Dreger: Matt Duchene Mega-thread:Habs, NSH, NYI inquired - Part II

[24diving]

This might get it done but I hope Sakic can do better elsewhere. I like Hamonic but was not overly impressed by Barzal in WJC and a mid 1st round pick in a weaker draft. Admittedly that was only time I've seen Barzal though. Silky hands but refused to use linemate's. Maybe he'll grow out of it. If Sakic is stuck on trading Duchene (which I'm against ) I'm hoping for a deal with Habs or Canes in offseason

must have just been the game you watched, as he had 25 points in his last 10 games with only 1 goal though. If that's not using your linemates, not sure what is.

 

[Ice Crusher]

Not trying to insult anybody but Galchenyuk and Sergachev for 2 years of Duchene is beyond insane. I get why the Aves are asking for Sergachev in a package deal but to add Galchenyuk on top of that is just crazy. It's likely not true and just a rumor. I don't believe Sakic is that naive.

Can't wait to see what the actual market value will end up being. I really do think it will be somewhere around what the Pens gave for Kessel but hey, I could be wrong and another aggressive and desperate Tim Murry comes along out of nowhere. If Sakic is not willing to bend... Duchene is an Avalanche for a few years yet IMO

Why trying to persuade us again by saying what you're offering us is more than fair for 2 years of Duchene when we know we can get much better than that in value. No Sergachev. No deal. Simple as that. Sakic wants a top4D with potential of top-pairing upside. How many times do we need to mention it? If you don't want to offer Sergachev than move on. Do you really think Avs will go for your 2nd best prospect D when he can acquire your best with trading our best player in Duchene. That's why he's available in the first place...BTW did he bend for ROR. He got what we wanted in Zadorov.

 

[smirob]

Why trying to persuade us again by saying what you're offering us is more than fair for 2 years of Duchene when we know we can get much better than that in value. No Sergachev. No deal. Simple as that. Sakic wants a top4D with potential of top-pairing upside. How many times do we need to mention it? If you don't want to offer Sergachev than move on. Do you really think Avs will go for your 2nd best prospect D when he can acquire your best with trading our best player in Duchene. That's why he's available in the first place...

Yeah I agree as a habs fan. Don't want to move Sergachev in a deal for Duchene. If that's the ask let's put this to a end.

 

[BMOK33]

Duchene is a UFA after next year. It seems some people think it's after 18-19 but unless my math is wrong, a 5 year deal signed in July 2013 means he's a free agent after next year. I also think many GMs are reluctant to give up big pieces here because Duchene isn't exactly an attractive long term piece. He relies a ton on speed and athleticism unlike guys like Crosby or Tavares who rely mostly on positioning and hockey sense. I don't think Duchene is going to be overly reliable after age 31-32 and most GMs probably know this, he's also been injured a ton which can have an impact 5/6 years down the road shortening your career

 

[Ice Crusher]

Yeah I agree as a habs fan. Don't want to move Sergachev in a deal for Duchene. If that's the ask let's put this to a end.

Exactly. And I would totally understand why the Habs wouldn't do it but it's like some fans doesn't look at what really want and throw some offers that doesn't even make us better in the long run.

 

[Ice Crusher]

Duchene is a UFA after next year. It seems some people think it's after 18-19 but unless my math is wrong, a 5 year deal signed in July 2013 means he's a free agent after next year. I also think many GMs are reluctant to give up big pieces here because Duchene isn't exactly an attractive long term piece. He relies a ton on speed and athleticism unlike guys like Crosby or Tavares who rely mostly on positioning and hockey sense. I don't think Duchene is going to be overly reliable after age 31-32 and most GMs probably know this, he's also been injured a ton which can have an impact 5/6 years down the road shortening your career

Ever heard about capgeek? His contract is up after 18-19 season.

 

[Pacman33]

I understand people not wanting to give up their top prospects but realistically if your getting duchene now then your giving up a lot including players you dont want to move. Colorado could wait until the tdl before duchene becomes a free agent and they would still get a very good prospect and a 1st. If a deal does get done, id assume both teams fan would be a little upset.

 

[hockeyheadlines]

Why trying to persuade us again by saying what you're offering us is more than fair for 2 years of Duchene when we know we can get much better than that in value. No Sergachev. No deal. Simple as that. Sakic wants a top4D with potential of top-pairing upside. How many times do we need to mention it? If you don't want to offer Sergachev than move on. Do you really think Avs will go for your 2nd best prospect D when he can acquire your best with trading our best player in Duchene. That's why he's available in the first place...

How can you be certain that's Sakic's asking price? This is your opinion and you're not the GM. If negotiations are still ongoing, Sergachev is not part of the deal. So I guess we can move on.

