager]

Juulsen and Sergachev could become the first pair for years to come, I know the Habs need a top 6 center but I'm afraid since the McDonagh for Gomez. Maybe they should keep both Juulsen and Sergachev and just develop Galchenyuk.

I would be willing to make Juulsen available in a package but Sergachev is a non starter for me.

 

[General Fanager]

David Poile, whose Predators scouted the Avs for 5 straight games over the last two weeks, was on 104.5 in Nashville today. He was specifically asked about the trade deadline. He said that he wants to add a forward "with pizzazz," but that "teams" are specifically targeting the Predators' top 4 defensemen, and while he will "never say never," he doesn't foresee a scenario where that makes sense.

Without saying it, he essentially stated that the asking price on Duchene is too high for him and he may go rental route instead.

we've known that for weeks.

 

[Meeqs]

David Poile, whose Predators scouted the Avs for 5 straight games over the last two weeks, was on 104.5 in Nashville today. He was specifically asked about the trade deadline. He said that he wants to add a forward "with pizzazz," but that "teams" are specifically targeting the Predators' top 4 defensemen, and while he will "never say never," he doesn't foresee a scenario where that makes sense.

Without saying it, he essentially stated that the asking price on Duchene is too high for him and he may go rental route instead.

The Avs were never really going to move him within the Division anyways unless what they got back was absurd.

 

[Gigantor The Goalie]

David Poile, whose Predators scouted the Avs for 5 straight games over the last two weeks, was on 104.5 in Nashville today. He was specifically asked about the trade deadline. He said that he wants to add a forward "with pizzazz," but that "teams" are specifically targeting the Predators' top 4 defensemen, and while he will "never say never," he doesn't foresee a scenario where that makes sense.

Without saying it, he essentially stated that the asking price on Duchene is too high for him and he may go rental route instead.

"I don't forsee a situation where I make a fair trade" - Poile
NHL GM's are the worst whiners

 

[Bender]

People in glass houses.

And obviously having Duchene isn't a cure all, as we can see in the standings.

Don't you have anything better to do than to consistently take pot shots at the Avs and their miserable season?

Seems like someone is sad because the Avs said no to boston and their crappy offer.

 

[periferal]

Yup pretty much. Am I missing the point you are trying to make?

Well completing the logic circle, you then seem to think that Duchene is significantly better/worth more in a trade than Taylor Hall.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Well completing the logic circle, you then seem to think that Duchene is significantly better/worth more in a trade than Taylor Hall.

He's about the same value I'd say. I mean he's got at least as much value as RyJo did during the Jones trade.

 

[periferal]

He's about the same value I'd say. I mean he's got at least as much value as RyJo did during the Jones trade.

I'd agree with that, so when I hear certain Avs' fans say they need essentially Larsson + two other significant pieces for Duchene, I'm wondering if they're reaching and the people who actually make the deals (NHL GMs) know Sakic probably won't get that.

 

[Pacman33]

Well completing the logic circle, you then seem to think that Duchene is significantly better/worth more in a trade than Taylor Hall.

Id say duchene is worth at least as much. Hall isnt much better offensively. Duchene plays a much better 2 way game. Also centers are more valuable then wingers

 

[The Abusement Park]

I'd agree with that, so when I hear certain Avs' fans say they need essentially Larsson + two other significant pieces for Duchene, I'm wondering if they're reaching and the people who actually make the deals (NHL GMs) know Sakic probably won't get that.

Who has said they want Larsson++? We said we want a young top pairing potential defenseman. If thats someone like Sergachev then we definitely need adds to that, if it's someone like Hanifin than maybe there's a small plus but it may just be fine 1 for 1.

Now this is what us Avs fans has said, we only know a little about what Sakic has actually asked for but I would assume it's been more than what we've been saying.

 

[Pacman33]

I'd agree with that, so when I hear certain Avs' fans say they need essentially Larsson + two other significant pieces for Duchene, I'm wondering if they're reaching and the people who actually make the deals (NHL GMs) know Sakic probably won't get that.

I dont think we need larsson + 2. Its more that most of the discussions we have are for guys that are way more risky than larsson. Larsson was young, experienced, and had top pairing potential. Nobody being discussed has all of that going for them

 

[The Abusement Park]

I dont think we need larsson + 2. Its more that most of the discussions we have are for guys that are way more risky than larsson. Larsson was young, experienced, and had top pairing potential. Nobody being discussed has all of that going for them

Larsson was pretty established as a top pairing shutdown guy, none of the guys the Avs are targeting are that experienced or have any NHL experience.

 

[seabass45]

Forgive me if this was asked already (with 940 posts here I'm guessing it was) but what is Colorado looking for exactly? I feel like their biggest problem is depth, and obviously trading Duchene opens up another spot, but it feels like a "get as many quality pieces as you can" situation instead of making a one-for-one trade.

Isles REALLY don't want to trade Barzal and can still offer a very good package (top four D, top six forward, any first rounder). So, something like... one of Nelson and Strome, one of de Haan/Hamonic (although Hammer's value is higher), and a first. I'm guessing that isn't really appealing to Sakic though.

 

[Goulet17]

Forgive me if this was asked already (with 940 posts here I'm guessing it was) but what is Colorado looking for exactly? I feel like their biggest problem is depth, and obviously trading Duchene opens up another spot, but it feels like a "get as many quality pieces as you can" situation instead of making a one-for-one trade.

Isles REALLY don't want to trade Barzal and can still offer a very good package (top four D, top six forward, any first rounder). So, something like... one of Nelson and Strome, one of de Haan/Hamonic (although Hammer's value is higher), and a first. I'm guessing that isn't really appealing to Sakic though.

