PG Canuck
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- Mar 29, 2010
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Avs44
I'd say no. It's not to do with the value, but with the fit. If the Avs trade Duchene, a rebuild / re-tool is coming. It is also been reiterated by insiders and even Sakic they want "young" defensman / prospect age defensman. Yet the centrepiece of this deal, Edler or Tanev, are 27 and 30 respectively. Granlund isn't worth all that much, I don't watch Virtanen but 9 points in 33 AHL games does not indicate "good" prospect to me (I'd say he's a project / bust with minimal value), and while that 1st could be quite nice, the key to any deal is the defensman centrepiece - and that defensman centrepiece is simply too old here to me.
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=127776019&postcount=986
I disagree with you on Granlund and Virtanen.
Granlund has become a pretty solid 3rd line player (12 goals - 20 pts - 50 games in a mostly 3rd line&PK role) and he's young on a cheap contract, I think he still has room to grow he's smart and can contribute in alot of ways. That was actually one of Bennings better trades I think even though I wasn't the biggest fan at the time.
Travis Green thinks Virtanen is playing alot better, in the NHL he had the skills to score he just wasn't playing the right way, Travis seems to think he's playing the right way. Considering the job he's done with Baertschi & Markstrom among others I'm willing to take his opinion over mere stat watching.
His natural ability didn't go away, he can still skate like the wind, hit like a truck and shoot a puck.
Perhaps one of Hutton/Tryamkin instead? We have an abundance of younger D (Hutton, Juolevi, Tryamkin, Stecher, exc). Only thing is I don't think we would move Juolevi since he was the #5 pick or Stecher because from what I gather I think Canuck brass sees him as one of the young guys to build around like Bo/Boeser/Demko/exc.
Hutton+Granlund+Virtanen+1st+something else as a cherry on top
I would throw Hutton into the deal in place of Edler/Tanev. Could try and swap Granlund/Virtanen but I'm not sure what would work for the Avs.
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=127776019&postcount=986
I disagree with you on Granlund and Virtanen.
Granlund has become a pretty solid 3rd line player (12 goals - 20 pts - 50 games in a mostly 3rd line&PK role) and he's young on a cheap contract, I think he still has room to grow he's smart and can contribute in alot of ways. That was actually one of Bennings better trades I think even though I wasn't the biggest fan at the time.
Travis Green thinks Virtanen is playing alot better, in the NHL he had the skills to score he just wasn't playing the right way, Travis seems to think he's playing the right way. Considering the job he's done with Baertschi & Markstrom among others I'm willing to take his opinion over mere stat watching.
His natural ability didn't go away, he can still skate like the wind, hit like a truck and shoot a puck.
Perhaps one of Hutton/Tryamkin instead? We have an abundance of younger D (Hutton, Juolevi, Tryamkin, Stecher, exc). Only thing is I don't think we would move Juolevi since he was the #5 pick or Stecher because from what I gather I think Canuck brass sees him as one of the young guys to build around like Bo/Boeser/Demko/exc.
Hutton+Granlund+Virtanen+1st+something else as a cherry on top
I would throw Hutton into the deal in place of Edler/Tanev. Could try and swap Granlund/Virtanen but I'm not sure what would work for the Avs.
I don't think Juolevi is moving, its possible. But I doubt it.
The Avs should try and get the best assets possible, you talk about a top pairing defenseman caliber then turn down Edler/Tanev, but atleast with them you would have a valuable asset you could look at turning into something different.
If the Avs want a good return for Duchene they need to look at all options or else they may end up holding on too long and having to settle for less, he's got 2 more years on his deal after this one and he's already 26 so I don't think his value is going to get any higher than it is now.
Granlund is getting pretty favorable minutes. He has the 6th most PK icetime, so it's not like he is some defensive stalwart that is heavily relied upon to kill penalties. He's soft along the boards, and disappears for long stretches of games. He doesn't have much value to Colorado at all, or anyone around the league. Colorado could go take a flyer on Sven Andrighetto or Tomas Jurco and get the same results, and the same style of player - inconsistent, and soft winger.
Virtanen has regressed each and every season that has passed. He has absolutely no value in the ability to land Matt Duchene. Travis Green talking Virtanen up is great and all, but Virtanen still needs to produce numbers and he simply isn't. The Avalanche don't want a project, they want an actual prospect that hasn't regressed each year since he has been drafted. Right now, Virtanen isn't even tracking well enough to be a third line player in the NHL.
As a Canucks fan, that is likely the easiest trade offer to say yes to, if Duchene is coming back the other way. Although, I'd rather not trade our first, but in a package like that, is really does need to be included to even make it enticing.
The bolded is asinine. Please try to explain how he was a worse hockey player in 2014-15 than he was last year when he was an NHL player that played well at times and contributed?? Do you honestly think the year prior he would have been able to play in the league? Not a chance.
You want Virtanen to produce numbers in the NHL not the AHL, if the short term loss is AHL points for a long term gain that sees a higher probability of a successful NHL career then I don't see the issue here other than complaining to complain.
Sven Andrighetto and Thomas Jurco were supposed to be offensive players that produced offense. Marcus Granlund is not that kind of player, these comparisons are like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, Marcus Granlund is still developing, those guys would just be filling a hole in a lineup. He's been improving, those guys have declined.