Since Duchene is your best player, why not keep him? You can't lose if you do.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Duchene is a UFA after next year. It seems some people think it's after 18-19 but unless my math is wrong, a 5 year deal signed in July 2013 means he's a free agent after next year. I also think many GMs are reluctant to give up big pieces here because Duchene isn't exactly an attractive long term piece. He relies a ton on speed and athleticism unlike guys like Crosby or Tavares who rely mostly on positioning and hockey sense. I don't think Duchene is going to be overly reliable after age 31-32 and most GMs probably know this, he's also been injured a ton which can have an impact 5/6 years down the road shortening your career

Yeah you're math is wrong. He's a UFA in 2019. the contract extension he signed wasn't for that upcoming season.

 

[Paranoid Android]

Duchene is a UFA after next year. It seems some people think it's after 18-19 but unless my math is wrong, a 5 year deal signed in July 2013 means he's a free agent after next year. I also think many GMs are reluctant to give up big pieces here because Duchene isn't exactly an attractive long term piece. He relies a ton on speed and athleticism unlike guys like Crosby or Tavares who rely mostly on positioning and hockey sense. I don't think Duchene is going to be overly reliable after age 31-32 and most GMs probably know this, he's also been injured a ton which can have an impact 5/6 years down the road shortening your career

Duchene had a year left on his old deal when he signed his new deal. He is UFA after 18/19 season

 

[Ice Crusher]

How can you be certain that's Sakic's asking price? This is your opinion and you're not the GM. If negotiations are still ongoing, Sergachev is not part of the deal. So I guess we can move on.

Since Duchene is your best player, why not keep him? You can't lose if you do.

That's not my opinion when Sakic clearly said he's looking in a top-4D who has top-pairing potential. Seriously, put yourself at the place of Sakic...is Juulsen gonna make it done? Probably not for what he's looking for. Too many question marks compared to Sergachev's game.

Oh and yes call me crazy...but for better value, I would rather trade Mackinnon and keep Duchene. I like his game more than Mackinnon and yes, I believe he's our best player right now.

 

[Pacman33]

How can you be certain that's Sakic's asking price? This is your opinion and you're not the GM. If negotiations are still ongoing, Sergachev is not part of the deal. So I guess we can move on.

Since Duchene is your best player, why not keep him? You can't lose if you do.

While i have no clue who sakic is talking to, just because a deal isnt done doesnt mean no sergy. Hes not going to move duchene for sergy straight up. They easily could get stuck when it comes to the additional pieces. And have you watched colorado play? Yes duchene is our best player but we can have mcdavid or crosby on this team and we would still suck

 

[Habs Halifax]

It's not being naive. He can ask for whatever he wants. Why not ask for the moon? If a trade doesn't happen, Duchene remains an Av for at least 2 1/2 more years. Nobody would be upset about that.

Rumors confuse some people to think they are true after a while . Once again, I don't believe Sakic is anywhere near that naive! There is asking for the moon and then there is asking for those supposed new "earth" like planets 39 light years away. lol

 

[hockeyheadlines]

That's not my opinion when Sakic clearly said he's looking in a top-4D who has top-pairing potential. Seriously, put yourself at the place of Sakic...is Juulsen gonna make it done? Probably not for what he's looking for. Too many question marks compared to Sergachev's game.

I certainly don't think Sakic is being unrealistic in his demands. If Montreal and Colorado are still talking, I believe it would involve multiple players. That could include Sergachev and Duchene as a base.

I think both GMs know what they're doing. We'll see out it turns out. Like I said though, there's no downside to keeping Duchene in Colorado, none at all.

 

[Ice Crusher]

Rumors confuse some people to think they are true after a while . Once again, I don't believe Sakic is anywhere near that naive! There is asking for the moon and then there is asking for those supposed new "earth" like planets 39 light years away. lol

And that again is your opinion...

From our perspective, Sakic isn't asking for the moon. A prospect that has top pairing upside + 1st + cap dump (if they have to) is too much? This is more than fair for a guy that has still 2 years up his contract. Just look at what Shattenkirk asking price will be and you'll see there is no big difference and Shattenkirk is a UFA at the end of the season.

 

[Ice Crusher]

I certainly don't think Sakic is being unrealistic in his demands. If Montreal and Colorado are still talking, I believe it would involve multiple players. That could include Sergachev and Duchene as a base.

I think both GMs know what they're doing. We'll see out it turns out. Like I said though, there's no downside to keeping Duchene in Colorado, none at all.

I would gladly keep him long term if Avs don't get what they really need.

 

[GrandmaSlices51631]

And that again is your opinion...

From our perspective, Sakic isn't asking for the moon. A prospect that has top pairing upside + 1st + cap dump (if they have to) is too much? This is more than fair for a guy that has still 2 years up his contract. Just look at what Shattenkirk asking price will be and you'll see there is no big difference and Shattenkirk is a UFA at the end of the season.

In what world can Barzal or Pulock be considered a "Cap dump"?

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

Said this in another thread with a Habs proposal.

I think Montreal fans need to realize the Avalanche do not want to get rid of Matt Duchene. The Avs are just that bad they desperately need D help and Duchene is the most valuable piece they are willing to move.