Colorado is reportedly asking for a high price, but I believe that is largely due to the fact that they have no immediate pressure to trade him. They are trying to address defensive issues by adding a younger defenseman or defensive prospects. The defenseman (younger under age 25) or defensive prospects will be the key to any deal.

The Avs are probably looking at reallocating resources to balance their future lineup.

They have Duchene and MacKinnon at center, but they also have Tyson Jost (2016 - 10th overall selection), JT Compher (2013 - 35th overall selection), and JC Beaudin (2015 - 71st overall) all coming up shortly at center. The Avs likely will select a forward with their top-five selection in this upcoming draft as that is where the value is at the moment.

This same rationale applies to Landeskog, as the Avs have Rantanen (2015 - 10th overall selection) and AJ Greer (2015 - 39th overall selection, ready to contribute in a top-6 role as power forward types.

Quantity, particularly forward pieces, are unlikely to be as attractive to the Avs if they pull the trigger on a Duchene/Landeskog trade.

 

[ThirdManIn]

"I don't forsee a situation where I make a fair trade" - Poile
NHL GM's are the worst whiners

David Poile has paid fair price in big trades, and he was asked a question. He answered it. What are you on about?

 

[tucker3434]

Forgive me if this was asked already (with 940 posts here I'm guessing it was) but what is Colorado looking for exactly? I feel like their biggest problem is depth, and obviously trading Duchene opens up another spot, but it feels like a "get as many quality pieces as you can" situation instead of making a one-for-one trade.

Isles REALLY don't want to trade Barzal and can still offer a very good package (top four D, top six forward, any first rounder). So, something like... one of Nelson and Strome, one of de Haan/Hamonic (although Hammer's value is higher), and a first. I'm guessing that isn't really appealing to Sakic though.

It wouldn't shock me if it was Hamonic plus. He'd go a long way in fixing our defense right now rather than several years down the road like most of our other options, and I'd bet Sakic wants this team winning sooner rather than later.

 

[Pacman33]

It wouldn't shock me if it was Hamonic plus. He'd go a long way in fixing our defense right now rather than several years down the road like most of our other options, and I'd bet Sakic wants this team winning sooner rather than later.

I really hope not. Hamonics a good one players but will be in his 30s by time we can compete. Sakic gas said he wants to get younger so trading dutchy for a guy whose older than him is not real smart. That being said, i have very little faith in anything the organization does anymore

 

[tucker3434]

I really hope not. Hamonics a good one players but will be in his 30s by time we can compete. Sakic gas said he wants to get younger so trading dutchy for a guy whose older than him is not real smart. That being said, i have very little faith in anything the organization does anymore

Hamonic is, what, a year older than Duchene? And defenders tend to have a later prime window than forwards. We'd also likely add someone like Strome and a 1st, which would be getting younger.

Plus, I doubt Sakic thinks this is going to be a 5 year rebuild and if he can fix the defense, he's probably right.

So, it wouldn't be my first choice, but I wouldn't hate it either.

 

[Pacman33]

Hamonic is, what, a year older than Duchene? And defenders tend to have a later prime window than forwards. We'd also likely add someone like Strome and a 1st, which would be getting younger.

Plus, I doubt Sakic thinks this is going to be a 5 year rebuild and if he can fix the defense, he's probably right.

So, it wouldn't be my first choice, but I wouldn't hate it either.

Actually not even a year. For some reason i thought he was 28. Hes 8 months older than dutchy. Im just more in the we need to blow it up camp and would prefer to get a younger guy with higher ceiling if possible. More a risk/reward guy than a safe one. Agree it wont be end of the world if we get hamonic since he will still have good value and can be moved at some point if we chose to. For me though, any package from nyi needs barzal

 

[JoemAvs]

Hamonic is, what, a year older than Duchene? And defenders tend to have a later prime window than forwards. We'd also likely add someone like Strome and a 1st, which would be getting younger.

Plus, I doubt Sakic thinks this is going to be a 5 year rebuild and if he can fix the defense, he's probably right.

So, it wouldn't be my first choice, but I wouldn't hate it either.

Hamonic is also a RHD and he is worse than EJ and does not compare offensively to Barrie.

I really don't see the need at all (aside from him being a solid defenseman in general obviously. But fit and agewise he really is not a good idea IMO) for Colorado. Really hope that won't happen or if it does that he gets immediately flipped somewhere else.

 

[seabass45]

Colorado is reportedly asking for a high price, but I believe that is largely due to the fact that they have no immediate pressure to trade him. They are trying to address defensive issues by adding a younger defenseman or defensive prospects. The defenseman (younger under age 25) or defensive prospects will be the key to any deal.

The Avs are probably looking at reallocating resources to balance their future lineup.

They have Duchene and MacKinnon at center, but they also have Tyson Jost (2016 - 10th overall selection), JT Compher (2013 - 35th overall selection), and JC Beaudin (2015 - 71st overall) all coming up shortly at center. The Avs likely will select a forward with their top-five selection in this upcoming draft as that is where the value is at the moment.

This same rationale applies to Landeskog, as the Avs have Rantanen (2015 - 10th overall selection) and AJ Greer (2015 - 39th overall selection, ready to contribute in a top-6 role as power forward types.

Quantity, particularly forward pieces, are unlikely to be as attractive to the Avs if they pull the trigger on a Duchene/Landeskog trade.

I don't know, it feels like a situation where there's SOME pressure. They're basically a lock for the best odds for #1 this year in a weaker draft than usual, there has to be some sort of feeling that "something needs to change". It might be because if this were the Isles, our fans would just be like "screw it, keep McKinnon but otherwise blow it all up", lol.