I disagree that he's soft. When you call him soft I honestly think of all the times the Sedins have been called soft. Just because your not assertive doesn't make you soft. He's not afraid to battle.
I'd offer Hutton+1st+ for Duchene. He's at the point where you can still get a good amount of value for him. This team is trending upward and with the emergence of Bo you could have a 1-2 combination that would have us set post Sedins. Its risky because of his contract but if you can get him committed its worth making a move.
The same reasoning from Blues fans trying to sell an impending UFA Shattenkirk as a centrepiece for Duchene, and Ducks fans trying to sell Vatanen (you can turn around and trade him or Barrie!). Why on earth would any GM in the league trade one of their best pieces, when the centrepiece of said return is something they have to immediately turn around and trade to get something they actually want??? It's tough enough to make one trade in todays league, let alone two back to back.
Of course - but I highly doubt the Canucks cobbling together secondary pieces is the best offer. There's no big rush here, despite fans trying to construe one. The Avs are the ones offering the 26 year old top line forward for future pieces - it's other GM's desperately wanting Duchene. Of course, they all want a highly favorable price, that's their job, but there is nobody else in the league offering the calibre of player the Avs are, at that age, for futures. The Avs aren't trying to "unload" Duchene, which is somehow the logic of many fans on here, they're holding a bidding war for the guy and seeing who bites hardest.
The same reasoning from Blues fans trying to sell an impending UFA Shattenkirk as a centrepiece for Duchene, and Ducks fans trying to sell Vatanen (you can turn around and trade him or Barrie!). Why on earth would any GM in the league trade one of their best pieces, when the centrepiece of said return is something they have to immediately turn around and trade to get something they actually want??? It's tough enough to make one trade in todays league, let alone two back to back.
Of course - but I highly doubt the Canucks cobbling together secondary pieces is the best offer. There's no big rush here, despite fans trying to construe one. The Avs are the ones offering the 26 year old top line forward for future pieces - it's other GM's desperately wanting Duchene. Of course, they all want a highly favorable price, that's their job, but there is nobody else in the league offering the calibre of player the Avs are, at that age, for futures. The Avs aren't trying to "unload" Duchene, which is somehow the logic of many fans on here, they're holding a bidding war for the guy and seeing who bites hardest.
Virtanen had a decent second half last year, but he didn't build off that and look where we are right now. He's not a piece the Avs want for Matt Duchene. Simple as that.
Granlund is the same age as Andrighetto and Jurco, so how can Granlund being the only one still "developing"? Granlund is a easily replaceable, and there are many players like him. He's not worth much for Matt Duchene, just like Virtanen.
I would say yes to that package if we are getting Duchene in an absolute heartbeat.
Which is exactly what that offer is.
With Tanev I don't think you have to. He's a year older than Duchene, signed long term and he's going to continue to be a good player for a long time. What do you expect? To throw a bunch of rookies in a lineup and have them develop the right way and be able to win games? Has no one learned anything from Florida in the 2000's and Edmonton pre-McDavid?
Well I would trade Tanev (27) or Hutton (24) for Duchene, both are good players like Duchene and you'd have them for longer than the team trading for Duchene would have Duchene.Sadly, IMO, many (and possibly a majority) on the Avs board do want to trade away everything over 23 to get rid of those who won't be in their prime once the rebuild ends and to make room for the kids to play on the NHL squad.
While things are starting to change of late, the very mention of a 26/27 year old Dman coming back for Duchene was borderline heresy even just a month ago.
Okay, Avs fans lets settle this.
Would you trade Matt Duchene for Hutton+Granlund+Virtanen+1st+something else as a cherry on top
A simple yes or no will suffice.
(Hell) No.
Hutton+Granlund+Virtanen+1st+something else as a cherry on top
I would throw Hutton into the deal in place of Edler/Tanev. Could try and swap Granlund/Virtanen but I'm not sure what would work for the Avs.
Damn, you stole one of my answers for my second question in my edit.
Question #2
Do you think Duchene could return more than that?
A simple answer of easily, maybe, or hell no would suffice.
(I'm pretty sure I know your answer, but some may need some clarification)
So, what was this offer then?
The original offer was Tanev not Hutton.
Lmao. But please, allow your endless attack on rational thinking to continue.
What wrong with Tanev+Granlund+Virtanen+likely non-playoff 1st?
That's a player of the same caliber coming back who signed long term (no risk of losing him like Duchene), 2 young cost controlled players that can help the rebuild, and a 1st that has a good chance of being a decent pick.
What's wrong with that?
Yes and most importantly Quality >> Quantity.
Avs need one centerpiece + maybe a 1st and/or prospect to balance the risk if it is a D prospect with risk coming our way.
We don't need multiple pieces we have little use for...
In my opinion the Avs have to take the best young (that is where Edler/Tanev do not fit the bill at all for a team committing to a rebuild) D (prospect) they can get in return and work from there.
Couldn't care less if 4 B prospects or multiple 3rd liners are coming our way as well.
Don't need that.
Need. Young. High-End. D.
So far your not even following along with what's really going on. So I don't see the basis. LolI'm asking Avs fans to get to the bottom of this. Not looking too good so far.