In a perfect world, some Avs prospect will come up and be incredible and their D would look like this next season. And the Avs wouldn't have to move Duchene and draft Patrick and boom dynasty time!

E Johnson - Barrie
Zadorov - Amazing Prospect out of nowhere
Raberio - Tyutin
Bigra

 

[Ice Crusher]

In what world can Barzal or Pulock be considered a "Cap dump"?

Where did you see I considered Barzal or Pulock a cap dump...

On top of that...does Hamonic have top-pairing upside. No but I would gladly have him on my team in a deal revolving Duchene. Hamonic + 1st + prospect.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Said this in another thread with a Habs proposal.

I think Montreal fans need to realize the Avalanche do not want to get rid of Matt Duchene. The Avs are just that bad they desperately need D help and Duchene is the most valuable piece they are willing to move.

In a perfect world, some Avs prospect will come up and be incredible and their D would look like this next season. And the Avs wouldn't have to move Duchene and draft Patrick and boom dynasty time!

E Johnson - Barrie
Zadorov - Amazing Prospect out of nowhere
Raberio - Tyutin
Bigra

I think that's why there hasn't been any movement on him, Colorado isn't that desperate to trade him, and teams aren't all that desperate to get him.

Duchene is a "nice" player, he could certainly help a team like Montreal out but he doesn't launch them into contender status. We'd take him if the price is right but we can't afford to overpay for him, same goes for Colorado, they'd trade him if the price is right but they can't afford to let him go for nothing.

 

[islesfan3913]

I'm sure Isles fans will hate this, but I don't want to give up Hamonic at all. What do Avs fans think if this?

de Haan, Pulock, Dal Colle, 1st round pick for Duchene, Tyutin and a 3rd

I have no idea how well Tyutin actually is anymore but the Isles would need a defenseman back here. Avs get the left handed defenseman they need and a right handed one to solidify their right side as well as a solid left wing prospect and a pick. This would be hard for the Isles to do since Hammer is on IR, but I feel like it gives both teams what they need and want while the value remains.

 

[smirob]

As much as I'd like Duchene, or Landeskog for that matter, on the habs...the Isles and/or Ducks are a much better trade partner imo.

 

[Pacman33]

I'm sure Isles fans will hate this, but I don't want to give up Hamonic at all. What do Avs fans think if this?

de Haan, Pulock, Dal Colle, 1st round pick for Duchene, Tyutin and a 3rd

I have no idea how well Tyutin actually is anymore but the Isles would need a defenseman back here. Avs get the left handed defenseman they need and a right handed one to solidify their right side as well as a solid left wing prospect and a pick. This would be hard for the Isles to do since Hammer is on IR, but I feel like it gives both teams what they need and want while the value remains.

Dont see any way isles get him without hamonic or barzal. It very likely will take both

 

[Habs Halifax]

Duchene is a UFA after next year. It seems some people think it's after 18-19 but unless my math is wrong, a 5 year deal signed in July 2013 means he's a free agent after next year. I also think many GMs are reluctant to give up big pieces here because Duchene isn't exactly an attractive long term piece. He relies a ton on speed and athleticism unlike guys like Crosby or Tavares who rely mostly on positioning and hockey sense. I don't think Duchene is going to be overly reliable after age 31-32 and most GMs probably know this, he's also been injured a ton which can have an impact 5/6 years down the road shortening your career

THIS! I get why Sakic is setting the price high and why some Aves fans are even setting the price even higher than that but truth be told over time. Duchene is good and is a proven top 25 to 30 center in the NHL but he's near UFA and his next contract will be signed when he is 29 to ?. That means any team acquiring Duchene this year is guaranteed 3 playoffs and then it's a 50/50 chance he resigns or goes to UFA. Plus in his next contract he will be exiting his prime years and entering his decline year. For a player like Duchene and how great he is because of his speed, decline issues are a concern because if (I said if) he looses his speed, he becomes very average at best! Think what happen to Gomez once he lost his speed in his early 30's.

I think Sakic is set up to fail on this trade. He's not getting the value that has "ballooned" to an unresonable level and IF he trades Duchene for market price... I feel Aves fans are going to have his head! It's best they keep him and try to re sign him. Then if they have extra depth at center, use those assets to fill the holes.

 

[GrandmaSlices51631]

Where did you see I considered Barzal or Pulock a cap dump...

On top of that...does Hamonic have top-pairing upside. No but I would gladly have him on my team in a deal revolving Duchene. Hamonic + 1st + prospect.

Considering both pieces have been mentioned as nauseum in trade proposals on this forum and in other outlets, it's implied.

The really question is why I took your statement without a grain of salt. Nothing points to the fact that the Avs are looking to take on a "cap dump" as the third piece in a deal for Duchene.

GMs are laughing at Sakics ransom, if they had the opportunity to dump salary, I don't think the price would be regarded as so high.